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The Thread about Goalies

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I mean...good for him....but a reasonably in shape person whose working out daily drops 10 lbs in 3 weeks? That's sketchy. That doesn't sound even remotely healthy.

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1 hour ago, legend-1 said:

I mean...good for him....but a reasonably in shape person whose working out daily drops 10 lbs in 3 weeks? That's sketchy. That doesn't sound even remotely healthy.

That sounds like water weight..... unless he's doing Nutra-system for men.

Edited by hopper915

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Darling was fine last night. It was everyone else that sucked, mostly because of the ridiculous schedule.

 

Players are reportedly not liking the bye week (which they wanted) because it's too much downtime. Ya think? I don't like it as a fan because it makes ridiculous schedules like this week's necessary. 

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Darling was fine last night. It was everyone else that sucked, mostly because of the ridiculous schedule.

 

Players are reportedly not liking the bye week (which they wanted) because it's too much downtime. Ya think? I don't like it as a fan because it makes ridiculous schedules like this week's necessary. 

Perhaps they should just extend the time off during the All Star break (say 2 extra days). That way all teams are off at the same time, so no one really has an advantage/disadvantage.

 

One thing I've been wondering (and I think it has been mentioned before) is what is the real problem with the goaltenders we have not name Cam Ward.

Khudobin was decent before coming here, played ok here but really couldn't grab hold of the crease away from Ward. Now back in Boston, a very serviceable backup to Rask.

Lack was a decent STARTER in Vancouver before coming here, played ok here before tanking/HCBP calling him out and is now toiling in the AHL.

Darling was decent before coming here, has not played anywhere near he did when he was with Chicago and is danger of becoming another statistic.

 

Is it an organizational issue?

Are we damaging potentially good goalies?

Is Cam hypnotizing them and planting subliminal messages in their heads to make them bad? ;)

 

Edited by hopper915
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34 minutes ago, hopper915 said:

Perhaps they should just extend the time off during the All Star break (say 2 extra days). That way all teams are off at the same time, so no one really has an advantage/disadvantage.

 

One thing I've been wondering (and I think it has been mentioned before) is what is the real problem with the goaltenders we have not name Cam Ward.

Khudobin was decent before coming here, played ok here but really couldn't grab hold of the crease away from Ward. Now back in Boston, a very serviceable backup to Rask.

Lack was a decent STARTER in Vancouver before coming here, played ok here before tanking/HCBP calling him out and is now toiling in the AHL.

Darling was decent before coming here, has not played anywhere near he did when he was with Chicago and is danger of becoming another statistic.

 

Is it an organizational issue?

Are we damaging potentially good goalies?

Is Cam hypnotizing them and planting subliminal messages in their heads to make them bad? ;)

 

Maybe it's culture shock: This franchise has been so degraded over the past 10 years that Darling publicly expressed gratitude this week for "little things like better food and buying equipment." I shudder to imagine what corners PK cut on bigger things over the years, things which NHLers just expect, only to come here and discover don't exist.  

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What to do about Darling? It is difficult to predict goalies. Sometimes they lose their game and in an instant find it again. Sometimes they don't. Darling has certainly overcome adversity in his life and career and I would not count him out of doing it again. There is no doubt in my mind that he has some technical flaws in his game and maybe they can be corrected. There is no doubt in my mind that much of his struggle is due to a lack of confidence for what ever reason, you know the mental aspect. When it starts going bad he doesn't seem to be able to shake it off. One bad goal leads to another and another and another.

 

The backup is probable going to be called on a minimum of 6 more times down the stretch.  Twelve important points. I think it is time to get Darling to Charlotte to work on his game. Let Ned have a chance. What do we have to lose but a game that with Darling we have a good chance to lose anyway. Let Darling regain some confidence, .let him do some soul searching. Bring him back if he regains form but help this guy get his game back.

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Let him get more playing time in CLT to try and exorcise the demons. If he isn't improving offer him up on waivers. Can we really afford to give him 10-15-6 more starts this year in Raleigh ? No. Go with Ned's the remainder of the way. I can accept Ned's performance either way as we never expected HIM to be the savior. I've seen enough of Darling this year and he should not get any more starts. Shut down the engine, get it to the repair shop or just sell it off for used parts. Sometimes you have to accept your losses.

