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Red_Storm

Attendance discussion

gocanes0506

I started this thread to have an attendance focus area

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Official attendance last night 7892...YIKES!  The lowest attendance in all of last season’s crappy attendance was 8086.  The pressure is definitely on to get this ship turned around and consistent winning going forward.  Even then...concerning.  This is a big hole to climb out of in rebuilding the fan base.

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2 hours ago, Red_Storm said:

Official attendance last night 7892...YIKES!  The lowest attendance in all of last season’s crappy attendance was 8086. 

The team hasn't played in Raleigh this early in October for years, and it was a Tuesday night. Ain't a'-skeered. ;)

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

The team hasn't played in Raleigh this early in October for years, and it was a Tuesday night. Ain't a'-skeered. ;)

 

When I was a FSTH I went to every game regardless of day or month and the attendance was respectable. Years of losing has lowered our base. We need continual winning to bring back the base.

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And this attendance probably isn't helping PK to sell the team.  Maybe it reduces the value Greenburg would have to pay, but who would want to buy a losing enterprise?

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Then again there's the buy low sell high principle. I'd wager Greenberg is interested because of the price and the upside RF has managed to build despite limited funds.

 

I get the point. Who doesn't want bigger crowds? But I think picking out a Tuesday in early October and drawing conclusions based on it is a little ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, g105 said:

And this attendance probably isn't helping PK to sell the team.  Maybe it reduces the value Greenburg would have to pay, but who would want to buy a losing enterprise?

Greenburg would. In 2010 he purchased the Texas Rangers for $593 million, $385 million cash and $208 million in assumed liabilities. They went onto the World Series that year.

Despite ranking last out of 30 teams in attendance last season (11,776 per game), Waddell said the Hurricanes made approximately $2 million.

While each of the NHL’s 30 teams received a $16 million cut of the incoming Vegas Golden Knights’ $500 million expansion fee, Waddell said the Hurricanes made money even without the one-time influx of expansion cash.

“The Las Vegas money would be up and above that,” Waddell said of the team making a profit. “We made $18 million — it’s a true statement — but really you’d be selling something that’s not going to continue, let’s say.”

 

Edited by slapshot02
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3 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

The team hasn't played in Raleigh this early in October for years, and it was a Tuesday night. Ain't a'-skeered. ;)

 

Actually, it was just the season before last that the Canes had a home game on the second Tuesday in October...Canes hosted Florida on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 and drew 10,901 or 38% more than last night. 

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If you can't even sell 8,000 seats to the second game of the season it doesn't matter what night the game is on thats just not a good sign especially after an exciting home win 3 days before. If there were true blue hockey fans in the Triangle you would have had 14k+ plus attending last night. Last nights crowd was probably a majority of STHM which points out how few there are. Wonder how many were watching the game on the tube? A few thousand? The Canes got to draw exactly zero energy from the crowd last night and thats got to hurt.  I pasted the available seats for the Friday Oct 27 game against the Blues and it isn't a pretty picture.  Blue dots buy from Canes, Red dots from TM.  Lots of people moving into Wake but it isn't translating to ticket sales. I said earlier they should have thrown the doors open for the 2 pre season games, get some interest going. Dropped my STM seats this season after 10 years of lower bowl. Cheaper to buy them on a secondary site and as long as you don't plan to eat at the rink its just cheaper and it looks like the trend will continue for the foreseeable future.Canes need to win bad for a number of reasons.

blues.JPG

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1 hour ago, Red_Storm said:

 

Actually, it was just the season before last that the Canes had a home game on the second Tuesday in October...Canes hosted Florida on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 and drew 10,901 or 38% more than last night. 

Point taken Red, but the Summerfest crowd was 40 percent larger this year. My point being, neither of these things matters. What does, in terms of organizational viability, is tickets sold. If the organization is to be believed, those numbers are much better than they've been in years.

 

And while I don't always agree with Luke, this might interest you, because it speaks directly to your concern. The upshot: In a small market that sold out the opener on a weekend night, far fewer are going to come out two days later.

