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In Season 2017-18 Talk

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On Pesce and Rask out.

 

I hesitate to go there, but when did Rask get hurt? Has he been playing hurt for a long time? I've always wondered what happened to that dynamic Rask of early two seasons ago. My guess is that teams took away his time and space, and he started focusing on D, but could his shoulder have been part of it this long? I will say this on Rask's plus/minus. Rask is a 100% defense first center now. If there is any slight question, he peels back and heads for the D zone. But there has to be a balance, and he is not giving enough over to the offense. Some of this could be because he is slow. In the end, if possible, I still move Rask, if for no other reason than his utter lack of speed, which, BTW might be why he has to turn and go back to the D zone so early in plays.

 

Pesce, I wonder the same thing in terms of how long he's been playing with this. In his case, the good is that we finally get to see McKeown.

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The one thing I am glad about, is getting to see some Checkers. This notion that Francis had that none of our AHL players were ready, is one of the few infuriating things about him. In fact that, and his utter inability to pull of a trade were about the only two big ones. We have two of the leading scorers in the AHL, and one of them, a rookie, is also a plus 18. Then, in McKeown, we have a RHD who was supposedly NHL ready two seasons ago, who has only put up 23 points and a plus 35. Not ready though?

 

The only downside about bringing these guys up is that the team is in melt down mode. But still probably better to get that NHL speed at the end. It will still help them trying to make the team next year.

 

And for me, and I know I've said it before, but at least at this point, the RHD replacement for Faulk is McKeown. We need to see him. If he is solid, it will make moving Faulk a bit easier to take.

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29 minutes ago, remkin said:

On Pesce and Rask out.

 

I hesitate to go there, but when did Rask get hurt? Has he been playing hurt for a long time? I've always wondered what happened to that dynamic Rask of early two seasons ago. My guess is that teams took away his time and space, and he started focusing on D, but could his shoulder have been part of it this long? I will say this on Rask's plus/minus. Rask is a 100% defense first center now. If there is any slight question, he peels back and heads for the D zone. But there has to be a balance, and he is not giving enough over to the offense. Some of this could be because he is slow. In the end, if possible, I still move Rask, if for no other reason than his utter lack of speed, which, BTW might be why he has to turn and go back to the D zone so early in plays.

 

Pesce, I wonder the same thing in terms of how long he's been playing with this. In his case, the good is that we finally get to see McKeown.

 

My guess?  Failed original surgery.  It would fit.  Or, a fast re-injure.  I'm glad any surgery will be done sooner than later.  Having had minor back surgery, I didn't feel good for 9 months, and then really myself at about month 15.  (BTW, same problem with E.Staal and his injury, but I digress...)

 

Again, I'm just guessing.  But when they announce "He had successful surgery," they mean he didn't die and isn't in the coroner's lab.  (Perhaps our resident pathologist can explain.)   That's one definition of success.  The other is, "Is the pain and/or impairment gone without reduction of strength?"  That answer isn't known for 6 or 12 months in many cases.

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Rem, I wonder if Rask's shoulder injury is possibly an issue with the previous surgery. Did it not heal correctly, or did he somehow reinjure it? Could the reason he pulls back on D so quickly be the result of the shoulder. He knows his shot is weak atm and/or it hurts too much when he does shoot?

I don't have any answers, so I will have to trust the brain trust to figure it out. If they think Rask is salvageable and decide to keep him, then so be it. If they can't get anything for him, then roll him out as a defensive 3rd or 4th liner. He may not win us any games, but he won't lose any for us either.

As for McKeown, I am hoping he looks good. I think he gives us a good shot of making Faulk 100% replaceable without worrying about trade or UFA. If we land a veteran RHD, even better..

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"Both have been playing with it (nagging injury) for quite a while." BP

 

Makes me wonder just how many weeks or even months Peters is talking about and though I have no idea what level of injury each of them started out with, waiting until you need surgery seems like a pretty dumb idea. It's not like playing NHL games night in and night out is known to help ligaments/muscles heal. 

