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FRANCHISE FIRED?!?!?!

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2 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

with no GM now, who makes the decision to bring up AHLers should the HC want,

 

The word transition was used so I suspect Francis, at least in name will still make the decision. I wouldn't expect any wholesale changes for the rest of the season but rather a AHL player used here or there. But I don't know maybe.

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1 hour ago, NomarRamon said:

Now if only Peters were the next and followed closely by Ward, yes, the overrated, under performer that the good old boys have kept in place all these years. The greatest mediocre goalie to play 13 seasons leading team to NOWHERE (sorry, he did NOT lead the team to a Stanley Cup, he simply had ONE good series as a young rookie). If only we hadn't given up Khudobin but that was a great example of why Francis had to go. So the darling favorite of the uneducated fans with all the wrong moves who manages to convince the coaches he's more than he's ever been... Ward say's no? Please! we need to wake up and say NO to Ward as a first step. There does seem to be a core to build on but they need some butt kicking to stay motivated and Mr. Peters is not it. 4 years of the loser is enough.

Well not to get off topic, but you might want to go watch your Stanley Cup highlight DVD. After Gerber lost the first 2 at home, Ward swept the Montreal series, and I believe he backstopped all but 2 games in the entire SC run. Maybe that’s why he won the Conn Smythe. Is he what he used to be or what we would like him to be? No. But if you think Cam is the problem with this team, I beg to differ. They rode him like a rented mule for 10 years, with backups like John Graham and Justin Peters. The biggest problem with the team was an owner who wanted champagne on a beer budget. Most of the crappy decisions since’06 go right back to that.

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1 hour ago, NomarRamon said:

Who's Greg? I assure I am not. If Greg could have posted what i just did then he must have been and astute poster. I have watched Ward since his first season and he has never demonstrated high skills. I played the position (through college) and as a result found it easy to pick apart his glaring weaknesses and poor fundamentals. He is just not very good but for some reason his good 4 games in 2006 made him a mainstay.

I forgot to add that Khudobin is having a good year this year, but spent most of last year in the “A”

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Obviously, Dundon is a results guy. Francis managerial style seemed awful timid, and Dundon is a bold get it done now owner. Not sure who will be coaching the team next year, but I foresee significant roster turnover. Anyone who wants to stay better show up for work 15 times the rest of the way!

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Been reading through posts on this thread fairly quickly, so apologies if I inadvertently skimmed over any opinions on this....

 

TD stated that "a change in direction is needed when it comes to hockey personnel decisions", yet moves Francis to Director of Hockey Operations. If he truly believes we needed a change, why on Earth would you keep the guy around who's direction is what we need to move on from? It feels like they couldn't decide whether to keep RF around or fire him, so they did both. Be decisive one way or the other. We've seen what indecision has done to this organization for years now.

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ok, I'm out from under a rock, but seem to have beat Remkin anyway.  Only 4 pages of brief comments. :)

 

Anyway, glad to see Dundon finally acted.  Now we can still love RF and have a GM to take care of business.  Needs to fill this quickly to ready for July 1 and draft.

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6 hours ago, Stealth-ch1 said:

Been reading through posts on this thread fairly quickly, so apologies if I inadvertently skimmed over any opinions on this....

 

TD stated that "a change in direction is needed when it comes to hockey personnel decisions", yet moves Francis to Director of Hockey Operations. If he truly believes we needed a change, why on Earth would you keep the guy around who's direction is what we need to move on from? It feels like they couldn't decide whether to keep RF around or fire him, so they did both. Be decisive one way or the other. We've seen what indecision has done to this organization for years now.

 

I mostly agree here.  However, we don't know his job description.  Let's hope it has nothing to do with scouting, for goodness sake!  In my opinion the scouting org needs a turn over.  But I digress...

 

It is not uncommon in the business world for someone to be fired and given a ceremonial role for a while as they are shown the door.  Ronnie has a unique position with the fan base.  Granted, it seems like most of us are over it here and are in full torch and pitchfork mode, but there are others who would be very critical of the team for being so unkind to someone who is nearly the face of the franchise. 

 

It reminds me quite a bit of a CEO being fired and ask to be chairman of something, while they slowly melt away.

 

I suspect Ronnie won't be doing a whole lot.  He'll fade away.

 

Now, prepare yourself because VIce-Face of the Franchise is next.  Roddy.

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7 hours ago, Stealth-ch1 said:

Been reading through posts on this thread fairly quickly, so apologies if I inadvertently skimmed over any opinions on this....

 

TD stated that "a change in direction is needed when it comes to hockey personnel decisions", yet moves Francis to Director of Hockey Operations. If he truly believes we needed a change, why on Earth would you keep the guy around who's direction is what we need to move on from? It feels like they couldn't decide whether to keep RF around or fire him, so they did both. Be decisive one way or the other. We've seen what indecision has done to this organization for years now.

