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raleighcaniac

To Trade, or not to trade

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Everyone still in general agreement that TGiving/end of Nov will be  *edit* or get off the pot time for the team?  Maybe Ronnie gets to deploy a new skill set called making a mid-season trade? Canes have played 15 games and have 16 points. No matter how the cake is sliced that's not impressive based on no upward sustained trend to this point and having had no debilitating injuries unless you count journeyman Stempniak. Eight games to be played through end of November. If the Canes get around 10 points out of the 8 upcoming games it will make decision time for RF a hand wringing experience between standing firm on the axiom that what you have will get better or using his untested skill set and trying to work a 2-3 player swap between 1 and 2 teams like not-so-crazy Joe just did, to improve our goal drought. History says this team stays the course and mgmt simply hope's for improvement. I think RF knows what he has and knows its less than what was hoped for heading into the season.

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We do have to consider our internal budget.  Our cheap owner may not add salary.  Although giving someone Faulk and Rask for a good offensive upgrade would help balance the budget 

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I get the feeling we are already looking. I'm not sure why I feel this but I do. I'm not sure it would mean a big move or any move but only that we are looking. Before we put the cart ahead of the horse I think we should remember the goal, at least for us was to capture a playoff spot. At this point we are 4 pts out of a playoff spot with two games in hand. I am one that believes a game in hand is only an opportunity not something to be banked on. Even so if all things were equal we could well be in a playoff spot now.

 

Twenty games in or TG depending on your point of view is an important mark to take stock.

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I am the last guy to try to predict Francis making the big trade because he never has. That said, I'll take a shot. I think he absolutely should be kicking a lot of tires.

 

My take on this team was that we needed 20-30 more goals than last year, and better goaltending. While Darling has not yet hit his stride, we are #11 in goals against per game, and Cam is outperforming expectations, so no moves needed on the back half of the ice. However, we are still in the bottom 1/3 of the league in goals for. That just does not get it done in today's NHL.

 

We are getting more than expected out of J Staal, Williams, Skinner, and McGinn, and steady from some others. But Rask, LIndholm, and Aho, and  are still trailing. The thing is that we had Stempniak put up 40 points last year. His most recent setback sounds like it could be a while. Williams is an upgrade, but was supposed to be on top of having Stempniak. So we are offensively entirely dependent on multiple guys improving, and some key ones have not yet. Still could, but if they don't then Francis needs to try to have some options.

 

But mainly we have the second to worst PP in the NHL. This is dragging us down. And secondarily we keep losing OT and SO games.

 

All of that would helped if we could find a skilled, offensive-minded forward with a knack for putting the puck in the net. It would help the PP, the OT games, the SO, and our anemic offense. It would also help a possession team that throws a ton of pucks at the net actually convert more of that to points.

 

We have defensive depth, but ironically we have offensive depth too. We have guys we can trade. And if we got the right guy who is young and with years left, we could trade draft picks too.

 

The trick, of course, is finding a guy that a team will let go that we want. I had wondered about Galchenyuk in a "buy low" kind of way, since he's been in the doghouse most of the year, but MTL after a horrid start, is 7-3 and back on track. The Oilers have shopped RNH in the past and are struggling, but ironically RNH is off to one of his best stats with 6 goals and 12 points in 17 games despite his team struggling.

 

I don't know what the deal might be, but this team can still use more high end offense. The problem is that this team does not need mid-range offense, and mainly we seem to need a top center, one of the hardest things to find. So this is all tricky, but at least Francis should be kicking any tires that might be out there.

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1 hour ago, raleighcaniac said:

Everyone still in general agreement that TGiving/end of Nov will be  *edit* or get off the pot time for the team?

Yes, but qualified. You might want to look at the Hagmetrics thread. We are much closer than the negativity often on display here (and I'm as guilty as anyone) indicates.

 

1 hour ago, raleighcaniac said:

If the Canes get around 10 points out of the 8 upcoming games it will make decision time for RF a hand wringing experience between standing firm on the axiom that what you have will get better or using his untested skill set and trying to work a 2-3 player swap between 1 and 2 teams like not-so-crazy Joe just did, to improve our goal drought.

Again, yes and no. First, there is the fact that no team changing out a third of its roster was going to find instant chemistry. From that perspective, this has been a very good start. The main problem is what it has been for years: the PP. It's absolutely abysmal. You don't win consistently in this league without one, and the fact that this team's record is as good as it is without one speaks volumes about what that fix alone can do.

 

Second, the fact that the Canes got very close the past two years despite terrible starts has to give the brain trust confidence in the axiom you cite: that the more this roster plays together the better its chances of a playoff berth, especially with this year's much better start factored in.

 

For both of these reasons, I think Christmas is the drop-dead; if the team is not squarely in a playoff position by then, I think (1) Roddy gets fired (if the PP still sucks and he hasn't been already), and (2) Franchise makes a hockey trade.

 

Finally, and it's just my POV, but Crazy Joe is every bit as crazy as all of us said he is. Refusing the D men he was reportedly offered over the past year and finally trading Duche for a handful of magic beans guarantees that organization another three years of misery, barring a real hockey trade. And that's optimistic, IMO. 

