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In Season 2017-18 Talk

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5 minutes ago, remkin said:

Fair enough. I could well be wrong. Just something I've been kicking around for a while. Clearly the NHL agrees that it's not a waste. I've heard players feel that it is, but it's not everyone. Seems like the ideal might be to split the year, but that would be tough on the junior team. 

 

I wonder if this has ever been discussed at a BOG meeting - changing or modifying the rule that is?

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3 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

I wonder if this has ever been discussed at a BOG meeting - changing or modifying the rule that is?

 

I searched the terms on google and found this article from ESPN:

 

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/14569661/nhl-north-american-teenage-prospects-allowed-play-ahl

 

Once excerpt deals with your question:

 

There is a committee currently discussing possible changes to the agreement between the NHL and CHL. Also, there's been talk about whether to change the age threshold for draft eligibility.

 

"We have regularly discussed the possibility of moving the draft age later with the [National Hockey League] Players' Association in collective bargaining," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said in an email. "It's a complicated issue and as a result, to this point, has not gained significant enough traction to result in change.

 

"We have also, from time to time, discussed negotiating for the ability to assign 18-year-old players to the AHL, but I am not satisfied that the right would be universally supported by our managers, and I know any such provision would be forcefully resisted by the CHL and its owners."

 

For me it applies even more to 19 year olds who are on the elite end.

 

The article also raises some of the arguments that have concerned me over the years. There are a few relevant quotes, but my main concern was lack of positive, but this quote kind of backs up what P. O Sullivan was saying about the Chabot not being ready:

 

...many top players at the junior level can develop bad habits by playing there too long.

 

The article also mentions that players do end up ok in the NHL and that the AHL is not the right move for every player, but maybe should be an option because the AHL is faster and a half way stop between Juniors and NHL, as Fleury found out.

 

This article does not insist any one approach is right, and I'm not trying to prove my case, just better explain it. 

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The CHL owners are living in the past, raking in big dollars, and doing whatever they can to avoid paying the promised "scholarships" for the vast majority of kids who never make it beyond that level, so they can find work in the real world.

 

Other than these issues, it's a GREAT league!! 

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I'm surprised hockey season is here already.  Time really does fly by.  Still feels like summer out here (Not complaining).  I really hope we turn the corner.  I'm really excited about Darling. 

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Already? These summers feel like a flippin life time to me. Which is somewhat fine at the same time, frankly I wish I could have my summer and my Canes as well. 

Edited by legend-1
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41 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

Already? These summers feel like a flippin life time to me. Which is somewhat fine at the same time, frankly I wish I could have my summer and my Canes as well. 

I think that's called playoff hockey....

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5 minutes ago, Stealth-ch1 said:

I think that's called playoff hockey....

 

Well played Stealth!

 

If it's 90 degrees things are probably going pretty well.

 

Edited by coastal_caniac

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5 hours ago, remkin said:

Once excerpt deals with your question:

 

There is a committee currently discussing possible changes to the agreement between the NHL and CHL.

 

"We have also, from time to time, discussed negotiating for the ability to assign 18-year-old players to the AHL, but I am not satisfied that the right would be universally supported by our managers, and I know any such provision would be forcefully resisted by the CHL and its owners."

 

Good find Rem, thanks. 

 

Not holding my breath that anything is going to change.

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Alright ! Time to climb out on that limb with my predictions. Canes make playoffs as top 3 in the Metro, but get eliminated in 7. Neither the Pens nor the Caps break the 100 point mark due to intense competition in the East. McDavid and Matthews go to final game of the season to see who wins the scoring title. Now way out on the limb, Tampa beats Leafs in conference final to play the Ducks for the Cup.

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Major Junior A isn't a big money making venture. Played college football with a friend in Canada who was a silver spoon kid who eventually took over the old mans company then sold it for around $50m.  He turned around and bought the Niagara Ice Dogs. Admin staff, hiring a top GM and respected coach and coaching staff, a solid Trainer and staff, arena costs, player costs like equipment, travel really adds up. Its a rich owners pet and status symbol in a hockey crazed country. It makes him a somebody.

 

 

burke.JPG

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42 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Lines at Practice.

Chip AlexanderVerified account @ice_chip 4m4 minutes ago

 
 

Lines today have

Staal with Aho, Lindholm;

Rask with Teravainen, Williams;

Ryan with Skinner, Kuokkanen;

Kruger with McGinn, Nordstrom.