 

To answer your question, the new GM will reportedly report directly to Dundon.  The more I think about it, that has to be a toxic idea of not including your President of hockey operations in hockey decisions.  But then again, different franchises in different sports run things in a similar way.

 

I found out about this because last night because Big Mike posted it on Facebook during the middle of my workout, and I know sometimes he plays practical jokes.  While I love RF to death, I’m not too upset by this move.  As I’ve said before, I just think there’s been too many big names moved that could’ve gotten the team over the hump the past two seasons.  A lot people blamed PK for restricting RF’s budget, but I’ve heard RF say he had the green light to spend money.  And RF also said he has been involved in talks to acquire big name players, but either the seller found a better buyer or was asking too much.  I personally think that he just didn’t want to come off of assets, and wanted something for nothing.

 

Moving forward, I’d imagine the next GM coming in will bring more flare to the team.  One name that comes to mind is Tim Murray.  I know the Sabres aren’t doing too good on the ice, but when he was in office there, I remember they were rumored to be after every big name you could think of, even if it didn’t make sense.  Also, I think as a rule of thumb, when a GM is replaced, the coach is not far behind.  And I like that Dundon seems to not mind that BPhas two more years on his contract.

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Dundon fired (ok...moved) a guy whose number hangs in the rafters.

 

brass.jpg.1a25a032e24657bdcbc8ba8f40bc51e9.jpg

 

We need a little of that around here.

 

A sports franchise is a toy to a rich owner.  Yes, it's a business too, and they want to make money.  If it loses money, it's a tax write off, so it's hard for a regular guy like me to even grasp the economics of it.  I think it's safe to say that it's a hobby for these guys.  A new owner like Dundon is going to want to play with his new toy.  He also wants the shiniest toy on the playground.  All the other owners had a Nintendo Switch, and RF was trying to convince Dundon that the Playstation 2 was still good.

 

Rich guys don't get rich by being conservative.  They don't get the concept.

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Top shelf nowhere to be found.  Those 50 years of watching hockey didn't help him see this coming.  He's probably in a corner crying. 

 

 

Edited by bluedevil58

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This move has to be the beginning of a clean sweep.  New GM needs latitude to select his own coach.  That cascades to assistant coaches, etc.

 

We need an interim GM first.  Jason Karmanos would fit perfectly to poke the old man.

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9 minutes ago, Manwolf said:

This move has to be the beginning of a clean sweep.  New GM needs latitude to select his own coach.  That cascades to assistant coaches, etc.

 

We need an interim GM first.  Jason Karmanos would fit perfectly to poke the old man.

 

 

No thanks on JK - i'm happy to let that part of the past remain in the past.  Agreed about the new GM needing to select his own coach.  I'm wondering if that's why Peters is still here - i think he and RF had very different outlooks and i think TD wants a GM who's more like Peters.  If he ends up with one, it should be up to the new GM whether or not to keep Peters around.

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11 hours ago, slapshot02 said:

TD is impatient.  If it doesn't  work,fix it.

Months ago I made a similar comment.  That being that this franchise will not be successful until someone comes in and on DAY 1 has a sense of urgency.  No "5 year plans" that mean nothing in this day and age and maybe never meant anything.  The most successful franchises in any sport are those that have that sense of urgency immediately.

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11 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

I expect Peters to also be out when the season concludes.

I think Peters is a very good coach, but has never really been given the chance to see what he can do with a good roster top to bottom.  I think the house cleaning needs to happen first with the players.  If I were king there are about 9 players I would focus on keeping.  Give Peters one year with a strong roster.  If he can't get it done then make a change.

 

However, regardless of who coaches they have to figure out what to do in goal.  At this stage of his career I think Cam would make an excellent backup, but who is number 1?  The SD experiment failed miserably, and I am not sure how you get out of it considering the money they would owe him.  Without a number one in goal the Canes can change management, coaches, and skaters, but it won't matter.

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Without a what if machine I'll never know if RF was picking substandard players at his draft position or if BP's ruining them. With that said please start with a clean slate because the smoke needs to be cleared from the room entirely with no hangovers to get this complacency issue out of the locker room. Any holdovers risk infecting the new  era.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, reelpirate5 said:

 

However, regardless of who coaches they have to figure out what to do in goal.  At this stage of his career I think Cam would make an excellent backup, but who is number 1?  The SD experiment failed miserably, and I am not sure how you get out of it considering the money they would owe him.  Without a number one in goal the Canes can change management, coaches, and skaters, but it won't matter.