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5 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

If you can't even sell 8,000 seats to the second game of the season it doesn't matter what night the game is on thats just not a good sign especially after an exciting home win 3 days before. If there were true blue hockey fans in the Triangle you would have had 14k+ plus attending last night. Last nights crowd was probably a majority of STHM which points out how few there are. Wonder how many were watching the game on the tube? A few thousand? The Canes got to draw exactly zero energy from the crowd last night and thats got to hurt.  I pasted the available seats for the Friday Oct 27 game against the Blues and it isn't a pretty picture.  Blue dots buy from Canes, Red dots from TM.  Lots of people moving into Wake but it isn't translating to ticket sales. I said earlier they should have thrown the doors open for the 2 pre season games, get some interest going. Dropped my STM seats this season after 10 years of lower bowl. Cheaper to buy them on a secondary site and as long as you don't plan to eat at the rink its just cheaper and it looks like the trend will continue for the foreseeable future.Canes need to win bad for a number of reasons.

blues.JPG

Dorothy, you're not in Canada anymore, as surely as I'm not in Philly. I'll refer you to this as well, just in case you missed where I linked it above.

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More broadly, I'll add that while I get the concerns, it's nothing new; it must be October. But Luke's piece explains the reasons, chief among them fewer cheap or comped tickets, because any potential buyer is going to want real numbers (i.e., full-price ticket sales), not artificially amped attendance stats achieved through giving seats away and the discounted sales of third-party vendors.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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4 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Dorothy, you're not in Canada anymore

 

Well, they aren't everything and sliced bread either....Tuesday Night In Canada.  B)

 

59de71212c7d3_senstickets.thumb.JPG.cbfc86020e516da3ed33d9fdc369fde6.JPG

Edited by coastal_caniac
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Folks just buying tickets to go to a random, individual game, most likely went Saturday which was classified a sell out.  Tuesdays are always a hard sell in Raleigh.  Columbus doesn't exactly have a big following and get the local fans in the building like the Pens, Rangers, Philly, Bruins, Sabres, etc.  Pretty much all you had was full season ticket holders and friends and family. 

 

No need to get all waddy panty right now on attendance.

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1 hour ago, cc said:

Winning fixes all woes.

 

Exactly! I never expected any change in attendance this year unless we go on a very early hot streak that might spur more interest. Just because we made a few trades that does not spark interest unless the team starts winning. Prove it...show me....Win and they will come. Games aren't cheap...I spent an additional $80,00 on non tkt items including parking and concessions which got me off light compared to other games. All in roughly $300.00.  Not many people are going to invest 12K into a team that is not winning.

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There are discounted tickets easily found. On Vivid Seats can get Sect 123 Row V for $49 plus fees for St Louis game on a Friday so about $65 a seat. Funny how Waddell said the team made $2m but said zip about revenue sharing where Carolina has been a taker for years. Not a chance our gate covers player and staff payroll. 

Edited by raleighcaniac

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46 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

There are discounted tickets easily found. On Vivid Seats can get Sect 123 Row V for $49 plus fees for St Louis game on a Friday so about $65 a seat. Funny how Waddell said the team made $2m but said zip about revenue sharing where Carolina has been a taker for years. Not a chance our gate covers player and staff payroll. 

 

I would like to ask if you bought one of those tickets to attend last night's game and if not then its logical to assume you are part of the issue with attendance you seem so eager to bring to the table as a concerned fan?  You already mentioned you aren't a STM. With that said, your avatar and recent comments suggest you have availability to attend games. 

 

We didn't lose the fans overnight and expecting the fanbase to flock back en masse immediately is objectively unrealistic. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by coastal_caniac

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5 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

I would like to ask if you bought one of those tickets to attend last night's game and if not then its logical to assume you are part of the issue with attendance you seem so eager to bring to the table as a concerned fan?  You already mentioned you aren't a STM. With that said, your avatar and recent comments suggest you have availability to attend games.  I mean, put up or something something.

 

We didn't lose the fans overnight and expecting the fanbase to flock back en masse immediately is objectively unrealistic. 

 

 

 

 

 

I will chip in here.  My daughter just turned one years old and I need to start saving for her college.  I make a great salary and fat stacks from my monthly commission checks selling cloud and colocation services.  the commission checks alone put most peoples biweekly paycheck to shame. I live a great life for a 33 year old and had no hand me outs to get where I am at today.  Over the last 8 seasons I have seen season tickets rise and parking and concessions rise while a crap product has been put on the ice.  Now I will admit things are getting better but I am not quite sold on this team but will hold reservations until 15 to 20 games in.

