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In Season 2017-18 Talk

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2 hours ago, OBXer said:

But if you can only get another potential top 6 center and no way to add another scorer except from a Chex I would say you are better off not trading a talent like Skinner.

I might be the biggest fan of Skinner's unique offensive skill set, and when you look at his two years prior to this, he absolutely raised the level of his D game too. But I don't think he comes back, while still in this organization, from whatever caused the brain trust to (1) deny him the captaincy, and (2) play him with fourth-line talent all year.

 

I totally take your point about not throwing away the work on the rebuild to this point. But Skinner is not a part of that work. The pieces of that who are keepers (IMO) are Aho, TT, Slavin, Pesce, TVR, Willy, McGinn, Lindholm, Fleury, and Nordstrom. Obviously Jordan stays. That's eleven skaters-- two-thirds of the roster. But I think we're at a place now where Skinner, Faulk, and Hanifin are more valuable for what they can bring back than by us hoping they can recover from their awful seasons. With Skinner especially, it pains me to say that.

 

Rask, meanwhile, is destined to become the best-paid 4C in the league. Cam needs to be retired. If I see him in our crease again next year I will cut on myself. Same for Darling; he must be bought out if he can't be moved. Ryan and PDG must be moved out for the next wave of prospects.

 

On the whole replacing Skinner's (or any else's) points thing: a 1C more than does so, but beyond that, the team dynamic itself, even without a guy of his level coming back, will take care of it. Worrying about points lost/gained on a one-for-one, player-by-player basis completely ignores that dynamic, which is what team sports is all about.

 

The key problem remains what it has been since 2011: Goaltending. Goaltending. Goaltending.   

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I want to echo Top here. The goaltending is the biggest problem BY FAR. There is one move that likely cost Francis and maybe Peters his job: signing Scott Darling. It's really unfairest to Peters, and if there is any sense of fairness, he should not have to take the fall for that. The way it works and with the contract he was given, Peters really had no choice but to keep rolling him out there and hope. Peters refuses to throw Darling under the bus (see Eddie Lack), and flatly lies about it to the media.

 

"Is there a point where it's on Scott?" "No, no, we have to be better in front of him." Well, yes, technically true. The team would have to be better if I were in goal too. Like never allow a single shot better. But really? Putting it back on the team? Only choice really, but also a lie, well huge misdirection at least.

 

Scott Darling has been an epic fail. Look, I was slobbering over him as much as anyone. I thought Francis' move to get his negotiating rights and signing him was the beginning of our glory, and frankly and act of genius. I guess maybe I should withdraw my application for GM now that I think about it...but back to what actually happened: Darling has stunk out loud. Like epic-ally bad. He is literally the worst goalie in the NHL including back ups. And by FAR has the most starts of a horridly bad goalie. Not only has he been bad, but we have to keep playing him long past reasonable. And at some point the team just can't keep pretending he isn't killing them. At some point it's just too much futility.

 

As I think on it more, and I and others have made this point before, but it bears repeating, I think that the trade deadline most blatant fail wasn't failing to get another forward, the unforgivable fail was not getting a goalie that isn't embarrassingly bad to at least give this team a shot. My guess is that Skinner, for one, on top of the frustration of being in Peter's dog house and having to play with AHL talent, realized that this team really had zero chance with Mongo and Ward as our tandem. He should not have sealed the envelope and mailed it in, but at some level I get it. Darling's contract was worth sacrificing the season for? Well if the GM doesn't care, why should I? Not right, but understandable at some level.

 

Again, Ward is really only "good" by comparison. Ward is #49/57 NHL goalies in save percentage. Yet stunningly, absolutely stunningly, the Canes are 19-13-4 in front of the #49 goalie in the league. So, we have #49 and #57. This is roughly what we had last year. I'm not sure that the Penguins would be a playoff team with these goalies, and I'm SURE we would be if we had a legit top 15 goalie.

 

We need a 1C. Rask has been a disaster, Ryan has finally regressed to his level, and frankly Lindholm has also come up short of expectations. Skinner has been on cruise control for around 20 games. But none of it comes even close to our ineptitude in goal. Until that is fixed, nothing else matters, and that includes the coach.

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13 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

Keepers - TT, Aho, Staal, Slavin, Williams.

 

Everybody else should be available in transactions to make the team better.  

I agree with that as the tightest no trade core. I'd keep Pesce too, but after that, we should be open for business.

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3 hours ago, Californiahurricane said:

I think Darling can at least back up here. I think we need to move on from Ward though. Part of me wonders whether Ward’s presence here messed with Darling’s head. Maybe he’s a different guy without having a guy who’s been the number one here for twelve years peering over his shoulder waiting to reclaim the role.

 

 

Possibly, but if that's the case, it's even more reason to ship him off to the frozen tundra.  Friendly competition should bring out the best in a goaltender, not turn him into a nervous sieve.  If he can't take having another goaltender on the bench who could make him dispensable, perhaps he's not cut out for this line of work after all.

 

Edited by realmdrakkar
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Getting Darling last year was a bold, seemingly high percentage move. Rolling Darling out there again next year would be a bold, seemingly insanely low percentage move. Doesn't mean it can't work, but you better have a pretty good second option when it doesn't.

