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In Season 2017-18 Talk

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I will say the guys who had the puck should have scored. Aho was TIRED and I give him some slack.  A lengthy defensive zone shift then mustering everything he had for the breakaway.  

 

It was all on Rask for not scoring, no pass for him.  

 

It is fun to imagine if it had been Skinner in Rask’s place.  There has to be a good reason for him not getting a shot at aleast the end if the OT. If it was fear of a turnover or bad defense then the end of the OT should minimize the risk.

 

 I guess Ill grab some of that context too so I can find out.

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I don't know if you guys at PNC heard it, but in the post game interview Peters was hot about the Canes giving up the tying goal (his tone reminded me of his comment to Lack last year, even if he didn't use the same word :o).  He specifically said something about not needing to score another goal in order to win, that 3 is enough in the NHL. Matter of fact, I'm a bit concerned because the way he sounded it wouldn't surprise me if he just packs the team in around our goal late in games we lead, and we know how that often ends up if you do it too early.

Edited by LakeLivin

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I’m always reminded of Lavy in 05/06 who kept the peddle to the metal the entire game to force the other team to play defense instead of being able to concentrate entirely on offense. Obviously that mindset had limitations too but it worked well for that roster. 

Edited by raleighcaniac

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I agree and disagree with your assessments LakeLivin.

 

We're just too inconsistent, offensively and defensively.  I have to pull a BlueDevil58 and place the blame so far squarely on Bill Peters, and to an almost equal extent, sir Ron Francis.  I put our inconsistency on BP because out of all the buzz about the players we've added throughout the last couple years (TT, Aho, Williams), this team has not improved whatsoever on offense.  Most games we look like a hot mess in the offensive zone, with shotty passing, lack of net-crashing, terrible entries, etc.  I've heard Peters on multiple occasions say when we go through offensive spells how he can't force players to crash the net, well I say that's bs.  Part of his job as a coach is to implement a successful offensive strategy.  He should be hammering it in these guy's head during practices, and during the game time.  And if guys don't want to do the right things, then you take away ice time like he stated when he first joined the team.  Teams like Toronto, Tampa, Chicago, Pittsburgh have the capability to mask their weaknesses through their strengths.  Our strength is our defense, but we can't hang our hats on it because of the mediocre goaltending and the occasional breakdowns.  Going forward, unless this team finds a magical switch, I feel that we're always going to be inconsistent under this regime.  We're going to lose more games we should win, and win occasional games we should lose.

 

I am starting to grow weary on RF.  My knock on him is he's played small ball the past 4 or 5 seasons now, and is unwilling to make a big move.  I'm not going to bash Darling too soon yet, mainly because a move in net was necessary.  And although I had a specific preference between the available goalies, I was fine we the Darling signing.  Having said that, I really wish we would've gone after the more proven goalie in Ben Bishop.  I feel like if we were really serious about making a playoff push this season, then going with the more proven goalie was the route to take.

 

As far as offense goes, this team has lacked finishers and a #1 center for awhile now.  I feel that there was opportunities to correct these areas and they were not done.  I also feel like RF is relying to heavily on analytics that imo draw false conclusions on the issues of this team.  We did need a new goalie, a better bottom forward and defensive pairing, and more scoring.  He did those things, but I thought the particular moves he made were not enough, and was not all the teams core needs.  Lastly, I thought it was clear as day we needed a new voice on the coaching staff as far as forwards/offense/PP goes.  Nothing was done, and our offense is still suffering.  I also feel like BP should've spoke up about it, and should be on the hot seat.

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4 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

I haven’t provided a reason for why BP kept the second hottest scorer in the league going back to the midpoint of last season off the ice in the last 10 minutes of the game. I call it poor coaching. Skinner has almost a quarter of the teams goal. 