 

I think I will be a STH if we make a big splash and/or put a consistent quality winning product on the ice.  I will gladly fork out 12 - 15K for season tickets.  I assume that's the relative cost?  Might be more though.  This whole price hike really rubbed e the wrong way.  Now I know, "we are cheap compared to other markets."  But that is just like what you make salary wise based on where you live.  Cost of living varies.  What the market will bare varies.  So saying we are so cheap is really a mute point in this market.  This market is used and accustomed to winning.  If one of our 2 great college basketball teams is not in the final 4 then it's a failure end of story.

 

While I do agree with all of you or most of you that this team is heading in the right direction.  I still feel we are missing that legit 1C to have that stamp of approval.  Beating a dead horse I know.  I am on the fence right now in terms of STH.  The future is bright.  But we are lacking that true 1C and I feel it cannot come anywhere but free agency or trade.  We start winning regularly and making the playoffs regularly.  I will spend that money.  Until then.  Fat chance.  Call me a band wagon fan or a problem all you want.  I have gone to games with my dad since Greensboro.  I grew up right on the Orange county line and the Greensboro arena was actually close than the PNC.

 

I witnessed a river of beer in the aisle during the Toronto playoff series and lots of sun burnt Canadians that ranted and raved about this place.  They honestly think we live in some sort of tropical paradise?  TLDR?  We need playoff hockey back.  Desperately.

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BD, not sure why you are quoting me but just to reiterate and be clear.....don't complain about attendance if you don't attend.  That's a fairly easy concept to grasp.  Not saying you are, but others seem to be bent to keep bringing it up and calling people out for not being true blue fans, to use rc's indictment.

 

With that said, it's really groovy to know about your fat stacks, which I'm sure the ticket office would like to take advantage of.  Or my Sherman.

Edited by coastal_caniac
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I wish everybody reported how they made fat stacks.

 

I'm a career public servant and don't make fat stacks, so I cannot participate.

Edited by coastal_caniac
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Seems like the attendance woes discussion has popped up for the past several years after the obligatory sellout of the opener because all STHs are required to buy tickets to that game. Then the bottom falls out. Unlike BD58, I am a public servant and do not make fat stacks. Nonetheless, I was a STH (11, 12 and sometimes 24 game plans) from 2007 until last year when my kid who attended games with me went off to college. I'll still go to 4 or 5 games this year. But some of the attendance problems have been self inflicted by the Canes. In 2007, parking was $7/game, then went to $10, then $15 and now $20. Season ticket prices and individual game prices are way up - certainly at a bad time going 8 years without playoffs. CONSISTENT winning will do a lot to increase attendance, but I do think a lot of people who have given up season tickets have spent their discretionary entertainment income elsewhere, and may simply not choose to come back. Hope I'm wrong about this.

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I'm in tech and am under siege from off-shoring.  My wage+bonus is now less than in 2008.

 

Meanwhile, we know where the Canes and professional sports have gone.  It is very difficult to participate as an STHer due to the enormous cost.

 

What I'm seeing in sports is a few people with fat stacks buy season tickets and become resellers.  This is the trend, and the Millenials and Gen-Z eat it up, popping off $300 per ticket for a once-a-year kind of event.  At least that is how it goes in Chicago. 

 

Then the following weekend, those same people go downtown and march on the rich top %.  Even though they just paid a reseller to get them there.  Sigh.

 

This market is not big enough to make that work.  Yet.  Check that... This market is not consistently successful enough (I'm talking team results), to make that work, yet.

 

It is kind of sad, but really, that's how sports is trending.  A few lucky ones with fat stacks pay the team up front, and then become resellers to the rest of the world.  It shouldn't be this way, but it is.

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9 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

I would like to ask if you bought one of those tickets to attend last night's game and if not then its logical to assume you are part of the issue with attendance you seem so eager to bring to the table as a concerned fan?

Ditto. I live three hours away and can't get to many games, but when I go I pay full price--specifically to support the org. 

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