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AWACSooner

FRANCHISE FIRED?!?!?!

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I saw that in Dillman's twitter. Was just my opinion considering how high Lombardi thinks of him. Leafs failed as did the Canucks and Sabres and considering Futa's scouting background and pretty good success, I can't see why Lombardi would all of a sudden be ok with him leaving. I know GMs usually support their assistant managers if they have a chance to advance elsewhere but the guy seems to be a little gem to have around. I guess we need to wait and see what comes out of it.

 

 

  

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11 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

Going for an assistant to the GM is like going for a back up goalie who we think is ready to be a starter.   Hard pass.

No, I really don't think there is any similarity there, bd58. I mean, after all, goalies are known for their quirks, are they not? These change regularly, thus not knowing from year to year how any of them will perform.

 

With respect to Asst GM to GM, don't you think it would be nice to have an apprenticeship prior to throwing them to the wolves? How else would you like our next to be hired? Or from what line of work? 

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2 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

No, I really don't think there is any similarity there, bd58. I mean, after all, goalies are known for their quirks, are they not? These change regularly, thus not knowing from year to year how any of them will perform.

 

With respect to Asst GM to GM, don't you think it would be nice to have an apprenticeship prior to throwing them to the wolves? How else would you like our next to be hired? Or from what line of work? 

 

Former hear GM would be my ideal choice. 

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BD58, if hiring an assistant GM is like an unproven backup goalie, then you could also say hiring a former head GM is like hiring a former/failed #1 Goalie. There is always a reason the GM is no longer employees, could be nothing or something..RF is a former head GM now. Would you hire him if you owned a franchise? 

Personally I think it will be a roll of the dice regardless of the direction we go, just hope it turns out well.

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51 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

Going for an assistant to the GM is like going for a back up goalie who we think is ready to be a starter.   Hard pass.

You haven't even looked at his history, clearly. I think even you would have to agree he's crammed a lot of experience at very high levels (at every level) into his 50 years.

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I am still puzzled by the choice of Waddell, who didn't seem to have anyh chemistry with TD at the purchase press conference. I guess TD decided he liked Waddell's initiative even if he didn't seem to agree with the decisions. I had posted in another thread that I thought RF fate would hang on wether TD fealt the lack of moves were the result of poor initiative or poor judgement. His comments about wanting someone who would he could work with and look at all the input tell me that he fealt RF lacked the initiative to make the decision or ability to consider other's opinions.

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1 hour ago, Whaler1 said:

I saw that in Dillman's twitter. Was just my opinion considering how high Lombardi thinks of him. Leafs failed as did the Canucks and Sabres and considering Futa's scouting background and pretty good success, I can't see why Lombardi would all of a sudden be ok with him leaving. I know GMs usually support their assistant managers if they have a chance to advance elsewhere but the guy seems to be a little gem to have around. I guess we need to wait and see what comes out of it.

 

 

  

Lombardi is no longer in LA, and Rob Blake and Luc Robitaille probably aren’t going to hold Futa back if he has the opportunity to be a general manager. 

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Thanx. My bad. Was reading an article about some of the boneheaded decisions Lombardi made before he got canned when I typed the reply. 

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I just had an opportunity to really read up on this topic. At this point I’m all for what shake-ups need to be made. I like RF but my loyalty to the overall team/franchise trumps that of one or two men. We’ll see what other messages Dundon drops and what this all leads to.

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Well I picked a great time to go off the grid. I need to get back to reading this whole thread before weighing in, but I think I might win the award for "most interesting way of finding out about the Francis news" award.

 

I was on a short cruise to the Bahamas. The last day, I put on a Canes' T shirt. First off, I must have had 10 people yell "Go Canes" to me. Very surprised, but there are some Canes fans out there.

 

But while having breakfast a guy came up to me and inquired about my Cane's Fandom. I told him I was a big fan and STH and posted a lot on these boards. Then I asked if he was a Cane's fan. Turned out he was Brock (and Jamie) McGinn's father. Had a very nice chat with him. Told him we love Brock. He said Brock loves Raleigh. Then mentioned that Brock had texted him that something was going on with Francis, maybe moved upstairs. After our chat, he got back to texting with Brock, and came back over and told me the news.  Very nice guy. BTW Jamie looks a lot more  like his Dad than Brock.

 

Anyways, I'll weigh in later about the move. I know everyone's been waiting for that. :sarcasmalert:

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Whew!  Welcome back, Rem.

 

I was afraid you were in the hospital with flu or something.  I tried to not mention it with the hope you were just out. 

 

Yes, your timing is awesome!

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OK, just read this entire thread. Very good stuff. Some of my takes are similar, but for what it's worth:

 

I have long held that the rebuild had phases, like accelerating through the gears of a sports car, the GM has to be able to change gears and move into the next phase. Francis never did. I happen to think he did a fairly good job early in phase one: off load the bad contracts, get picks and prospect, and phase 2, draft and develop, I'd still give him a good grade, particularly the first couple of years. But he could not get the thing out of second gear. Third gear is making hockey trades and UFA signings to supplement the inevitable holes in the product of gears one and two. Second gear went into the redline and started smoking. The trade deadline was not THE reason, it was just the moment that the gears froze up and the engine blew. Francis had all of last off season and all of this season up to the TD (ironic that's our owner's initials too), to make it happen. He failed.

