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bluedevil58

The Bill Peters Watch

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6 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

His simple comment that winning hurts hit it right on the head. The team isn't committed to hurt every night.. They give 100% one night and it hurts and they then hope the next game  they can glide without enduring the pain and sneak out a victory 

Thank you. Exactly.

 

Hockey hurts. Go hard or go play in Arizona.

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16 minutes ago, remkin said:

The thing is that the will to compete and wanting to do what it takes and wanting to be here were the things Francis listed at the very top of his list of attributes he wanted in a player. Ahead of speed. Ahead of size. And probably ahead of even ability. So if he's not seeing that from guys, what is he doing about it?

What he can afford to, which - until about 20 minutes ago - was next to nothing. 

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33 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

 

 

 

The elephant in the room when folks simply say "bring up the AHLers" is waivers. 

 

 

I'm one who has advocated for bringing up the AHLers and am aware of the waiver issue. I'm 100% serious that I wouldn't care if PDG Jooris or even Kruger were claimed on waivers.This would be an opportunity to see what we have in Charlotte. Are they bench depth or are they trade depth?.

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24 minutes ago, remkin said:

The thing is that the will to compete and wanting to do what it takes and wanting to be here were the things Francis listed at the very top of his list of attributes he wanted in a player. Ahead of speed. Ahead of size. And probably ahead of even ability. So if he's not seeing that from guys, what is he doing about it?

I will actually give him a pass due to PK but not now. If he doesn't do anything about it  if TD is truly going to offer up his assets then we have a major problem Houston.

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24 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

Isn't it the coaches job to motivate the players?

No, this isn't high school. If they aren't motivated it's time to go. Do you need your boss to motivate you every day?

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I'm calling B.S. here guys.  If our players truly are losers then why has Peters not benched them, sent them down to minors, and call up our prospects that are hungry?  Yet another flaw, with this HC IMO.  Why hasn't he acted and made a statement?  No benching of Faulk, Skinner, Jordan, etc.  

Edited by bluedevil58

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27 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

I'm calling B.S. here guys.  If our players truly are losers then why has Peters not benched them, sent them down to minors, and call up our prospects that are hungry?  Yet another flaw, with this HC IMO.  Why hasn't he acted and made a statement?  No benching of Faulk, Skinner, Jordan, etc.  

 

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I call BS on your call of BS.  To bench someone or send them down requires you to have someone to bring up AND THE BLESSING OF THE OWNER AND GM TO DO SO.  Now that we have a new owner, I'm willing to see what happens next. 

 

I see players that dont don't hate to lose.  The coach may be part of that, but there is an institutional environment and culture of losing that needs an enema.

Edited by super_dave_1
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1 hour ago, bluedevil58 said:

I'm calling B.S. here guys.  If our players truly are losers then why has Peters not benched them, sent them down to minors, and call up our prospects that are hungry?  Yet another flaw, with this HC IMO.  Why hasn't he acted and made a statement?  No benching of Faulk, Skinner, Jordan, etc.  

Multiple reasons but one of which is called waivers. Are you willing to let them go for nothing?

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Given all of the flaws with our players identified above, maybe BP walks at the end of the year before any chance of another HC opportunity is gone. And while there were a lot of good points made, I go back to 2 things. PK was always looking for steak on a hamburger budget, especially after he got his steak once. That issue should be behind us, but it’s not going to salvage this year. More specifically to this year, I think most agreed Darling had to be a credible #1 for us to make the playoffs. He has what, 9 wins in 28 starts. Cam was actually doing great as a backup, but he’s not been the same when we started rolling him out every night. I have some issues with BP, but Mike Babcock (or insert name of favorite coaching genius) can’t win with a starting goalie winning 9 out of 28.

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So that's it?  We're letting BP completely off the hook?  When a team loses, everyone shares the blame.  You want to blame the players for not playing hard enough?  I'll give you that.  You want to blame not having the personnel to compete?  Sure.  I blame GMRF for dropping the ball on our goalie situation, and we still don't have a top-tier scorer this team has desperately been missing.  But when you have 8 players on your team that have scored 40+ points before, and a highly-touted young blueline, we are a bottom half team in nearly every statistical category, and I can't in good faith completely let our coaching staff off the hook.

 

There's a reason Mike Babcock got signed for a $50 Million deal, and it's not just because of his system.  He inspires and challenges his players on a day-to day basis.  I've followed other sports, and I've heard out of coaches mouths that they consider it their responsibility to get their players focused.  A coach's job goes beyond simply drawing X's and O's, he manages the team on a daily basis for 7-9 months out of the year.  He should know these players abilities and personalities, and when a player's off, needs a little more motivation or discipline, etc.  And I personally blame BP for not having net-front presence.  From day one, he stated if guys don't want to play the right way, then he takes away ice time, but net-front presence is non-existent on this team.  There's more examples I could give, but BP certainly has his short-comings that I feel are part of the problem.