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Out of Darling, Faulk and Rask if I had to pick a guy to keep and roll the dice on I'd pick Rask. I think he can rebound, I think his +/- managing to stay above the - even though it's not a fan favorite stat should say at least a little something about him. He's not getting the scoring job done but he's also not outright resulting in losses either.

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If we can land a legitimate #1, I see Ward as an ideal backup for the Canes.  He's proven he can hold down the fort (or better) in that role, and should be even cheaper on his next contract.  If we can do better, great, but given our history in bringing in goalies, I'd be fine with retaining Ward, as a backup. while we focus on a true #1.

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My fear is that we missed our chance to acquire top forwards, at least via trade.  As I've said to death, I think the time to acquire top forwards was within the last 2 years.  I can't see too many hockey trades available where teams are either willing or in position to give away the piece that we want.  O'Reilly?  Sign me up.  Zibanejad?  Possibly.  Our best bet is UFA.  Outside of Tavares, I'm not in love with any UFA, although there are some decent options.

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14 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

 

Initial reaction: Ruh Roh

On second thought: does it really make a difference?

After even more reflection: would they have been out for the remainder if those games mattered, or is this perhaps a chance to audition Chex without exposing anyone to waivers?

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3 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

I'd bet both of those players need off season surgery and explains the move.  Rask has had shoulder issues and surgery already.

 

Might as well get a jump on recovery on those guys.

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rem, on your discussion on Darling, not that I'm disagreeing with you, but please explain to me the dichotomy, as a few others have pointed to, of how this player plays well enough in another system to be viewed by the majority on here as a goalie savior(likely similar to how Francis saw him), then come to Carolina and lose it completely. That just doesn't compute to me, and further in Francis' defense I suppose, how could he have anticipated this abject failure? I suppose one could reason that RF's failure was not in the attempt but rather in: 1.Giving him that ham stringing contract, or 2.Not at some point when things were going south, not ATTEMPTING to rectify it? Those 2 asides nevertheless, why this Jeckyll and Hyde  picture?

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5 hours ago, legend-1 said:

Out of Darling, Faulk and Rask if I had to pick a guy to keep and roll the dice on I'd pick Rask. I think he can rebound, I think his +/- managing to stay above the - even though it's not a fan favorite stat should say at least a little something about him. He's not getting the scoring job done but he's also not outright resulting in losses either.

And apparently he has been playing injured as he’s been shut down for the year. Then again, being top man on that list is not very inspiring.

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11 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

I'm kind of done with the 'trading for draft picks' thing, but i'd be dangling Darling & Kruger out there and seeing if i can get a 4th for the pair.  Addition by subtraction, nothing more, and it gives the new GM a boatload of money to spend.

 

I think Dahlbeck has held his own as well and he isn't the first defenseman on this team i'd be looking to ship off, but he's not the last either.  Easily replaceable - i can take him or leave him, really.

Darling is untradeable. Autocorrect doesn’t think that’s a word. But anyway, our new GM deserves a reward if we trade him for an ECHL player and retain 1/2 salary. Of course, there apparently were other teams interested in him last year. Maybe someone believes he just caught the Canes goalie curse and can be salvaged, but even at half price, do you take him on for 3 more years?

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4 minutes ago, canes2017 said:

"Miss the remainder of season.."

 

 

Just seeing this.  Good - let them heal and be ready for next season.  And in the meantime, audition.

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25 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

Just seeing this.  Good - let them heal and be ready for next season.  And in the meantime, audition.

 

Or..

 

Just Jealous of a potential playoff spot( what is that?) for the checkers ..and want to stop that momentum .. Just kidding :) 

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10 minutes ago, canes2017 said:

 

Or..

 

Just Jealous of a potential playoff spot( what is that?) for the checkers ..and want to stop that momentum .. Just kidding :) 

 

 

If they really want to stop the momentum, all they have to do is flip Darling for Nedl and ba-dump-bump!

 

I'd still love to see that happen, of course.  Worst-case scenario is the Canes put Darling on waivers to send him down and nobody takes him...

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17 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

I dunno if teams just don't do it or if you can't do it but I'm not sure you can waive a guy after the deadline.

That's a good question legend, and I specifically don't know the direct answer. What I am aware of, as undoubtedly you also know, is that there's a specified period to constitute the final AHL roster for playoffs, that's why we have always had to send down any player on our team who might be needed for a Checkers run, up to a certain number of course, if we intend for them to play in Checkers playoffs? That deadline likely has passed, so even if waivers are allowed over this period, and I wish someone with knowledge of those specifics would weigh in, Darling passing thru them would be useless if the intent is for him to play some more?

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Kjun,

 

I have no Earthly idea why seemingly good back-ups come here to die. Lack had numbers almost as good as Darling's. But seeing is believing on Darling (and Lack). These guys looked the part of over-matched goalie too. Darling's uber soft goals, inability to handle pucks in his skates, etc, early on were mostly not the result of D breakdowns most of the year. The D breakdowns are far worse now that the team has let down. The only weirdly reassuring thing is that these same goalies leave here and tend to keep stinking. It's weirdly reassuring in the way that being in a long line, it is nice to see the line grow behind you. Doesn't affect you at all, but still somehow nice to see.

 

If we figure out the goalie thing, we are 90% there to the playoffs though.

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