 

I could see playing or replacing a banged up Pesce being a tough call since he is an important part of our D but Rask should have been an easy call to make.  

 

 

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I guess what we're all really wondering: if he gets it fixed again will he be a substantially better player afterwards?

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30 minutes ago, Whaler1 said:

I could see playing or replacing a banged up Pesce being a tough call since he is an important part of our D but Rask should have been an easy call to make.  

 

 

Yeah, this.  What, Rask is so money that having him out there playing injured was preferable to giving Foegele's 26-16-42 and +18 a shot in Raleigh?

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2 hours ago, wxray1 said:

 

My guess?  Failed original surgery.  It would fit.  Or, a fast re-injure.  I'm glad any surgery will be done sooner than later.  Having had minor back surgery, I didn't feel good for 9 months, and then really myself at about month 15.  (BTW, same problem with E.Staal and his injury, but I digress...)

 

Again, I'm just guessing.  But when they announce "He had successful surgery," they mean he didn't die and isn't in the coroner's lab.  (Perhaps our resident pathologist can explain.)   That's one definition of success.  The other is, "Is the pain and/or impairment gone without reduction of strength?"  That answer isn't known for 6 or 12 months in many cases.

Slight correction, Medical Examiner/Forensic Pathologist's lab in this state ( technically OCME facility). Coroner's lab in several others maybe? Haha

Edited by KJUNKANE

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20 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Waddell on wralSPORTSfan

 

 

Waddell trying to not make politically incorrect answers but boy did he get tongue tied on the goalie situation. Way he answered it both goalies are coming back and we all know that's a load of bologna. Then he fixed...ish his answer and made it sound like Cam's coming back and Scott might just be in the AHL? I dunno, I kinda chuckled cause whose Waddell to say anything about the situation.

 

Interesting to officially hear what we all knew though, Darling came to us out of shape.

Edited by legend-1

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3 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

Interesting to officially hear what we all knew though

 

That was my take but interesting that Waddell came right out and said it. He also mentioned trade when he was talking goalies. Is it the intent to go out and get a #1 in the off-season and let Ward and Darling fight it out for the backup. I'm not sure.

I'm still not sure about Peters sticking but it sure sounded like he could get the benefit of the doubt.

One thing is sure if Waddell is in the know and it sounds like he is it is going to be a very interesting off-season

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2 hours ago, legend-1 said:

 

Waddell trying to not make politically incorrect answers but boy did he get tongue tied on the goalie situation. Way he answered it both goalies are coming back and we all know that's a load of bologna. Then he fixed...ish his answer and made it sound like Cam's coming back and Scott might just be in the AHL? I dunno, I kinda chuckled cause whose Waddell to say anything about the situation.

 

Interesting to officially hear what we all knew though, Darling came to us out of shape.

Not a Waddell fan but it was an interesting interview. I've said since the first month of the season that Darling was out of shape. That speaks volumes for a guy who was getting his first shot as a N01. NHL goalie. Coming into camp out of shape, not acceptable. I read the interview as us getting another goalie and having them fight it out in pre season. It also sounded like we were not giving up on Scott and the AHL could be an option. I find this hard to believe for the long term based on his salary. Perhaps a short stint in Charlotte if he doesn't fair well in pre season to see if he can improve. If not it's buyout time. I think we all wanted to send him to Charlotte this year. Good to hear that they realize we can't come back with the same team. Mr. Obvious speaks. I think we have to get a new GM before the decision is made on Peters. 

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I'm not so sure coming back with mostly the same team would have been such an obvious need if Francis had  stayed on. I still think that overall he did a pretty good job with the early phases of the rebuild, but in terms of trades its like he stood at the plate for 4 years and never even took a swing.

