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bluedevil58

The Bill Peters Watch

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Hey, we've go 6 more games to go to find out.  I think his plan and the team plan may be a tad different.

 

Either that, or the plan is for early tee times, just after the exit interviews.

 

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This entire scenario is friggin strange. Peters looks like he's not only lost the group,but his mind as well. He has no clue what to do. Every interview seems like he's suprised to even have a job and is saying without saying, fire me already, UNCLE

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Peters had turned it on the GM, but with the GM gone, he is now turning it on certain players without naming them. He's clearly stating that certain players need to be gone after the season. Will the Owner clear out the GM and certain players and let Peters continue? It would be very unusual. The old, you can't fire half the team so you fire the coach thing, combined with eventually the losing coach loses the room, combined with the need for big change will likely mean the end of Peter's days as a Cane. I don't know if it's Peter's fault, but he has completely lost his assistant captain. Skinner has zero goals in his last 11 outings, is a minus 8, and looks like a guy playing just hard enough not to look like HWSHBN.

 

I continue to think that Peters will end up being a very good coach, but how can he be the face of change? It would seem that the only way would be a huge player shake up in the off-season, but even then, it is probably not going to fly. It is really hard to see him back. The need for overt change will be bigger than a new GM.

 

What is interesting is that there are several proven, big name coaches on the hot seat. Of course if things go like our GM search, good luck getting one of them, but it would be interesting if we did. A new GM and a new coach, as well as a serious player shake up. I think all of that is needed.

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22 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Ok, I gotta ask: what player strengths do you see BP missing out on?  What system do you think would boost the production of the players we've currently got?  Canes under BP have been pretty much near the top of the league when it comes to possession stats and giving up shots. We're not so great at preventing goals or scoring them ourselves.  Given our goaltendeers save %s, galtending seems to be a big reason for the first.  I still contend that we're really short on scoring talent, but I'd be curious as to whether you see something we could be doing differently to take better advantage of the players we do have.    

 

14 hours ago, winger52 said:

 

When the new coach gets here we shall see.

 

I sure hope not.  Because whether it's a new coach or BP, if we have the same players (which is what you'd need to allow a comparison of how our current players could be used to better leverage the talent we've got), our new GM has failed right off the bat.  

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A coach who gets improvement from his team might stay awhile longer, the coach who ends up with declining results get Rice-A-Roni at the door on the way out. How much longer do we wait ? Tear the band-aid off and lets move on. Hire a coach with NHL experience with a two year contract with a five year renewal. Get them going or get gone. No more " he's going to be a great coach someday ". We've been waiting for that miracle too long.

Edited by winger52

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Peters had turned it on the GM, but with the GM gone, he is now turning it on certain players without naming them. He's clearly stating that certain players need to be gone after the season.

 

Sure seems that way, doesn't it.  I wish he had the kahoonies to name some guys.

 

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1 hour ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

Sure seems that way, doesn't it.  I wish he had the kahoonies to name some guys.

 

Except that significantly devalues those players if you're looking to get some return via trades. At this point in the season if I'm the Canes I'm in poker mode when it comes to players.  Player X? Awesome guy! Great work ethic! An asset to the team in more ways than one!  The "just don't throw me into that briar patch!" strategy.

Edited by LakeLivin

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On 3/17/2018 at 12:00 PM, MisterDobz said:

A great coach gets his players to play above their potential.

A good coach gets his players to play up to their potential.

a bad coach can't get their players to play up to their potential. 

 

Darling.... Skinner...  Rask...  Faulk..

 

Peters is a bad coach.

Then why did all three of the listed skaters have their career-best years under BP?

 

And Willy, Staal, Aho, TT, McGinn, TVR, Fleury, Slavin, and Pesce haven't exactly sucked.

 

As for Darling, yeah. If he's as good as we'd hoped, we're in. But it seems to me RF made five acquisitions last summer, only two of which have performed: Willy and TVR. Skinner's been paired with fourth liners. Rask has been disappointing on offense but great on D. Faulk has been awful all around. 