 

Buyout.  The team has plenty of cap space.  The owner has the pockets to pay it.  Wiz comes off the books next season.  TD would have to cough up $4M for the combined HWSNBN and SD for 3 seasons, and then $2M 3 more seasons, and also a hit on the cap.  

 

Not optimal, but doable.

 

In my opinion, the SD move has been so catastrophic it has to be part of the reason for this firing move to a new position.

 

Now, how did this happen?  Scouting.  Not just RF, but pro scouting.  And the Boychucks of the world?  Scouting.  I will be surprised if a scouting shakup doesn't happen real soon.  It really needs to.

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Well, the Knights started with nothing and look at them! Maybe Dundon is looking for a GM like McPhee to put a team together like that. My PO is that Dundon is willing to go out on a limb to get a highly aggressive, highly physical team next year. He has seen us being pushed around and owned on the ice and he seems like a guy that wants to go all the way his first year. It will be interesting to see what we end up with next season but I expect to see a lot of new faces next season.

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The one glaring issue I have always had with Francis is his inability or reluctance to make a player for player trade.  In 4 years.

 

Personally, above everything else, I think this is why he and Dundon by all reports don't see eye to eye and what got him the boot out the door. 

 

I expect that the dominoes will begin to fall fairly quickly.  The draft is only a few months away and the org doesn't need to be dicking around.

 

Move forward.

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What I'd expect:

 

TD has a name or two in mind that he knew would be highly sought after in the off season. (i think we'll see Buffalo, NYR, Ottawa, Chicago, Arizona, and Edmonton all looking for new GMs)

Unless TD has been talking out of both sides of his mouth, BP gets to do the final year of his contract.  If we arent securely in the playoffs next year, he is gone.  If we squeeze in 8th, I bet he doesnt stay either.

We'll see 1-3 checkers playing.  We only get 4 roster moves so Im not sure if that is only call-ups or if that is call-ups and send downs.  If the 4 roster moves is both up and down, then we may only see one checker as we postured to send 3 back down for the playoffs.  

 

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15 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

What I'd expect:

 

TD has a name or two in mind that he knew would be highly sought after in the off season. (i think we'll see Buffalo, NYR, Ottawa, Chicago, Arizona, and Edmonton all looking for new GMs)

Unless TD has been talking out of both sides of his mouth, BP gets to do the final year of his contract.  If we arent securely in the playoffs next year, he is gone.  If we squeeze in 8th, I bet he doesnt stay either.

We'll see 1-3 checkers playing.  We only get 4 roster moves so Im not sure if that is only call-ups or if that is call-ups and send downs.  If the 4 roster moves is both up and down, then we may only see one checker as we postured to send 3 back down for the playoffs.  

 

Peters may get that 5th year, but let's be honest...new owners always come in and praise the team already in place.  It means nothing.  I'll bet I could find some quotes from Dundon that praised Francis early on.

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If I was to rank his 4 years:

 

Incoming Trades/Signings

Very good- Turbo Trade

Good-Williams, UFA
ok- Stempniak UFA, Ryan UFA
Neutral- Nordy trade, TVR trade, Jooris
Bad- Kruger trade, McClement UFA, Wanting more than Hall for Faulk and missing out, not making a big move last draft, Rask signing, Malone UFA
Fire-ably Bad- Darling trade & signing, Lack ditto, “we like our group”

 

Out going trades

Sekera Trade- Neutral. McKeown hasnt been given any time. Gauthier hasnt looked 1st round worthy

Versteeg Trade- looks good if Zykov ever gets to the big club

Staal trade- Hard to tell, Staal's value was pretty low at the time.  Used a 2nd round pick to get Turbo.  Looks bad because Staal is doing so well and we need a scoring center. 

 

 

Draft

2014.  Fleury, slow build. Really could have used Nylander.  Ned, we'll see.  Foegele and Wallmark seem like solid 3rd and 5th round picks

2015. Hanifin, rushed but has his flashes.  Passed by Werenski as a better defender.  Aho, his best choice.  Booth, Roy, and Cotton seem like solid depth players in the later rounds

2016. Helvig and Kuokkanen look like they have a better shot at getting to the big club before Bean or Gauthier.  Elynuik and Carroll look like solid depth pickups.  

2017. Necas is the new hotness, so we'll see.  Mattheos may be tops for best pick outside of round 1 or 2 in RF's time.  Foegele has the title for now.  

 

GMRF did a great job of building depth on the team with rounds 2-7 drafting.  He failed to find the same value in the 1st round.  His best moves were getting Turbo and drafting Aho.  He had plenty of bad and firea-ably bad moves.  His need to win every trade cost us. He didnt want to make fair moves, shown by his unwillingness to move Faulk for Hall straight up.  

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