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raleighcaniac

To Trade, or not to trade

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56 minutes ago, remkin said:

I look at Nashville. Perhaps they are just a year or two ahead of us, but they went out and got a 1C and now a 2C in Johansen and Turris for a really good young D man and a bunch of picks/prospects. Hey, we have a really good young D man and a bunch of picks and prospects.

You forgot that little insignificant trade they made with the Habs to get that AHL level D-man named PK Subban ;)

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5 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

You forgot that little insignificant trade they made with the Habs to get that AHL level D-man named PK Subban ;)

Good point, I was thinking forwards, but yeah. Very active moving pieces around. It's worked out pretty well for them so far.

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When you have an owner who is willing to open up his wallet for the right personnel and a GM who is willing to roll the dice, it's amazing what'll happen.

 

Flip side is that you're up against the cap ceiling in a few years and then have to trade off asset after asset (cough CHICAGO cough)

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1 hour ago, AWACSooner said:

Flip side is that you're up against the cap ceiling in a few years and then have to trade off asset after asset (cough CHICAGO cough)

 

 

It's a good problem to have if you win 3 Cups in the process and don't go into an 8-year playoff drought afterward.

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14 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

Flip side is that you're up against the cap ceiling in a few years and then have to trade off asset after asset (cough CHICAGO cough)

Which is exactly what RF is determined to avoid, regardless of ownership, methinks.

 

Cap management begins with scouting. The fact that it took RF about 15 minutes to hire Nieuwendyk after taking the reins showed he understands that. Drafting the best under-the-radar guys you can and investing in their development in hopes they'll achieve top-six status is much more cost effective than buying a top guy and being handcuffed into keeping him by his NTC long after he has passed his prime.

 

If you can draft and develop reliably, a lot of guys will gladly opt for winning consistently and being paid extremely well over being the ridiculously overpaid Captain (or Alternate) of a sinking ship. Those who insist on long-term deals that look like Powerball jackpots, you move out for a good return, because in the end, there's one thing that matters more than anything else to the vast majority of players: Getting their name on the Stanley Cup. If you build an organization that can consistently challenge for the chalice, you've also built one that can manage the cap.  

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Supposedly Edmonton is trying to make a move. Patrick Maroon's name popped up. Of course RNH has been a constant, though ironically he's playing some of his best hockey.

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13 minutes ago, remkin said:

Supposedly Edmonton is trying to make a move. Patrick Maroon's name popped up. Of course RNH has been a constant, though ironically he's playing some of his best hockey.

I wonder what they are looking to add? Of course that makes a difference whether we are good dancing partners or not. 

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16 minutes ago, raleighcaniac said:

Like hell we can’t afford to trade him. Maybe 2-3 untouchables on the tesm. Faulk ain’t one of them.

 

1F0BE0B4-D795-440A-96A0-82AEC03131DB.jpeg

 

The vast majority of the people commenting about the article tended to disagree. :letssee:

Edited by LakeLivin

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We had a little bit of chatter on ROR about half way down here: http://fans.hurricanes.nhl.com/community/topic/24067-to-trade-or-not-to-trade/?page=4

 

Summing my thoughts, I'd like to get him, depending as always on what we give up. The latest chatter from Buffalo is Kane, but for the off ice issues, the UFA next year, and his being so injury prone, I'd rather have ROR personally.

 

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I'll have to try to catch a Sabres game and do some personal scouting on ROR, I'm not big on Kane. I want some attitude but he doesn't seem like a guy who gets along with anyone including his team. 

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ROR is good but Kane brings the edge and more goals I’d rather have him. I dont think he’d stay here once he becomes a UFA so go for ROR. I think he played for Peters when Canada won gold 2 years ago at IIFA Hockey Tourney that BP head coached. 

Edited by raleighcaniac

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14 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Which is exactly what RF is determined to avoid, regardless of ownership, methinks.

 

Cap management begins with scouting. The fact that it took RF about 15 minutes to hire Nieuwendyk after taking the reins showed he understands that. Drafting the best under-the-radar guys you can and investing in their development in hopes they'll achieve top-six status is much more cost effective than buying a top guy and being handcuffed into keeping him by his NTC long after he has passed his prime.