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I am not a big poster but I would say One person that we could definitely let go is Nordstrom. I am not at all impressed with his play. He and Rask seem to be losing the puck the more they touch it these days. He is not that big of a body and only one goal this year. We need a big body with McGinn's driving force to hit. The goal that tied everything up against the Blackhawks, Darling could not see due to 6 bodies in front of him (I counted them). We have got to move the people in front and let him see what's coming. If we are going to be a fast team, then let's play like one. My meaning is, if you play fast, you have to connect on the passing. 

 

This is, of course, IMPO, which is usually off track!

Edited by Goalieman_nc

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44 minutes ago, Goalieman_nc said:

I am not a big poster but I would say One person that we could definitely let go is Nordstrom. I am not at all impressed with his play. He and Rask seem to be losing the puck the more they touch it these days. He is not that big of a body and only one goal this year. We need a big body with McGinn's driving force to hit. The goal that tied everything up against the Blackhawks, Darling could not see due to 6 bodies in front of him (I counted them). We have got to move the people in front and let him see what's coming. If we are going to be a fast team, then let's play like one. My meaning is, if you play fast, you have to connect on the passing. 

 

This is, of course, IMPO, which is usually off track!

Good post Goalieman. While I do think Nordstrom does a lot of the little things, he looked much better at the start of the season than lately. While I get that the organization in general wants to let yutes simmer in scoring situations in Charlotte, there a guys like Zykov and PDG that could also come up here and get some 4th line time too. Zykov goes to the net, and PDG brings energy and has more scoring chops than Nordstrom.

 

Better 4th line observers than me might say that Kruger has been playing tight D, and if so, that might justify his place, but the man has one point and zero goals in 15 games, while Wallmark had 2 points in his first 8 NHL games and has 15 points in 12 games in Charlotte, and had 24 goals in 67 games last year. And he's a plus 20 for his career in Charlotte always near the top of the team.

 

Wallmark, Zykov and PDG are 22, 23, and 24 years old. Not sure they need more stewing in the AHL.

 

I know that we seem to always want a "professional" group of 4th line grinders, but in today's NHL, I'm not sure you need that. I don't know, our 4th line did look really good earier in the season, so I'm not ready to abandon it, but a 4th line of Zykov, Wallmark and PDG would probably be pretty decent at both ends and score more than our current situation.

 

That said, we'd have to move or waive the guys we have, and I don't see that happening.

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39 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

I'm still praying for the Thanksgiving trade for JVR and to send Faulk packing. Notice where these two JVR goals come from. Think we need some of that? 9 goals 6 assists in 18 games.    https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/video/recap-bos-2-tor-3-fot/t-277437436/c-54470803

 

I'd love to add JVR, but if we traded Faulk, we'd need to get an extension for JVR in the deal since he's a UFA next year. Problem is, he's 28 and looking to get paid. Also, he's not a center. But if you ask me, just put Lindholm in the middle and be done with it. (or possibly Aho). But JVR is a regular 30 goal guy, and we could definitely use that.

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

 

I'd love to add JVR, but if we traded Faulk, we'd need to get an extension for JVR in the deal since he's a UFA next year. Problem is, he's 28 and looking to get paid. Also, he's not a center. But if you ask me, just put Lindholm in the middle and be done with it. (or possibly Aho). But JVR is a regular 30 goal guy, and we could definitely use that.

Absolutely have to get a trade and sign. I'd move AHO to center as that's where the organization sees his future.

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8 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

We do have to consider our internal budget.  Our cheap owner may not add salary.  Although giving someone Faulk and Rask for a good offensive upgrade would help balance the budget 

 

Who would take Rask at this point? 15 goal, 25 point pace, signed for 5 more years at $4 million per. Hopefully he wakes up, because he’s not going anywhere.

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Long time no post... been about 8 years. Was Cane_Addict previously but forgot the password. Followed the boards since just without commentary.

 

Two things: glad to see we finally played a physical game for the first time this year. Even a few minor scrums. I cant help but think BP told the team this needed to be done. Very noticeable compared to the team that dodged contact and let up on hits regularly.

 

Couple that with the fact that we finally had a net-front presence and look what happened.... screens, redirects, and goals! How about that! Definitely need to keep that presence if we want to keep the goals coming.

 

Secondly: Luke DeCockVerified account @LukeDeCock 14h14 hours ago

Big crowd of NHL scouts (by November standards) at PNC for Canes-Stars: BOS, TOR, WSH, CHI, PHL, LAS, WPG, ARZ.

 

"Unusual" according to Luke.

Edited by cane-addict-1
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1 hour ago, Cane_Addict2 said:

Long time no post... been about 8 years. Was Cane_Addict previously but forgot the password. Followed the boards since just without commentary.

 

Two things: glad to see we finally played a physical game for the first time this year. Even a few minor scrums. I cant help but think BP told the team this needed to be done. Very noticeable compared to the team that dodged contact and let up on hits regularly.