 

Im guessing they are rotating or Necas and Kuokkanen with Skins and Ryan.  Or Necas is just getting more practice time.

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4 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

Im guessing they are rotating or Necas and Kuokkanen with Skins and Ryan.  Or Necas is just getting more practice time.

 

I'm not sure. Maybe Necas skates the line in practice tomorrow before a final decision on game day

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1 hour ago, raleighcaniac said:

Major Junior A isn't a big money making venture. 

Over 400 current and former players beg to differ.

 

Not looking to start an argument, just saying there's two sides to every story. Because it controls the narrative since these kids' futures depend completely on their good behavior, the CHL has gotten away with crying poor despite numbers indicating otherwise for a very long time. Then Don Cherry chimes in with this:

 

"What worries me is that the judge isn’t in the hockey world," said Cherry. "If they ever have this class action suit, if it ever comes through, it will close at least half (of the major junior hockey teams)."

 

Please. "The hockey world"--as if it's spinning in some alternative universe! Well bad news, Don: The class was certified and the suits are moving ahead, and they should. A class action is the only way these kids can have a voice without the risk of being targeted by the owners. 

 

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TS I read the link and don't have any issue with a class action lawsuit to see players each make a bit of money but accounting wizardry will always show barely break even balance sheets. I just recall in conversations several years back now with Bill Burke it was generally about how costly it was to financially maintain a Major Jr A organization and not about it being a great investment from which an owner was sitting in the bathtub counting his cash. He said just the cost of players sticks and skates was crazy expensive. I went to a Barrie (30 mi north of Toronto) Colts game v. Sudbury Wolves (Sudbury being a moonscape place up north) in 2015 and the crowd size was about 3-4k. One game doesn't define profit/loss but what the owners from both teams probably made from that game would suggest the stock market is a far better return. Like the Canes, all these teams keep the numbers close to the vest; we'll never know.

Edited by raleighcaniac
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5 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

TS I read the link and don't have any issue with a class action lawsuit to see players each make a bit of money but accounting wizardry will always show barely break even balance sheets. I just recall in conversations several years back now with Bill Burke it was generally about how costly it was to financially maintain a Major Jr A organization and not about it being a great investment from which an owner was sitting in the bathtub counting his cash. He said just the cost of players sticks and skates was crazy expensive. I went to a Barrie (30 mi north of Toronto) Colts game v. Sudbury Wolves (Sudbury being a moonscape place up north) in 2015 and the crowd size was about 3-4k. One game doesn't define profit/loss but what the owners from both teams probably made from that game would suggest the stock market is a far better return. Like the Canes, all these teams keep the numbers close to the vest; we'll never know.

 

Maybe your pal owns the Carolina Hurricanes of the CHL and not the Habs or Leafs.  Just because one team works a narrow margin doesn't mean they all do.  They protect their books like they were the Holy Grail.

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Looking at opening day tailgate weather.  Now distinctly iffy.   I would pray for rain to go away but we need it too bad.  May have to forgo and do Brewery Octoberfest instead.

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19 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

TS I read the link and don't have any issue with a class action lawsuit to see players each make a bit of money but accounting wizardry will always show barely break even balance sheets.

It will. My problem is with the prudence of that, when young lives are being affected by it. The CHL seems to want it three ways: (1) to be a for-profit business, while (2) being seen as a benefactor to Canadian youth, but also (3) making money on the backs of those it purports to take under its wing.

 

I think the only way those three objectives can co-exist is by the League insisting on total transparency and holding teams accountable to being good guardians of these kids' best interests while they are in its charge. To do this, the CHL should become the hockey equivalent of a public university; financial statements, operating expenses, and everybody's salary should be public knowledge, and operations open to public scrutiny. I think anything less than that, where young lives and million-dollar futures are on the line, is insufficient.

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Same issue with all US College sports. Athletes give it their all, 3-5% make it to the big's those that don't in many instances have broken bodies. Unlike hockey the major US College sports programs are raking in 10's of million  per school. I think I read that UNC CH B'Ball brought in about 23m in revenue. What did the player get? Supposedly a no-cost education? Well whatever. Should Jr A hockey players in Canada, and US College athletes be paid? Yes. Will that happen? Doubtful.

 

 

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OK this is the time of year I get Island Fever and generally optimistic. But this time I mean it. OK, I meant it before too, but I really really think that this year there is so much hidden potential, even in the small upgrades, that this team could surprise like Columbus did last year. I know a lot of pundits like the Canes for the playoffs this year, but it is almost always for as a cut line team. I think this team has the potential to really surprise. As in 100 point season. I'm not sure we're grizzled enough with that super elite type talent to go deep in the playoffs, but I'm going to try to point out the upgrades here without going Tolstoy.