 

4 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

rc, You make it sound like BP totally squandered the chance to win in overtime by leaving Jeff Skinner on the bench.  Seriously, at least grab some context off the shelf on your way to checkout.  The player's on the ice kept possession most of the OT period and manufactured chance after chance to bury  the game.  That's on them not on Peters.

 

You both are right. Yes, the failure of the players on ice during overtime is on them. Either Rask or Aho should have scored on their breakaways or we should have produced a goal during our extended time of possession. But BP's keeping "the second hottest scorer in the league" out of the overtime also is highly questionable and indeed could have contributed to the loss.

 

Skinner, Ryan, and Kuok were on the ice each time Anaheim scored during regulation. They did not return to the ice after Anaheim's third goal, which suggests that BP sat them down because they were -3. But the failures that led to those three goals were not just on the forwards—Faulk and Hanifin were on the ice for the first two goals as well, and the second goal was scored because Faulk was out of position (again). 

 

But here's where the decision to bench Skinner during OT was pretty lame, in my view (you may disagree). Sit the line down for the last 5 minutes after it's -3. Okay, I get that. Message delivered by end of regulation. Why keep Skinner off ice during OT? Why does BP continue to punish him individually (and the team ultimately), especially after BP has played him the entire game on a line with two players who belong in the AHL?

 

We'll never know, but I would much rather have had Skinner on those breakaways than Rask or a tired Aho.    

Edited by spyglass88

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10 hours ago, PenaltyKiller17 said:

Having said that, I really wish we would've gone after the more proven goalie in Ben Bishop.  I feel like if we were really serious about making a playoff push this season, then going with the more proven goalie was the route to take.

 

 

I agree with some of what you said, but this is the part i question the most.  You speak as if Bishop were laid on a platter for Francis but he said 'no thanks, i'd rather have Darling'.  Surprisingly there is the possibility, however slight, that Francis can't get everyone he wants and that he may go for a player who tells him to jump in a lake.  Fault Francis for not putting together a team that would attract some of those players, perhaps, but i can't buy into Francis for not even trying when none of us know how many phone calls might have been made to other goaltenders (' agents).

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Shipachyov  balked again at reporting to the AHL.  Just saying from earlier conversations he is best left alone. We aren't that desperate IMO

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4 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Shipachyov  balked again at reporting to the AHL.  Just saying from earlier conversations he is best left alone. We aren't that desperate IMO

 

If we passing through re-entry waivers I’d be good with the low dollar risk. Since we’d still incur 7 million risk, Ill pass. I’d do it if LV would retain a bunch of salary.  Again fairly low risk.  

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Skinner has this year and 2018-19 left before he becomes a UFA. He's a Toronto homey, goes back every off season and now is seeing the Leafs making measurable strides with a full barn every game in a town that worships any player wearing a Leafs crest. If the Canes don't pick it up and become a playoff team this year and next with measurable improvement it would be an easy decision for him to put on a Leafs sweater. He'll pay taxes out the go-go but he will also have a contract in the 6-7m range if he keeps scoring. Getting benched the last 5 minutes of regulation, then 5 minutes of OT and not being shooter probably doesn't do much for his love of red and white (and some black). Kids been in the bigs 7 seasons now and hasn't even come close to getting a playoff whiff even though he pulls his weight and more.

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From Practice

 

Quote

 

36 minutes ago

That's Lee Stempniak at practice in a no-contact sweater.

Brett Pesce took a puck to the head in practice. Slow to get up, slow to skate off the ice with some help.

 

 

Quote

 

23 minutes ago

Peters tweaked D in last game, pairing Hanifin with van Riemsdyk and Faulk with Fleury. Has those pairs together again in practice.

Skinner working on Ryan line with Jooris. Have to think that will be Skinner-Ryan-Stempniak fairly soon.


