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Ryan Trade Bait

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Feel free to move into the general to trade or not to trade thread.  Thought this specific question might warrant its own.

 

Saw D Ryan on TSN.ca as speculation for trade.  The prospective partner was the interest for me.  Those flightless fisheating Rutherford birds.  Should we consider this?  I would not think so especially to those ******.   Just my opinion.  I have a special place in my heart for them.

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48 minutes ago, cc said:

Feel free to move into the general to trade or not to trade thread.  Thought this specific question might warrant its own.

 

Saw D Ryan on TSN.ca as speculation for trade.  The prospective partner was the interest for me.  Those flightless fisheating Rutherford birds.  Should we consider this?  I would not think so especially to those ********.   Just my opinion.  I have a special place in my heart for them.

 

 

The big question is what GM in the NHL would be most-likely to overpay for him - and of course my expectation is that it would be JR.  He makes a ridiculous enough offer, RF would have to at least consider it.

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The last guy I want to see get another ring is not Cindy, it's not Evgeni, it's not Kessel. It's James Clueless Rutherford, and if Derek Ryan can help him get it, there's no way I do it.

 

Further, as I've said elsewhere, DR has value to this org right now as a platooning 4C with Kruger for the stretch drive. Moving him anytime before the deadline - or after, if the Canes are in a playoff spot on that date - would be plain dumb.

 

My guess: TSN looks at pending free agents and who they could help, then turns conjecture into content. I seriously doubt BP has been playing DR all year just to let him go when the depth he provides is most needed. 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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Ryan for Malkin, straight up! RF needs to put the screws to JR and JR needs to pay us back for screwing us over.

Edited by hopper915
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As much as I don't like the fact that he's our 3C, and as much as I wouldn't mind RF/BP giving Wallmark the chance that he deserves on the big stage, we shouldn't move Ryan if we are still in a position to contend.  Only way I trade him is if there was a package for a foward, which isn't likely to happen.

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This is an interesting discussion.

A couple of factors:

we only play Pittsburgh once more and none after the deadline.

Does JR overpay/ have the best offer in comparison to everyone else?

 

Not playing them is beneficial to us.  The trade cant hurt us from losing points to a strong game against us. A bump in their play could help us jump conference mates that lose to Pittsburgh head-to-head. 

 

Although Im in agreement with TS, no more rings for JR.  It’s hard to say yes to this deal.

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I don't see the benefit unless we get a real prospect with some sort of upside If it's the typical 3rd or 4th round draft pick if they have anymore they can keep it as that does nothing for us. Ryans worth possibly a 3rd round pick and if history tells me anything we'd likely get a 4th because I think he's worth a 3rd.

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If, hypothetically, you knew that we were not going to make the playoffs, wouldn't you want to get something out of a pending UFA that's unlikely to re-sign?

 

If, hypothetically, you knew that we were going to make the playoffs but get swept in the first round, would you do it?

 

I think the argument is that losing Derek Ryan weakens our playoff chances.  I like Ryan but I don't want to believe that Ryan is the difference between us making the playoffs or not.  If someone was silly enough to offer us a draft pick for this pending UFA, I'd take it.

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Trading Ryan right now straight up makes about as much sense as a double decker outhouse. Yes, if we are out, but not until. He is not all that, but he is more valuable than he's getting credit for at the moment and until BP sees fit to use Lindy or TT or Aho at center, we don't have a better 3C option, at least not one that is proven better. 

 

If we really plan to move Ryan we should call up Zykov or Foegle and move Lindy to center and see how that goes first.

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11 minutes ago, super_dave_1 said:

unless they are trying to create a spot for a Checker.

I've been posting a lot about this for the past several days, but not knowing how many have taken the time to read those posts (and not being proud!) I'll repost my proposal for creating a roster spot for the stretch run... but in list form (for a little variety):

 

- Waive PDG or Jooris

- Move Ryan to 4C, and platoon him with Kruger

- Staal, Lindy and Rask become the top 3 Cs

- Move McGinn to the fourth line

- Insert Zykov (my preference if added scoring is the object, though his D looks suspect) 

- Whomever remains of PDG or Jooris and whichever of Ryan and Krugs is not playing become the forward extras.

- Here then would be the lines down the stretch (subject to juggling, of course):

 

TSA

Willy - Lindy - Zykov

Skins - Rask - Stemp

Nordy - Ryan/Krugs - McGinn  

 

 

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36 minutes ago, wa1010 said:

If, hypothetically, you knew that we were not going to make the playoffs, wouldn't you want to get something out of a pending UFA that's unlikely to re-sign?

 

If, hypothetically, you knew that we were going to make the playoffs but get swept in the first round, would you do it?

 

I think the argument is that losing Derek Ryan weakens our playoff chances.  I like Ryan but I don't want to believe that Ryan is the difference between us making the playoffs or not.  If someone was silly enough to offer us a draft pick for this pending UFA, I'd take it.