 

Couple that with the fact that we finally had a net-front presence and look what happened.... screens, redirects, and goals! How about that! Definitely need to keep that presence if we want to keep the goals coming.

 

Secondly: Luke DeCockVerified account @LukeDeCock 14h14 hours ago

Big crowd of NHL scouts (by November standards) at PNC for Canes-Stars: BOS, TOR, WSH, CHI, PHL, LAS, WPG, ARZ.

 

"Unusual" according to Luke.

We're clearly shopping somebody. Maybe RF's got something up his sleeve.

 

Jooris wanted Roussel badly last night. They almost went after the final whistle, which was great to see. 

 

Welcome back CaneAddict!

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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OK guys, so the hype is starting after that great win. I was there to see 1st hand the hatty, and it was uplifting.

 

Now, 2 things. In your opinions, are we seeing the emergence of Our Identity, or was this just a flash in the pan occurrence, or is it somewhere in between?

 

Next, could this be the signal that Francis needed to aggressively seek out a signature trade? With the scouts reputedly at this last game, are they there in earnest and things happening under the radar, or was this just a convenient stopover? Just thoughts to mull over in this day after ecstasy!!! 

 

Oh, one last thing. Of the teams Canes_Addict 2 mentions, does anyone see a player there that might be of interest, AND Available, to RF?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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17 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

OK guys, so the hype is starting after that great win. I was there to see 1st hand the hatty, and it was uplifting.

 

Now, 2 things. In your opinions, are we seeing the emergence of Our Identity, or was this just a flash in the pan occurrence, or is it somewhere in between?

 

Next, could this be the signal that Francis needed to aggressively seek out a signature trade? With the scouts reputedly at this last game, are they there in earnest and things happening under the radar, or was this just a convenient stopover? Just thoughts to mull over in this day after ecstasy!!! 

 

Oh, one last thing. Of the teams Canes_Addict 2 mentions, does anyone see a player there that might be of interest, AND Available, to RF?

 

It's a flash in the pan until we become more consistent.  I know Toronto needs a D man,  Nylander or Marner come to mind.  

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Doubt it will be either but one can hope.  As for who we would trade:  Faulk, Fleury, or Hanifin.  I'm thinking we need a dynamic set up man more so than a finisher.  That's just me though.  Not sure how I feel about Marner and his size though.  Makes me nervous.

Edited by bluedevil58

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Well we are seeking O, Duh

 

Jets have a bunch of young O players. There D is pretty good.  A 4 person trade for them. Slightly better on D for them and slightly better on O for us.

 

Tor: Ek saying we’re interested in Bozak and they are interested in a dman not named Hanifin.  Yes I know I shouldn’t quote Ek.

 

Boston scouting Rask or Ryan to play center until they get theirs back from injury?

 

if we move Faulk, I would think Hjalmarsson would be a target from Arizona. Not sure who they would look at from us.

 

not sure who Philly or Washington would look at. Washington wants D.  Philly is good on D though.

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Thanks, gocanes. I doubt we're talking multi team trade like we've recently witnessed, but one never knows? Also the 2 from Toronto, I realize are very long shots. I have long craved Hjalmarsson, and had not thought of him as available. Don't know just where he'd fit in now, but he could bring some grit and goals, possibly be Step's replacement? Bozak, em don't know about that? Jets too?

 

Besides, just thought of it, Hjalmarsson would be just 1 more Black Hawks connection, ironically?  

Edited by KJUNKANE

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2 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Faulk for Marner, I'd do that...Faulk for Hjalmersson?  No way.  Need offense, not another d-man!

 

If we move Faulk to someone else, Hjalmarsson will be a target to replace him.  Not necessarily in the same trade.  Just guessing though.

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As bad as I want us to keep up this run and and be 11-5-4 on thanksgiving, I hope that wouldn't keep RF from pulling the trigger on an offensive trade.  That would actually be the perfect time to bring in more goal scoring and let Mckeown have a real shot at staying up IMO.  It seems Lindholm and Rask will never be what we hoped they would be(several seasons of waiting for one of them to break out, its getting ridiculous).  And with Aho not any where near ready to be a consistent goal scorer we are really going to need help to sustain.  This whole team looks different right now if those 3 were scoring along with Skins,Staal,Williams, TT.  But they are not.  We have to many streakers, and in the end that's not enough. What do you guys think?  If we are 11-5-4 or somewhere really close to that on Thanksgiving do we keep our "group", or still make a big trade with one of our D men? 

Edited by danimal-ch1

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3 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Toronto is who I was thinking bd58.And how I would love to see either of the 2 you mention in the Sightless Eye ?

Interesting that Toronto .was there considering we will see them in 10 days. As you know I have been shopping Faulk for JVR.

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1 hour ago, danimal-ch1 said:

What do you guys think?  If we are 11-5-4 or somewhere really close to that on Thanksgiving do we keep our "group", or still make a big trade with one of our D men? 

Always trade if you think it will improve the team Our defense is set. Tine to add a goal scorer and soneone who drives the net.

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