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Attendance discussion

gocanes0506

I started this thread to have an attendance focus area

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With the new black Friday special ($40 for lowers and $20 for the best uppers) it seems that the Canes are willing to do some deep discounting to boost the attendance numbers.  Those 3 Saturday night games that qualify should bring a big crowd at those prices.  I guess this special will help show if the lower attendance is due to poor play or high prices for the market. My family has a full season in center ice and it is a harder pill to swallow each year with the rise in price without improvement on the ice.  I will say that this special is not very fair for season ticket holder in the lower level south though. They are paying $60 per game and a random person off the street could pay $40 for 6 different games!  I am all for the Canes trying to fill the seats, but this is not fair for the people who have stuck with them for a full season!  I am also not sure if anyone here has noticed, but it also seems that the Canes post tons of tickets on the secondary market themselves which also undercuts their season ticket holders. 

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I've noticed that people crowd into the corners and up in the third deck. I guess that the team needs to keep some sort of minimum pricing per NHL, but the best seats in the lower bowl are massively empty for many games. Those are the seats that show up on TV.

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As one of those that sit in the corners in the 3rd deck w/Stub Hub tix, I can tell you that now that all tickets are digital download, they come straight from the Hurricanes. It also seems that they sell the same tickets for every game, with prices varying a bit based on opponent and weeknight vs. weekend. Also, while the Canes sell some very attractively priced tix on Stub Hub, they list a number of tickets at prices considerably over face price. Of course these don’t sell, but they raise the “average” price of tickets in all areas offered on Stub Hub to STH prices probably. I’m guessing the high priced tickets are offered just to keep average prices on secondary market consistent w/STH prices. I wish they had announced the 20/40 promotion sooner. I already bought tickets for 12/16, and would gladly have paid a little more to sit downstairs.

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On 11/18/2017 at 10:07 AM, remkin said:

I've noticed that people crowd into the corners and up in the third deck. I guess that the team needs to keep some sort of minimum pricing per NHL, but the best seats in the lower bowl are massively empty for many games. Those are the seats that show up on TV.

Don't abuse the corner people.  They are just blue collar slobs trying to eek out a living and watch a bunch of cry baby millionaires slide around on ice.  It is the last affordable place left!!!!!

 

wxray - a proud upper corner crowder

Edited by wxray1
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16 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

Don't abuse the corner people.  They are just blue collar slobs trying to eek out a living and watch a bunch of cry baby millionaires slide around on ice.  It is the last affordable place left!!!!!

 

wxray - a proud upper corner crowder

No abuse at all. My contention is that the center ice tickets are way overpriced for this market. Nothing else. I don't sit in them except during a few deep STH discount offers. This year the Canes offered section 101 for $1997 which comes out to $46.44 a game. That is a good deal for good, but not great seats. Section is pretty much sold out. 

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While you are talking about the price difference to sit in the end zone vs. sideline, I don't think that's the whole problem. I do the 11 game package. That's a comfortable number of games for me to go to - I just can't make 41 games a year. But I can't buy less than a full season in the sideline seats. If they opened up the sidelines for 11 games - even at a higher price than the ends - I think you would see people move up. Having said that, I really like the view from the ends. 

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I'm just glad they are trying things with the pricing.  They used to do everything EXCEPT adjust the cost of the tickets, which led to cheap hot dogs and empty sections.  This year they are giving 'special deals' on normally undesirable seating locations (ends of the lower sideline) and normally undesirable parts of the schedule (holiday doldrums).  I think the only mistakes have been in not publicizing the deals.. it's like they want to make the offers but not have too many people take advantage of them, so no one gets accustomed to paying way below Full STM price.

Edited by caniac-1-1

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They must have a problem with trying to hold a minimum NHL price, but that seems self defeating. There are fans right now who would come if prices were lower as evidenced by the way the rafters and corners fill up with good pricing. It would seem you build the base with the prices the market will support, then raise the prices. It just seems so odd to have soooooo many prime seats empty in those situations where other seats are packed.

 

I wonder if they could look at some off games like a Monday game vs a team who's fans don't travel, and cut the price on the best seats for one game only. Or even maybe a series of say 3 or 4 games. Just a thought.

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It is fine to have a few discounted games throughout the year, but as a season ticket holder too many of them is a "slap in the face" to the season ticket holders who have paid higher prices. 

 

I have always thought that they should consider reducing season ticket holder prices across the board (not just a section or two).  Make a real effort to increase the season ticket holder base.   The model they have been using for past seasons has obviously not worked in increasing the number of season ticket holders.   This would also keep season ticket holders from being resentful when they do offer promotions to the general public.  The Canes management's line has always been that the fans won't mind paying these prices if the product on the ice gets better.  It certainly will increase a bit.  However, I still maintain the prices are too high for this market.

Edited by cathyl111

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On 11/21/2017 at 11:54 AM, remkin said:

They must have a problem with trying to hold a minimum NHL price,

R U saying that there is a minimum NHL price on tickets? I'm not knowledgeable on ticket pricing.