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On 3/17/2018 at 2:12 PM, super_dave_1 said:

 

I thought you were saying Ward was no MAF.  I was pointing out that there isn't as much difference as most think, and probably closer if Ward hadn't been ridden like a mule

 

My point was that in save pct and GAA you are right, they are close. But both, when they played full seasons, played in the neighborhood of 55-65 games. That's a pretty standard workload for a #1. So while I think all of here acknowledge that Cam couldn't handle the workload, I think a distinction needs to be made: When you're making #1 money, the workload Cam played is right in line, and their divergent winning percentages point up that the workload (combined with years of Joe Corvos and Brett Bellemores)  was too much for him. Sadly, once JR committed $6 million a year to him, we were never gonna have serviceable backups, let alone one that would be reliable for 30-35 games instead of 20-25.  

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3 hours ago, remkin said:

Will the Owner clear out the GM and certain players and let Peters continue? It would be very unusual.

It would indeed. But TD is owner who puts much stock in a collaborative management structure, as he has already stated in some detail.  Based on the $ucce$$ he's clearly had with that structure and his plain statements about the coach being the first thing he looked at, his statement that he is "doing everything right," and more recently that BP will get a vote on whether he stays, we might just see "unusual."

 

I think a lot will depend on how known, well-liked, and trusted BP is with the new GM. The hockey community is small and pretty insular. This is one of their own, a guy who has won at every level brought national pride to Canada at the IIHFs--and has been deprived of the level of talent everybody on these boards has known the Canes have lacked for his entire tenure.  

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2 hours ago, winger52 said:

Hire a coach with NHL experience with a two year contract with a five year renewal. Get them going or get gone. No more " he's going to be a great coach someday ". We've been waiting for that miracle too long.

He's already a great coach. But you can't polish a ****.

 

All this talk of "great coaches." Any successful manager (or honest coach) will tell you that the door to motivation is locked from the inside. The Canes' official player hats actually have "living the dream" stitched above the snaps on the back of them. If you put that damned hat on your head but still can't find the self-motivation, pride, hunger--whatever you want to call it--to give 110 percent every game, there's not a coach on the planet who can motivate you to have those things. They come from inside.  

Edited by top-shelf-1

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

Except that significantly devalues those players if you're looking to get some return via trades.

Or, it perfectly sets up the "change of scene" sales pitch the new GM is gonna use anyway in trying to move them. GMs look at stats. They're gonna do that whether BP publicly dresses guys down or he doesn't.

 

(Sorry for all the consecutive posts, all. Just catching up after a few days away.)

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Opinions differ, but if I'm GM I don't want an opposing GM I'm negotiating with to be able to say to me "hey, your coach (ex?) just said that Faulk (or whoever) didn't buy in to the team / was giving it his all / whatever.  And yet you want Y in return?"  Now earlier in the season, where calling out a player might have made a difference to our playoff chances, I could see maybe doing it.  But not now imo.

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6 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

My point was that in save pct and GAA you are right, they are close. But both, when they played full seasons, played in the neighborhood of 55-65 games. That's a pretty standard workload for a #1. So while I think all of here acknowledge that Cam couldn't handle the workload, I think a distinction needs to be made: When you're making #1 money, the workload Cam played is right in line, and their divergent winning percentages point up that the workload (combined with years of Joe Corvos and Brett Bellemores)  was too much for him. Sadly, once JR committed $6 million a year to him, we were never gonna have serviceable backups, let alone one that would be reliable for 30-35 games instead of 20-25.  

I’m too lazy to dig up statistics like this, but I don’t think Cam had many, if any, seasons where he played 55 games from 2007-2014-5. Many years, closer to 70. We’ve lacked a serviceable backup for far too long. Ironically, now Cam could be the serviceable backup if only we had a league-average starter.

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14 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

I’m too lazy to dig up statistics like this, but I don’t think Cam had many, if any, seasons where he played 55 games from 2007-2014-5. Many years, closer to 70.