 

The really long version is here: http://fans.hurricanes.nhl.com/community/topic/23943-the-blog-spot-long-article-blog-length-posts/?page=2

 

The basic point is that we have lost nothing, added power additions of Williams and Darling and "could be key" additions of TVR and Kruger. BUT the hidden value is in current guys improving. Before I list the guys that will improve, let me just point out that Skinner, Slavin, Pesce and others are already there and should at least hold up to last year. Also, Williams and Darling are really big additions. Darling alone could close the gap to get to the cut line. Williams adds at least 10 goals to what others would have brought, but he's more than that. Not only leadership, but tricky high skill plays all over the place that make everyone better.

 

IMO Williams and Darling would have made last year's team a cut line team. But this year's team is not going to be last year's team. The same guys will be better:

 

Teuvo Teravainen: New team and system and late camp arrival last year. Full camp this year. Preseason looks like the stud his skills promised. In my blog post I projected 22G/55 points, but I would not be shocked if he breaks 60. He looked that good in preseason. Guys often break out in year 2 with new team.

Elias Lindholm: He is still my top breakout prediction. He did it for over half the season last year. He is a 60 point or more guy this year with double the goals.

Sebastian Aho: I have trouble trying to put more than 26G/53 points on him. But he could easily break through that. 30 goals is not crazy.

Noah Hanifin; The skill has been evident, but the game came together for him end of last year. A bit more offense, and a clear step up in overall game.

Jordan Staal: The combination of all of the skill around him, Kruger taking some D responsibilities, new found confidence with the C, his production jumps.

Derek Ryan: Sneaky good, with great start last year. Looked good in pre-season. No, not a 1C, but I'm talking improvement. More consistency more points this yr.

Add TVR/Fleury calming down the bottom part of the back end and maybe adding a couple more points?

 

These individuals improving their games is just enhanced by how well the group seems to be playing the system in pre-season. As in fast. Even if less than all of these guys pick up their games, and if Darling moves us to mid pack in goaltending, we are in by a margin.

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I get where you're coming from Rem.  The name of the game is balanced scoring.   What has me concerned is the lack of true star power and usually that comes in the center variety.  Every consistent team out there has a legit 1C in some shape or form.  I am very intrigued to see how we do.  It's those tight 1 goal games where we need a star to rise to the occasion and score a clutch goal what has me concerned.   With that being said, this is the most talented team we have seen since 2006.

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20 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

I get where you're coming from Rem.  The name of the game is balanced scoring.   What has me concerned is the lack of true star power and usually that comes in the center variety.  Every consistent team out there has a legit 1C in some shape or form.  I am very intrigued to see how we do.  It's those tight 1 goal games where we need a star to rise to the occasion and score a clutch goal what has me concerned.   With that being said, this is the most talented team we have seen since 2006.

 

That is a very fair point BD. It is also my concern. Could be that Necas or Aho or Lindholm or Kuokanen rise to that 1C level, or eventually might have to trade for it.

 

While the 1C is a need, at least at this very moment, every coach I can remember us having, and just about every coach in the league lately seems to be wanting to roll 3 serious scoring lines. But while coaches are breaking up their scorers on different lines to try for that, few teams have enough depth to legitimately pull it off.  We can. And that is something that this team could not ever quite do. Some years were way off, and some closer (last year). But if those guys step up even a little, we really can roll 3 lines that can seriously bite. Putting that together with a very good and growing better D, and hopefully a fix in goal, should make us legit at least for a playoff appearance.

 

There are always exceptions to the rule, but every cup winner in recent memory has had at least 2 and often 3 very elite forwards. Also at least a top half goalie. We think we have the goalie, and possibly the forwards, but don't know. So anyways, I wouldn't run to place a bet on us winning the cup this year, but I really think a major stride forward will happen this year.

 

I can also see more and more why Francis did not pull the trigger on Duchene (even if the price came down). We have enough to get in, and really find out what we have with all of those guys listed above. Further, Fleury will gain trade value by next year. Also, there are a few really good players that could be out there next year, not the least of which would be long shot of John Tavares, but there are others too. The base of a very good team is here, and Necas/Gauthier/Kuok/Roy and Bean are all pretty nice prospects with a bunch of others below them. Good time to buy Hurricane's stock is what I'm thinking.

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