 

The bottom line for me is that all elite teams in this league have elite players. Sort of obvious, though we've debated it in the past, but it's true. Francis said he wanted to build a team that competes year after year for a cup. Well to do this you need elite players. You need at least one super elite player. It is not easy to get them. But that is a major part of the GM's job: to find a way to get at least one star player. This is what the Canes have mostly lacked my entire time as a fan. A superstar. We don't have one. Those guys are worth more than just their numbers. Those guys are so good that they make everyone else better. Those guys put up their huge numbers despite the other team putting their top shut down player on them. You simply need at least one guy like that, and the best teams have at least two up front. The key positions are goalie, elite D man, and top 1C. Do we really have even one of those positions filled with top players?

 

I think it was Luke, but I read it somewhere, that Francis learned the lessons of where JR went wrong, but he learned them too well. But JR made good moves with the bad, especially when they all came together and he assemble Cup winning talent. I do not buy that Francis inability to make the move to get us that player was due to PK's budget. Yes, PK was cheap at times, but we are SOOO below the cap, and Francis mentioned that he had the green light to make a move if it "made sense". I think that was the key. Not one deal ever "made sense" not one. Francis wanted an edge on every trade. He wanted to incrementally "win" trades until over time all of those "wins" added up to good team. He was simply too risk averse. It was assets he did not want to move (more than money) and he did not want to make a move that didn't seem to be a clear winner. But sometimes you make a hockey trade. This guy for that guy. Because we have different needs that the other guy. I can move past the UFA thing, but never once being able to execute a hockey trade to bring in more talent was, to me the deal killer (so to speak).

 

For me the shine started to fade on the "In Ron We Trust" thing in the draft two years ago. Ironically, the year I got to have lunch with him. After drafting D men with our first pick two years in a row, and in desperate need of a talented forward, and with a bag of picks to trade with, and with the implication that he was going to do something in the draft, he did essentially nothing, and just stepped up and made all of our picks including using our top pick on D man #3 in a row. He had loaded up with picks (we had two first rounders and three third rounders). I don't disagree that Bean seemed to be the BPA at #13, and the forwards left were all "iffy". But could he not find some deal to move up? Even if it were a big "overpay" we needed that forward badly. Two spots up: Tyson Jost, 4 spots up Alex Nylander, 5 spots up Clayton Keller, and 6 up, Matt Tkachuk. It would seem to be worth throwing in our late round pick and a third to move up and get any one of those guys. Then, after nothing there, nothing after that in terms of trades. Not for an entire year further, and then all of this year.

 

I do think that Francis has built a base and I think Necas has elite star potential. (Though imagine adding Necas to say Clayton Keller and not having Bean or Gauthier). I also think that some of our yutes will develop both in the system and guys like Hanifin and Fleury, and the new GM will benefit from those moves. But for Francis to benefit, he would have had to have gotten this thing out of second gear at least ONCE in the last 1.5 years. He did not. I'm sure Dundon had other reasons too, but that, and two huge fall down swinging whiffs on goalie moves were the things for me.

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Welcome back Rem. It is a relief to not have to try to fill the void of your posts. A few of us have tried, but I think our word count is a little low?

Glad to hear about the McGinnis. My wife and I have met Pesce's parents, great people, and I feel it gives a little insight into the players personalities and work ethics that you get unfiltered from the media. I can honestly say I wouldn't want to be Brett if he screwed up, his mom would kill him.

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Great timing DDK, just ripped off one of my longer ones (been trying to keep them at least a little less long). But even then I left a lot of on the cutting room floor. Hey, this is big news, at least one long post is in order.

 

McGinn's Dad was great. He mentioned he'd like to talk again later and I sure would have, but alas it was the last full day and we never crossed paths again. I did ask him about not playing favorites with two sons on different teams. He said true, but seemed to let on that he liked the Canes better. Of course Brock's been drafted and come up through our system where Jamie is in his first year in Florida after being on other teams.

 

Anyway, surely one of the highlights of the trip for me.

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The Peters thing is interesting. Luke surmised that Peters was much more of a Dundon type of guy than Francis. Also Peters sort of laid the groundwork for saying that he didn't have enough talent and then watching Francis flail and not get much more of it all off season and all season. Francis even called Peters out for saying it. Seemed to be a "one of them must go" scenario where we see who went.

 

I look at it as mostly a case of not having enough elite talent more than a bad coach or system. When one considers the lack of elite forward talent with the debacle of Scott Darling, it is nothing short of amazing that we are anywhere near the cut line (of course other teams are helping with that). I think of the Detroit teams playing the same system with and without Lidstrom and Datsuk in his prime. Totally different outcomes same system with and without elite players.

 

Then I look at what Dundon said about Peters. That the new GM would have a vote. A vote. Not the decision, a vote. Then he said that Peters himself would have a vote. I know he meant that he would have to say he wanted to stay, but it was pretty deferential.


The standard line would be that Peters would be out. He's already way past the typical "no playoffs" coaching shelf life, and he will need to survive a new owner and a new GM, but Dundon sure seems to like him, and that would suggest he gets at least one more chance.

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I will say one other thing on what the new GM will have that Francis did. By drafting the BPA, and allowing that talent to develop without trading it, the new GM will inherit guys with increasingly more trade value. Hanifin is worth more. Fleury is worth way more. And if Zykov and or Foegele, Kuok, Roy, etc become NHL players they will be worth more too. The fact that D men take longer to develop probably played at least some role in Francis just running out of runway. If he'd have drafted forwards and flipped them for D, he'd have been better able to make that move sooner. Not that he would have. But the cupboard is pretty deep with decent prospects, I'll give him that.

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