I did look them up. Cam played more than 70 games exactly once, in 2010-11 (74 GP), the first year of his 6 x $6 million deal, and played 68 the year after. Those were the two best years of his career, and followed the season that he was cut by Rick Nash's skate (09-10), when he played 47. 

 

Earlier in his career, Cam played 60 games in 06-07, 68 in 07-08 and 69 in 08-09. If that seems heavy, it's not: An 80-to-85 percent workload is typical for NHL #1 keepers. Since 2011, his workload has looked like this:

 

12-13: 17 GP (strike year, injured March 3 [lower body])

13-14: 30 GP (returning from injury) 

14-15: 51 GP

15-16: 52 GP

16-17: 61 GP

 

Your reply suggests that I claimed he played 55 on average. I actually said 55 to 65 on average, which was an overestimation. If you throw out his three injury-shortened seasons, Cam has averaged 56.9 games per year (69 percent, in an 82-game schedule). With those years, the average drops to 51 (62 percent of games).

 

I'm not disputing that Cam has been a workhorse. But (1) that's why they're called #1s, and (2) compared to other #1's around the league, his lifetime average for appearances in full seasons is markedly below the norm.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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18 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

Opinions differ, but if I'm GM I don't want an opposing GM I'm negotiating with to be able to say to me "hey, your coach (ex?) just said that Faulk (or whoever) didn't buy in to the team / was giving it his all / whatever.  And yet you want Y in return?"  Now earlier in the season, where calling out a player might have made a difference to our playoff chances, I could see maybe doing it.  But not now imo.

 

I think any scout with the talent to make it to the NHL would report all of that to his GM without BP saying it. It's not a secret, BP can't devalue them any further they've devalued themselves.

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Peters has to go, which is too bad because I do think he’s a good coach. But the team has clearly quit on him based on what we saw tonight. I’m hoping Chicago lets Quenneville go and we pick him up before he hits the pavement.  This team needs an *edit* kicker who will take no crap and hold players accountable.  For whatever reason that isn’t Peters, at least not at this point. 

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4 minutes ago, Californiahurricane said:

Peters has to go, which is too bad because I do think he’s a good coach. But the team has clearly quit on him based on what we saw tonight. I’m hoping Chicago lets Quenneville go and we pick him up before he hits the pavement.  This team needs an *edit* kicker who will take no crap and hold players accountable.  For whatever reason that isn’t Peters, at least not at this point. 

It almost looks like Bill quit on the team tonight.

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1 hour ago, caniac6 said:

It almost looks like Bill quit on the team tonight.

Agreed. I just think he knows they’re done and he’s out of ideas. Dundon says that Peters gets a vote on whether or not he stays. At this point I can’t imagine he really wants to stick around. I’m sure if Bill votes with his head and not his heart (or wallet) he’ll vote “no”. 

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1 minute ago, Californiahurricane said:

Agreed. I just think he knows they’re done and he’s out of ideas. Dundon says that Peters gets a vote on whether or not he stays. At this point I can’t imagine he really wants to stick around. I’m sure if Bill votes with his head and not his heart (or wallet) he’ll vote “no”. 

I don't think we can know how he'll vote unless/until he gets the talent he's been asking for since the end of last season. I do think the vote thing is interesting. Assuming he wants to stay and the new GM wants his own guy, TD would get the tiebreaker. 

 

Interesting times.

 

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1 hour ago, Californiahurricane said:

This team needs an *edit* kicker who will take no crap and hold players accountable.  For whatever reason that isn’t Peters, at least not at this point.

Or, he hasn't been free to do so until now. I can totally see RF micro-managing the lineup. His mentor/predecessor sure did.

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I’m pretty sure Peters is gone, and probably happily so. We can’t get rid of the whole team, and it’s unclear that more than a few are listening to him anymore. It’s like bringing Darling back. If you bring back Peters and even with personnel changes we’re stuck in neutral 30-40 games in, another season is down the drain. It’s just time for a new voice.

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