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16 minutes ago, remkin said:

its like he stood at the plate for 4 years and never even took a swing.

 

He took at least one swing and a miss. I won't vilify  Francis. All the Chex most on here are looking at as our saviors are Francis moves. I think he was a patient GM with a plan but failed to correctly read the mood including that of his new owner for a bold move. When Peters called him out earlier this season I  thought one would not be back. I think Dundon choose Peters.

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4 hours ago, OBXer said:

 

He took at least one swing and a miss. I won't vilify  Francis. All the Chex most on here are looking at as our saviors are Francis moves. I think he was a patient GM with a plan but failed to correctly read the mood including that of his new owner for a bold move. When Peters called him out earlier this season I  thought one would not be back. I think Dundon choose Peters.

Criticism about one area of his tenure isn't really vilification. I did give him credit for the early part of the plan. But he never saw a real trade he liked enough to do it. O for 4 years. I do like what he built, but he waited too long to make the moves for this year, and year 9 w/ no playoffs is just too long. I actually like the guy a lot both as a GM, player and person. But as I laid out money for my 9th year of season tickets with no playoffs, I just do not like that he did not do more to make this year's team better when it was clear that it was within reach.

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I am not looking to blame RFfor anything. If you take TD at face value, he doesn't either. The two of them just don't work the same way and have trouble communicating. Why any of us were shocked that RF didn't make a move at the deadline is a mystery to me. Wasn't everyone convinced the apparent argument between Jordan and Francis was because he was upset about Eric being traded because he came here to play with his brother. And didn't Francis later say that Jordan was upset because he couldn't understand why we were trading assets, that weakened us, while the team was in the middle of a good push for the playoffs.

 

Ron Francis went to the plate several times over 4 years and he may not have been swinging a lot, definitely not for the fences, but he definitely laid downs some bunts and got some walks and then stole a couple bases. The one time he swung for the fences everyone thought he had just hit a grand slam, but it didn't make it.

 

I would say we have made 0 trade acquisitions over the last few years as far as players go. We traded to acquire potential, some really good potential in Turbo, but just potential. Added to that we have only signed 2 players through FA, I consider Darling a signing as we traded for his rights. Williams is our only real successful player acquisition. All the other acquisitions we have made have been for role players/place holders until our potential developed. But that is exactly how Ron Francis told us he wanted to build this team.

 

Pointing all this out isn't me trying to vilify anyone. Just stating the facts as I see them.

And rambling as I am worn out from a long day and Can't sleep....?

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7 hours ago, DevildogKodi said:

Pointing all this out isn't me trying to vilify anyone

 

I was speaking for myself. I don't think most here will vilify Francis. Your point of view is well stated.

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On 3/22/2018 at 1:37 PM, Whaler1 said:

"Both have been playing with it (nagging injury) for quite a while." BP

 

Makes me wonder just how many weeks or even months Peters is talking about and though I have no idea what level of injury each of them started out with, waiting until you need surgery seems like a pretty dumb idea. It's not like playing NHL games night in and night out is known to help ligaments/muscles heal. 

 

I could see playing or replacing a banged up Pesce being a tough call since he is an important part of our D but Rask should have been an easy call to make.  

This feels like Dundon's influence to me. He is protecting his assets. When the Canes still had any prayer, they played--b/c that's what hockey players do. After the loss to EDM nothing short of divine intervention gets it done. Still, here's hoping:

 

 

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So Aho has moved up to .87 ppg, good for #48 forward in the NHL (using a cut off of 20 games played). Aho is #39 in goals.

TT is now at .82 ppg, good for #54 (and tied for #55 in goals).

 

These are solid first line numbers for both guys. To give Francis his due, picking up TT was a master move, and drafting Aho in the second round was also pretty amazing.

 

Just think how good those two would look on a line with the #14 goal/ #20 points guy in the middle: JT.

 

And those two could easily push that up next year and blow it out if they did play with a true 1C..

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