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The Search (Hurricanes need a GM)

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44 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Isn't it funny, coastal, how people who think they are in the know are the same ones who don't understand how reporting, sourcing, or journalism works--and the ones who "distrust the media"?

 

It was mentioned earlier that it's on the fans to take a report as factual until it's proven otherwise.  I really don't think that's how this works at all.

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3 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

It was mentioned earlier that it's on the fans to take a report as factual until it's proven otherwise.  I really don't think that's how this works at all.

 

Take what is told with skepticism until you have researched on your own.

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I did my research, it was a "report" on a panel discussion that I happened to watch that is yet to be confirmed as fact by any other creditable media outlet.  Other than those just repeating the same thing.  Research meets skepticism.

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Just now, coastal_caniac said:

 

Can't argue with that.  It's our job here. :thumbsup2:

 

Ok this made me chuckle. Well done!

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4 hours ago, OBXer said:

The boot of Francis a respected hockey guy leaving the organization in what appears to be a decision by committee for the interim, while at the time still in a slim but possible playoff hunt and by a new owner without a hockey pedigree screamed out for the hockey world to get out the microscope.

Good OBXer, it's time for a chuckle I think. 

 

You did sum up the dadgum situation nicely here. Get ready for more I assume.

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1 hour ago, coastal_caniac said:

It was mentioned earlier that it's on the fans to take a report as factual until it's proven otherwise.  I really don't think that's how this works at all.

Correctomundo. 

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8 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

I'm calling it now.  We start the season with Waddell is the interim GM.  The season ends with him being removed as GM.  Technically speaking, O'neill tweet and then hockey night in Canada are 2 different places that cited the low salary.  Technically that is multiple sources. 

 

I am just saying. 

I’ll take that bet. My money is on Waddell being gone on opening night next year. I agree the timing of “reassigning” RF was terrible, but I have a feeling he may have walked and the “reassignment” is just putting lipstick on a pig. As things stood when he was let go, the Canes would have been better off waiting until the end of the season to make the change. Unless there is a great candidate out there who is currently unemployed, no executive with a successful organization is going to resign 12 games before the playoffs start. But if Ronnie and Dundon were completely out of sync there is no reason Francis needed to stay one day longer than he was comfortable in his job. Dundon has been successful in every business he has been involved with, at least as far as I know. There may be some growing pains, but I believe he will get the franchise turned around. One thing that is now clear, and more so than when RF was let go, is that the team as presently constituted is too flawed to make the playoffs, much less make a deep run. Jordan’s virtual admission that some of the players have accepted a losing culture is all you need to know to realize a significant roster shakeup is in order. THE most important move Dundon has to make is to bring in the right GM, and he should take as long as he needs to find the right fit. The search may have gotten off to a rough start, but that doesn’t mean it will not end up with the right guy. TD has only been here 2 months. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt a little longer than that.

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14 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

 Jordan’s virtual admission that some of the players have accepted a losing culture is all you need to know to realize a significant roster shakeup is in order.

This. There have to be substantial changes. My guess is that Francis could not be trusted to make them. He liked our group. His entire GM tenure involved moving out.....zero established players or prospects or picks that were not heading into UFA.

 

Sorry but Skinner has thrown in the towel. The line between "offensively dominant, defensively barely acceptable" Skinner, and "offensively weak defensively embarrassing" Skinner is a level of effort that he has backed off of for at least 12 games but arguably more. This guy wears and A.

 

Faulk, well oddly he has looked a bit better of late, but still, changes are needed and he's still atop my list.

 

Rask. I agree that there was a version of Rask at the start of the year two seasons ago that looked oh so promising, but no. Sure last night vs. the worst defensive team in the league he looked good, but he's had so many chances to get it back. He could be a very good 4th line center, but we aren't paying him that way and will he want that?

 

Lindholm is a solid player, and if he takes third line money I still want him, but I really thought he'd be a 60 point guy this year.

 

Hanifin has tons of talent, but this guy needs to clean up his D zone play to be that guy. Still so young, but who's going to make him do it?

 

I would trade any of those guys TBH, but I'm afraid Skinner and Faulk should be at the top of the list. And with Skinner it really stinks because this team needs goals. We'd have to trade him for a more North - South guy with a little less high end goal totals, but still skilled.

 

Anyway, the timing of the Francis thing, and letting it get public was a rookie mistake, but rookies eventually become veterans if they learn from their mistakes.

 

The bottom line to me is that when this team shows up to camp next year, they need a reason to think that things are going to be different. That the losing has stopped. That the talent is here and the hear is here: the guys who have been willing to accept losing are gone.  That has to happen. And Ron Francis was not the guy to do that. He's a tinkerer and we need a visionary man with a plan.

 

I want to stay a fan of this team, but it is getting really hard to keep going through this. I really am starting to feel like a bit of a chump for staying with this team at this level for so long after being kicked in the cods so many times. I'm hanging in there, but even I cannot spin an Island out of "we like our group" one more time, and I for one am increasingly glad that Dundon is making changes, even if it gets a bit ham-fisted at first.

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33 minutes ago, remkin said:

Anyway, the timing of the Francis thing, and letting it get public was a rookie mistake,

Or a very shrewd way of getting AGMs all over the league thinking about it. Guys who engineer $700 million buyouts typically think (much) longer term. Would you want any of the candidates already floated if they WERE willing to interview with another team before the current campaign is over? And if the 400k price really was floated, what self-respecting hockey lifer is going to take it? Not one I'd want, either. 

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17 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Or a very shrewd way of getting AGMs all over the league thinking about it. Guys who engineer $700 million buyouts typically think (much) longer term. Would you want any of the candidates already floated if they WERE willing to interview with another team before the current campaign is over? And if the 400k price really was floated, what self-respecting hockey lifer is going to take it? Not one I'd want, either. 