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1 hour ago, slapshot02 said:

Let him get more playing time in CLT to try and exorcise the demons. If he isn't improving offer him up on waivers. Can we really afford to give him 10-15-6 more starts this year in Raleigh ? No. Go with Ned's the remainder of the way. I can accept Ned's performance either way as we never expected HIM to be the savior. I've seen enough of Darling this year and he should not get any more starts. Shut down the engine, get it to the repair shop or just sell it off for used parts. Sometimes you have to accept your losses.

You have to waive him to send him to Charlotte...not a bad thing based on the way he has played and his contract he should easily clear, but you do risk it trying to send him down.

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posted this elsewhere but, something to think about sending him down.  I was big on sending him down last night, off of emotion alone.

From an organizational perspective this is a very bad situation to be in.

Ned really doesnt look ready, although he has turned up play since Booth came up (feeling the pressure, maybe). Do we really want to Ned riding the pine here instead of playing?
Smith- hasnt been the insurance policy we had hoped for. We wouldnt have a problem with him riding the pine but I dont know that I trust him more than Darling in a game

IF, a big IF, Smith comes up, do we send Darling down? Let him play consistently to get his confidence back and maybe be a viable postseason backup. Then what do we do with Ned and Booth? They need to play too. Send them both down to Florida and split starts and bring up Ouellet to be Darling’s backup?

A lot of moving pieces here. Darling, Ned and Booth need to play for varying reasons.

Of course, that is only speaking of the near future. Next season and beyond are an issue. Bring back Cam Ward, see if Darling can turn it around, spring Ned or Booth too early, take another chance on another goalie? A lot of questions and situations too.

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I think most of us, while pointing out the flaws, were really thinking he might come around. He's had a couple of good games mixed in there. The game before last night was a good game. The NHL is full of goalies who struggle strugle then get hot. Suddenly Khudobin is an All Star? But what point is a big enough run to throw it in, at least for now?

 

On Ned. Yes, he has a nice winning record. But the Checkers score tons of goals for him. His save %  is .903. And that's facing AHL shots. As I mentioned in the GDT, sometimes guys come up and have a nice run because they are relative unknowns. This could buy us a send down. But he would be very very risky as the solution for the rest of the season.

 

If we send Darling down, would he clear? Would we care? If we abandon all hope, then we don't care. Except that we then have to pick up some sort of NHL proven backup somehow. If he is taken his salary goes away and Francis gets to try for a third strike in the find a goalie at bat. I think you still have to.

 

What Darling is doing is deflating the team. Yesterday was prime example. Yes, NJ was out hustling us. We were being hurried in our end and spitting up the puck and getting pinned in. BUT we got the goal. And arguably if not for 2 soft goals against would, at least in theory, have gone up 2-0. They would have had to press. And their goalie was spitting out rebounds like a tennis ball machine. This team actually showed great resiliency getting it back to 2-2 despite two softies. But then....one more goal is just a guy punch. I'm not saying the team stops playing, but there is a small margin in the NHL, and even a little let up, or change in play can be the difference.

 

Like plus/minus, a goalie's win/loss record is often misleading. But also like that stat, if it gets too outsized there is usually something going on.

 

Darling: 10-15-6. (10-21)  .839 ppg: if he played every game we'd end up with 69 points. Last year that would have been second to last. We have 63 now.

Ward: 17-7-3 (17-10) 1.370 ppg: if he, or a similar goalie had played all of our games, we'd end up with 112 points. Phenomenal.

 

This is so staggering that it deserves it's own post. But we NEED to move on from Darling at least in the short run.

 

Scott Darling is #53 out of 55 in save percentage in the NHL for at least 15 games played, but he has also played 10-12 games more than any other goalie with a similar save %. Darling is flat out terrible.

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10 minutes ago, remkin said:

... Darling is flat out terrible.

You could have put this first and then made the case :)  

 

I do appreciate all the supporting evidence.