 

 

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10 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

Skinner has this year and 2018-19 left before he becomes a UFA. He's a Toronto homey, goes back every off season and now is seeing the Leafs making measurable strides with a full barn every game in a town that worships any player wearing a Leafs crest. If the Canes don't pick it up and become a playoff team this year and next with measurable improvement it would be an easy decision for him to put on a Leafs sweater. He'll pay taxes out the go-go but he will also have a contract in the 6-7m range if he keeps scoring. Getting benched the last 5 minutes of regulation, then 5 minutes of OT and not being shooter probably doesn't do much for his love of red and white (and some black). Kids been in the bigs 7 seasons now and hasn't even come close to getting a playoff whiff even though he pulls his weight and more.

 

Add to all that the fact that BP keeps putting him on lines with mediocre players. Unlike E Staal, Skinner keeps performing despite those players, but like Rodney Dangerfield, he might be starting to wonder why he "ain't getting no respect." 

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8 minutes ago, OBXer said:

The good  Stemp skating

The not so good Pesce helped off the ice

Anxious, as many are, to see what Stemp can do this season. He was an integral part in the few mini win streaks we had last year.  Last season’s 16 goals and 24 assists are not paltry numbers.

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Just now, surfzone365 said:

Anxious, as many are, to see what Stemp can do this season. He was an integral part in the few mini win streaks we had last year.  Last season’s 16 goals and 24 assists are not paltry numbers.

 

At the moment I'm more concerned about Pesce.

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10 hours ago, spyglass88 said:

But here's where the decision to bench Skinner during OT was pretty lame, in my view (you may disagree). Sit the line down for the last 5 minutes after it's -3. Okay, I get that. Message delivered by end of regulation. Why keep Skinner off ice during OT? Why does BP continue to punish him individually (and the team ultimately), especially after BP has played him the entire game on a line with two players who belong in the AHL?

 

We'll never know, but I would much rather have had Skinner on those breakaways than Rask or a tired Aho.    

 

I doubt Skinny would have been on the ice for both breakaways and the odds of him scoring might have been better but who knows.  

 

To me the bigger question is what Peters saw Skinny do or didn't do in regulation that caused him to get benched to begin with, assuming he was benched and not banged up or something. Granted, our second hottest scorer in the league got us on the board but he has also had his blinders one more than usual and has been about as defensively responsible and good at passing and puck management as Faulk the last few games. 

 

 

 

  

 

.  

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14 minutes ago, Whaler1 said:

To me the bigger question is what Peters saw Skinny do or didn't do in regulation that caused him to get benched to begin with

 

That is the bigger question. I'm not sure we will get an answer. Another question is how will Skinner respond next game.

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Yeah Pesce is a pretty big deal. Our weakness in depth is very much RHD. If we move Faulk up, which we would have to, that is a defensive problem, TVR to middle pair is probably fine, but then bottom pair becomes Hanifin with Dahlbeck on his off side, also not ideal. In terms of best player Slavin would be the biggest hit, but factoring depth in, Pesce is probably right there.

 

Chiming in, yes very good to see Stemp skating. Kuok is going to be good. But this year, we could really use some Stempniak.

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The good Pesce appears ok

The not so good Stemp is a long way off

 

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13 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

Wondering who will come up? Pure speculation follows:

 

Walmark deserves it most, but unless we push Ryan to wing, we don't need a center. I'm betting Kuok rotates out. I really like him, but good time to get him some AHL time IMO (though him back up would not be a shocker, just my hunch he stays down).

 

I'd vote for Zykov. 5 goals and 9 points in 9 games. Big, goes to net, which really helped us when he came up last time, and something this team needs constant reminding of. Also, like Walmark and PDG, Zykov is getting to a point we need to find out what we have in him at the NHL level.

 

Wallmark might still get squeezed in. The guy is on fire.

 

Could also make the case for Foegele, Andrew Miller, or PDG.

 

I go Zykov (but any of the above names could be in, so I don't bet much on that).

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Peters did confirm that the -3 for Skinner's line was the reason they didn't get back out there. "No sense letting them go to -4."

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