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On 11/20/2017 at 2:20 PM, DeacFan said:

While you are talking about the price difference to sit in the end zone vs. sideline, I don't think that's the whole problem. I do the 11 game package. That's a comfortable number of games for me to go to - I just can't make 41 games a year. But I can't buy less than a full season in the sideline seats. If they opened up the sidelines for 11 games - even at a higher price than the ends - I think you would see people move up. Having said that, I really like the view from the ends. 

 

During my STH years every one was in the non Zamboni end, down in the first 7 rows, so I didn't have to deal with the netting. Only downside.. no freebies from the Storm Squids.

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3 hours ago, slapshot02 said:

R U saying that there is a minimum NHL price on tickets? I'm not knowledgeable on ticket pricing.

I thought I heard that somewhere, but don't have a reference. If anyone else knows, please advise.

 

On this same note, the team offered really good deal on Black Friday. The place was packed, and not just with Toronto fans. And unlike usual, it was distributed in all sections, not just corners and upper deck. If the team had won the place would have been rocking. It was pretty rocking during the failed come back.

 

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I would be very surprised if the NHL had a minimum price that its member teams are required to charge. That is the definition of a cartel. We all know that the major sports leagues are cartels on a theoretical level, but price fixing is too blatant. It would never survive a court challenge, and all it takes is one p-o'ed owner to bring suit.

 

Local owners know their markets better than any centralized administrative body, an idea at the heart of the franchise model. Preventing them from applying that knowledge in the ways they think most appropriate wouldn't only be illegal, but from a business standpoint, stupid. Then again, this is the NHL...

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I seem to recall from a couple of years back that there's some NHL minimum that teams are required to meet but I'm not sure exactly what it was.  Ticket prices? Overall revenue?  I dunno, I'm getting old. :(

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

 

Local owners know their markets better than any centralized administrative body, 

You would think that, but many trips to the PNC/RBC leave me wondering about it.

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9 hours ago, slapshot02 said:

R U saying that there is a minimum NHL price on tickets? I'm not knowledgeable on ticket pricing.

 

I’m sure anti-trust laws would prohibit this, but owners and GMs surely talk “unofficially.” Also, it makes no sense for the league to try to mandate minimum prices, then allow discounting like Black Friday or discounted ticket sales on the secondary market.

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15 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

I seem to recall from a couple of years back that there's some NHL minimum that teams are required to meet but I'm not sure exactly what it was.  Ticket prices? Overall revenue?  I dunno, I'm getting old. :(

 

I wasn't able to find a direct listing, but the 2013 CBA included a minimum ticket revenue amount that varied from team to team based on the size of their arena.  A team had to meet this minimum to qualify for revenue sharing.  So it's not a legal requirement, but small market teams are only keeping the lights on with revenue sharing money, so it may as well be.  This also stopped teams from giving away a lot of free tickets to boost attendance numbers, like they had been doing under the previous agreement.

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9 hours ago, caniac-1-1 said:

 

I wasn't able to find a direct listing, but the 2013 CBA included a minimum ticket revenue amount that varied from team to team based on the size of their arena.  A team had to meet this minimum to qualify for revenue sharing.  So it's not a legal requirement, but small market teams are only keeping the lights on with revenue sharing money, so it may as well be.  This also stopped teams from giving away a lot of free tickets to boost attendance numbers, like they had been doing under the previous agreement.

Nice find Caniac 1-1. Maybe that's what I was thinking of.

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As the old saying goes "winning solves all"...It's been amazing to see the transformation the last 6 weeks at the games, maybe the holidays added to the "buzz" and crowd feel, but the last few games have really seen the building ratchet up the noise and cheering. Really great to see, and IMO once again proves if the canes put a winning product on the Ice the passion and crowds will come. A Simple formula :)

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52 minutes ago, canes2017 said:

As the old saying goes "winning solves all"...It's been amazing to see the transformation the last 6 weeks at the games, maybe the holidays added to the "buzz" and crowd feel, but the last few games have really seen the building ratchet up the noise and cheering. Really great to see, and IMO once again proves if the canes put a winning product on the Ice the passion and crowds will come. A Simple formula :)

 

True canes2017. There is also a second factor that I don't have the stats for, but observe in person. There tends to be a natural build after the first of the year. For some reason people seem more open to going to Canes' games as the year goes on, which could really combine with this run into a playoff spot nicely.

 

I do wonder about long home stands like the one in February. It would seem good timing, but we have 8 home games in a row. Just seems that could dilute walk up or last minute sales, especially for mid week games of teams who's fans don't travel, like LA Feb 13. That's game #8 on a Tuesday.

 

The last thing is that a fuller building is a more fun experience, which should also boost sales.

 

Hopefully it all works together and it starts filling up.

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The period of time that the cheapo Black Friday tickets was for just recently ended as well so it'll be interesting to see if the crowds continue. 

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Not sure about tomorrow, but the games after the break will have lower bowl discounts available for the entire homestand. I really hope that this, combined with team success helps keep the attendance ball rolling.

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