 

If you can draft and develop reliably, a lot of guys will gladly opt for winning consistently and being paid extremely well over being the ridiculously overpaid Captain (or Alternate) of a sinking ship. Those who insist on long-term deals that look like Powerball jackpots, you move out for a good return, because in the end, there's one thing that matters more than anything else to the vast majority of players: Getting their name on the Stanley Cup. If you build an organization that can consistently challenge for the chalice, you've also built one that can manage the cap.  

 

And how long does it take to build that kind of organization? Eight to ten years? Because we're in the fourth year of RF's rebuild already and this organization is nowhere near winning the Stanley Cup.

 

I don't disagree with the premise of building an under-the-radar, cap-efficient team for long-term success. But it seems to me that you can't put all your eggs in that basket or (1) you'll lose your fan base over the extended length of time it takes to build that kind of organization and (2) many of these under-the-radar guys are not going to achieve top-six status no matter how long they "develop"—which is why they were under-the-radar in the first place.

 

Yes, go after the under-the-radar guys and you'll find one or two, maybe even three, like Aho. But you're probably not going to find enough to fill your top six and become a Stanley Cup contender. You've also got to be willing to make a big trade or two to get a couple of elite scorers along the way, even if you have to overpay a little. So far, RF has not made that a move like that and it has cost us, IMHO.

   

Edited by spyglass88
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9 hours ago, spyglass88 said:

And how long does it take to build that kind of organization? Eight to ten years? Because we're in the fourth year of RF's rebuild already and this organization is nowhere near winning the Stanley Cup.

 

I don't disagree with the premise of building an under-the-radar, cap-efficient team for long-term success. But it seems to me that you can't put all your eggs in that basket or (1) you'll lose your fan base over the extended length of time it takes to build that kind of organization and (2) many of these under-the-radar guys are not going to achieve top-six status no matter how long they "develop"—which is why they were under-the-radar in the first place.

 

Yes, go after the under-the-radar guys and you'll find one or two, maybe even three, like Aho. But you're probably not going to find enough to fill your top six and become a Stanley Cup contender. You've also got to be willing to make a big trade or two to get a couple of elite scorers along the way, even if you have to overpay a little. So far, RF has not made that a move like that and it has cost us, IMHO.

I certainly don't disagree with any of your points, spyglass, or with the idea of trading for the right guy at the right time to get you over intermediate hurdles. That said, pinning big money and all your hopes on "that one guy we need" is a fool's errand. Forget the proof in that borne out by what JR did here. Just look at Buffalo, the Oil, and the Sens. 

 

The first two tanked to draft "generational talents" - something a few here advocated for this team doing. Three seasons in, Buffalo's the worst team in hockey and the Oil is four games under NHL .500. The Sens, meanwhile, who just went out got the "number-one center" we supposedly need so badly, have sucked since the moment they got him, and have fallen a game under .500. 

 

My point is that trying to buy success is a crap shoot, while developing an organization-wide ethic of competitiveness and winning, from the bottom up, is a strategy that breeds long-term success. The first option is going to result in a lot more years like JR's last five than like the anomalies of 2002, 2006, and 2009. Yes, lesser/Debbie Downer fans may quit, and I say good riddance. They'll be back when the wins start coming, claiming to have been diehard fans all along.

 

Anybody who seriously thought that the in-shambles organization RF inherited would be competing for a Cup four years later was delusional. So how long does it take? Time will tell, but smart pickups along the way like Willy, TT, TVR, Kruger, Nordy, Jooris, McKeown, Zykov, and Saarela should help shorten the process.

 

I don't think anybody here would disagree that if the Canes can consistently get the performances we've seen in the last two games, where they took three of four points from the two hottest teams in the league, they would breeze into the playoffs. Are they close to getting that kind of consistency? Again, time will tell. But what we know for sure is that guys are earning their spots on this team. IMO, that is a huge change in the organizational ethic that bodes very well for its future.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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