For me, injury down the stretch is the wild card, and in terms of that, yes, Ryan probably does more than anyone to preserve our hopes of getting in. Games get more physical. Ryan can play any forward position and (importantly to BP's system if a C goes down) win face-offs.

 

I don't accept the premise that he won't be re-signed. Each of his prior deals have been for one year, and he just turned 31. RF signed a blind-in-one-eye Manny Malhotra at age 33 (or 34, can't recall) for BP's first season; possession is that key to the system he plays. Ryan is doing the same job as Manny, only better.

 

We can agree to disagree, but I'm also not sure this is a one-round team. It's beaten the toughest teams in the league, often convincingly. 

 

All of that being said, I DO agree that if adding Ryan to a deal right now can bring back a bonafide top-six scoring forward from a team NOT IN OUR WILD CARD CHASE, you have to do that deal. But strengthening the Pens? No.  

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I don’t agree with Lindholm at Center.  It’s been tried multiple times throughout his 5 seasons, he’s starting to have success at RW where we’re already thin, and BP himself has said that’s where he’s better off at this point.  I say keep our forwards as is until either we add at the deadline or until the offseason.

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Wait what?  I thought I've seen plenty of Ryan bashing lately??   Now suddenly everyone loves him and doesn't want him traded?  Weird.  I'd trade him in a second if it improved our team with the return or a package deal.

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21 minutes ago, Danimal38 said:

Wait what?  I thought I've seen plenty of Ryan bashing lately??   Now suddenly everyone loves him and doesn't want him traded?  Weird.  I'd trade him in a second if it improved our team with the return or a package deal.

I'd trade anybody if it made the team better.

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Every trade always has to be considered in light of the return. We are all assuming that the return on Ryan, straight up is maybe a second round pick from a team likely to pick close to the third round, at best, maybe a low third rounder. The will not improve out team. Not now and probably not ever. So unless there is a better guy to step up into that role it absolutely means this year's team is worse, not better.

 

This is not antithetical to Ryan not being that good. It is exactly because he's not that good that the return would be that bad (that and he's basically a rental). But is he a better third line center than Kruger? Wallmark? etc.

 

Of course as a throw in to a deal that brings back a center, say ROR, then it becomes a mute point, which is why I say straight up and right now, it makes zero sense.

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8 minutes ago, wa1010 said:

So, Ryan now, is the glue that's going to get us to the second round.  Guess I didn't realize his importance.

Yeah, that's what I said...:rolleyes:

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26 minutes ago, wa1010 said:

So, Ryan now, is the glue that's going to get us to the second round.  Guess I didn't realize his importance.

Who would you play at 3C if we trade Ryan now for picks?

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13 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Yeah, that's what I said...:rolleyes:

 

If I was responding strictly to you or your post I would have quoted you.  Sure, you have the only post that suggest we could get into the second round but the general consensus seems to be we can't afford to lose our 3C/platooned 4C.

 

I suppose the next couple weeks may go a long way to determine his relevance with the org.

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23 minutes ago, remkin said:

Who would you play at 3C if we trade Ryan now for picks?

 

Seems like we have a lot of centers.  Checker site lists Foegele as a "F".  If Foegele is a Center, I'd go with him.  If not, maybe try Aho at 3C and bring Foegele (or Zykov) up to fill a wing opening.  Maybe Wallmark (assuming Lindholm is definitely a "no").  I don't really follow the Checkers so I like to hear the coach's opinion of who might be ready to move up.  Maybe Roy or Saarela, who don't really have the stats, might be a better fit if the coach/scouts think they're more ready.  I probably wouldn't push either of those two though.  Poturalski?  Maybe give Kruger a shot (don't think he has the offense chops for 3C but has he been given an opportunity).  Who else takes faceoffs?  Nordstrom?  Give Aho 2C and move Rask to 3C?

 

Generally I listed these in the order I'd probably prefer them.  Moving a chex up to fill 3C doesn't disrupt TSA.  Giving Aho a shot at C might go a long way to determine if he's ever going to go back to C (Aho centering Skinner and Stempniak could be a high scoring 3rd line).  We really need to start giving some of our prospects shots to get to the NHL.  Especially as a reward for excelling in Charlotte (Foegele/Zykov).

 

Edited by wa1010

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I would argue that Ryan is better than all of those options at this point. Foegele is not a center, nor Zykov. Roy is not ready. Wallmark or Saarela would be the center options from Charlotte, but it is far from certain that they'd come up and even get close to Ryan's production let alone out produce Ryan. Lots of AHL players take a while to find their NHL scoring if they ever do. Poturalski looked bad last time we tried. Nordstrom is about the only guy who has scored less than the other option of Kruger. 

 

Scoring at the NHL level is not easy and Ryan at least does it. 

 

I'm all for upgrading at center. Been on about it a long time, all I say is make sure it's an upgrade before moving a center out for a pick.

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