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I pointed this out in the coach thread, but it bears repeating here. This team is, as it sits with it's coach, not a cutline team. It is a solid playoff team. Except for goalie.

 

Tavares? Yes please. But to make the playoffs, we don't need a single change at all in any skaters, period. It is an unassailable fact that if we had an average, let alone top 10 goalie tandem, we would be solidly in the playoffs as we sit.

 

Consider our record with Cam Ward as proof. As phenomenal as his record has been this year, still sits #31 of all goalies with at least 15 starts in save %. And as mentioned, Darling is #53. That' right. Our savior in goal is arguably not in the top 30 in goalies. And he's keeping us in it.

 

As well as this team is playing, there were two needs at the start of the season: skilled 1C, (or at least forward), and fix goaltending. Both remain gaping holes and still this team sits right at the cut line, but the most glaring remains the inability to fix the goaltending. And it affects more than just the goals that go in, it affects the play on the ice too.

 

Ben Bishop was also a goalie available. He is currently mid pack with a .918 save percentage and 1.14 ppg. Dallas scores a lot more goals for him, but let's just say that if he were here, he'd at least get us 1.1 ppg. (This is far less than Cam who has a worse save %). This would add 8 points to our total. Second in the Metro 2 points out of first. And this is with the #17 goalie, not a true stud.

 

I freely admit I don't know how to fix it. But this is problem #1.

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I'm just now catching up on last night's action, but I can pretty much tell what happened. 

Sounds like D-Day for Mongo.  I think he goes down, and RF makes a deal for a backup before the deadline. Maybe Lehner or Mrazek. IDK. I think they go get someone. We are just too close to not do anything in this department.

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3 minutes ago, sleekfeeder said:

I'm just now catching up on last night's action, but I can pretty much tell what happened. 

Sounds like D-Day for Mongo.  I think he goes down, and RF makes a deal for a backup before the deadline. Maybe Lehner or Mrazek. IDK. I think they go get someone. We are just too close to not do anything in this department.

I agree. That this team is absorbing the hit of Darling, and still sits in a playoff spot while being #24 in goals for, is nothing short of miraculous. Basically just about any goalie in the NHL would be better than Darling.

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3 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

what about Raanta?  2.53 GAA and a sv percentage of .920

It's funny I was looking at him too. He's a UFA next year, and only getting $1 million/year. The weird thing is that despite bouncing all over and having such a low salary, the guy has always had a good save %. He's also 28. He could be a rental with an option to sign as UFA.

 

If the Coyotes are not planning on re-signing him he could be a very nice option. And this is one that, even as a rental, would be worth overpaying for. This is the single thing that will keep us from the playoffs at this point. Throw a big offer at the Coyotes.

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1 hour ago, rocheccw said:

You have to waive him to send him to Charlotte...not a bad thing based on the way he has played and his contract he should easily clear, but you do risk it trying to send him down.

He could go down on a conditioning stint. I'll guarantee no questions would be asked. ,

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9 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

He could go down on a conditioning stint. I'll guarantee no questions would be asked. ,

Yeah, something must need conditioning as proven by his performance. Can conditioning include mental conditioning?

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As I think about Raanta, I think that from his point of view it might depend on what we do with Cam and Darling. The guy is finally a #1 goalie, albeit in Arizona whose short term prospects are not inspiring.

 

If we waive Darling and he's picked up, or if we plan to buy him out, we could do a trade and sign with Raanta. Especially if he's not sure about staying in Arizona. If I'm Arizona though, I want to keep him, so that probably makes a trade tough. Still, we could throw a lot at him, even as a rental with the idea of re signing him. Fixing goalie is that important. First rounder? I know that's usually nuts, but this team not only does not have a clear plan this year, or next year, but also no proven prospects after that.

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Someone needs to give Alves an M-16A2 service rifle and have another Marine call some rifle manual commands. After Darling and others watch him snap through stuff he learned 20 years ago, tell them to turn their brains off and execute from muscle memory. The brain cramps from the team, especially Darling, are what keep killing us.

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