Who knows? Maybe a genius move. Feels more like a mistake to me, though I really don't know. Thing is though, even if it was a "mistake" it could end up working out fine. I personally think that the whole "decisions by committee" new, unknown, hands on owner thing probably has a role in scaring off top guys.

 

I think he needs to let the season play out, talk very low key, behind the scenes, and maybe make another run at a top asst GM after his team is out.

 

Low balling the new GM just makes so little sense, it's hard to believe. Yet he has not denied it, so again, who knows? If true, that would not be good. We are trying to lure a really smart guy from a winning organization for what is half of what a league minimum player makes? Just hard to believe.

 

I will say that I really do think that Dundon wants to go outside the organization. I see no chance that Waddell, or someone else inside gets the spot.

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Switching gears, at this juncture it's pretty obvious to me Francis was fired due to no moves being made at the deadline.  The deadline was on the 26th.  The decision to let RF go was around the 2nd.  Timing leads me to believe that TD saw we were in the hunt, watched Francis do nothing, then was like *edit*.  Anyone else think the same?  I know it was clearly stated they were in agreement at the TDL that no moves could be made.  But I am just not buying it due to the timing of the events.

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39 minutes ago, remkin said:

If true, that would not be good.

Again, it might be an elimination tactic. I wouldn't hire a hockey lifer who wold accept that amount, and doubt Dundon would either.

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27 minutes ago, remkin said:

Who knows? Maybe a genius move. Feels more like a mistake to me, though I really don't know. Thing is though, even if it was a "mistake" it could end up working out fine. I personally think that the whole "decisions by committee" new, unknown, hands on owner thing probably has a role in scaring off top guys.

 

I can sort of understand that, but not completely.

 

From my uninitated perspective, aren't *all* personnel decisions nowadays made by committee? I can only speak from my experiences in the non-pro sports world, but the past few businesses I've worked for have used team interviewing of new candidates, and at the end of the day the hiring manager or HR asks for input from everyone who spoke to the candidate to find out their impressions, etc., but the hiring manager and/or HR are the ones making the final decision. Aren't NHL GMs supposed to listen to their scouting staff, etc. about draft choices or trade targets who would fit into the team structure and system?

 

Wasn't that one of the knocks on RF as GM - that he didn't like to draft a player he hadn't seen play? That sounds far more autocratic than what I assume the usual pro-sports personnel director/GM/hiring entity would be. Why would the Hurricanes want to hire a new GM who is the same as the one they just 'promoted' out of the GM position?

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42 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

Switching gears, at this juncture it's pretty obvious to me Francis was fired due to no moves being made at the deadline.  The deadline was on the 26th.  The decision to let RF go was around the 2nd.  Timing leads me to believe that TD saw we were in the hunt, watched Francis do nothing, then was like *edit*.  Anyone else think the same?  I know it was clearly stated they were in agreement at the TDL that no moves could be made.  But I am just not buying it due to the timing of the events.

 

I'd posted a longer reply to this, but I decided that it was over-the-top. It wouldn't be the first time that management used "creative window-dressing" to smooth things over for public consumption.

 

I wonder if it wasn't the lack of trade deadline action that caused RF's 'promotion', but his reaction to the losses just after the trade deadline. That is, RF says "BP isn't getting the best out of our players. I want to fire him." TomD says "no, I like the job he's done and I don't like you questioning my judgement."

Edited by JonKerfoot

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I'm not worried about TD turning things around.  I haven't seen enough to worry.

 

Make the necessary GM and coach changes.  I think that will get more out of the many players who have underperformed, or given up hope.  Yes, the GM/Coach have their work ahead of them, but there is a core set of talent that is sufficient to work with.  Hopefully the hunger in Charlotte materializes into a few guys that can play.

 

This season was lost in the February homestand.  RF just clinched it at the deadline and deserved the early axe.  The losses hurt less now as the schedule thankfully ends soon.

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One of my observations about all of this is the crocodile tears cried for Francis by all his "buddies" throughout the league.  Aren't we all a great hockey community protecting our own against the outsiders?

 

It seems to me that 2 cold hard truths are hitting many of the "traditional" league guys.

 

1.  PK isn't here anymore, therefore his skinflint low-budget crap is no longer a guarantee

2.  GMRF is now gone, so Ronnie No-Trade is no longer the non-threat that he was when trying to compete for players.

 

I think the league liked the Carolina Hurricanes just the way they were.  Cheap, easy to read, and destined for 9th every season.  And they'll do whatever to throw a monkey wrench into the new works under the guise of propriety. 

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Yup, Hag.

 

On changing the GM, it was time.  RF seemed good at the tearing down part of the remodel, but couldn't pick out the floors and paint.

 

On the coach, if you are going to change the GM, now's the time.  Pastor Bill may be a great coach (or not), but his sermons may be falling on deaf ears. 

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12 minutes ago, hag65 said:

One of my observations about all of this is the crocodile tears cried for Francis by all his "buddies" throughout the league.  Aren't we all a great hockey community protecting our own against the outsiders?

 

It seems to me that 2 cold hard truths are hitting many of the "traditional" league guys.

 

1.  PK isn't here anymore, therefore his skinflint low-budget crap is no longer a guarantee

2.  GMRF is now gone, so Ronnie No-Trade is no longer the non-threat that he was when trying to compete for players.

 

I think the league liked the Carolina Hurricanes just the way they were.  Cheap, easy to read, and destined for 9th every season.  And they'll do whatever to throw a monkey wrench into the new works under the guise of propriety. 

 

And which is EXACTLY why I take nothing the Canadian media throws out there as fact.

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