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6 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

I'm calling B.S. here guys.  If our players truly are losers then why has Peters not benched them, sent them down to minors, and call up our prospects that are hungry?  Yet another flaw, with this HC IMO.  Why hasn't he acted and made a statement?  No benching of Faulk, Skinner, Jordan, etc.  

Here's another question: why don't read all the responses here before you "call BS" and ask more questions? You asked why BP is a good head coach and a whole bunch of your fellow posters took the time to answer in detail, and the answers address all your new questions. They are also based on real facts, while it's pretty clear your call of BS is based purely on your personal displeasure. But your displeasure doesn't change those facts.

 

So, rather than summarizing them all here in one post, I'm going to invite you to actually read and devote some objective thought to them. You asked this topic's thesis question after all. Then, after you've given all the responses here the same time and consideration all that those who took the time to post them have given your thesis question, I'd ask that you point out, very specifically, what you think is "BS" and why, based on equally compelling and provable facts. I'm really sincere in this, BD, but each time I've asked you to respond to facts with something other than emotion, you have ignored my invitation, for has turned into years. 

 

My hope is that this thread you created and the question it posed is sincere, and that you'll prove it by acknowledging the sincerity of the responses here by refuting those you consider "BS" with facts of your own. Otherwise, how about admitting that other posters have made valid points? There's no shame in that; it allows for real conversations to occur and is the stand-up thing to do. "Calling BS" without citing facts to support that claim, however, is the easy way out, and suggests all you've got is misdirected anger.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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2 hours ago, PenaltyKiller17 said:

There's more examples I could give,

So do it. 

 

BP has preached net-front since the day he started, and exactly two guys,have gone there on anything approaching a regular basis, and THEM only of late. Not the logical guy; not the biggest center we have. How is that BP's fault? Should he bench Jordan so the PK sucks too? Send him to CLT to get claimed off waivers?

 

As BDC asked, could Babcock win with a #1 keeper who wins a third of his games? No. So... should BP put on the pads? Steve Smith? Rod? Jorge Alves????

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Im short on expertise and have no inside source for what really goes on in the org. like many of you. From my armchair observance, I see several years of the same, last place in standings, horrible plus/minus, cant score, cant defend, etc... Im definitely not in the BP camp, imo he has had the best talent to work with than Kirk or Paul.. Yet same results of players not getting any better...Im sure the true reasons for the poor play is a little of all the comments above...... im just sick of watching the same ole outcome, game after game.. 

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As I've said, I don't know if BP is the total problem.  It's hard to know from the outside what has been going on in the inside.  My biggest observation (as I have said) is the relative ease that the players have with losing.  I'm a sore loser.  I know that we were taught NOT to be sore losers.  Winners hate to lose.  Losing eats at winners' souls.  Blaming BP is easy, but we have a lot of whipping boys. 

 

The Canes would win if only they had a good head coach.

The Canes would win if only they had league average goaltending.

The Canes would win if only Faulk didn't suck.

The Canes would win if only Jordan Staal would play up to his size.

The Canes would win if only Rask didn't suck.

The Canes would win if only the power play didn't suck.

The Canes would win if only Eric Staal wasn't lazy.

The Canes would win if only HWSNBN wasn't lazy.

The Canes would win if only Kirk Muller could figure out why his car ran in the ditch.

The Canes would win if only they'd stop with the dump and chase.

The Canes would win if only Paul Maurice didn't try to sit on a one goal lead.

The Canes would win if only Joni Pitkanen would stop doing Joni stuff.

 

This list could go on forever.  I think we need an exorcist as much as a new coach. There are some demons that need to be cast out.

 

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This rebuilds really far in to have a roster so accepting of losing and I'm not sure how you purge that attitude because in my opinion we bring guys in and the losing attitude sucks the life out of them and claims another soul. But can you flip 50% of the locker room where we don't take talent losses in the process?

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8 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Here's another question: why don't read all the responses here before you "call BS" and ask more questions? You asked why BP is a good head coach and a whole bunch of your fellow posters took the time to answer in detail, and the answers address all your new questions. They are also based on real facts, while it's pretty clear your call of BS is based purely on your personal displeasure. But your displeasure doesn't change those facts.

 

So, rather than summarizing them all here in one post, I'm going to invite you to actually read and devote some objective thought to them. You asked this topic's thesis question after all. Then, after you've given all the responses here the same time and consideration all that those who took the time to post them have given your thesis question, I'd ask that you point out, very specifically, what you think is "BS" and why, based on equally compelling and provable facts. I'm really sincere in this, BD, but each time I've asked you to respond to facts with something other than emotion, you have ignored my invitation, for has turned into years. 

 

My hope is that this thread you created and the question it posed is sincere, and that you'll prove it by acknowledging the sincerity of the responses here by refuting those you consider "BS" with facts of your own. Otherwise, how about admitting that other posters have made valid points? There's no shame in that; it allows for real conversations to occur and is the stand-up thing to do. "Calling BS" without citing facts to support that claim, however, is the easy way out, and suggests all you've got is misdirected anger.

 

I called BS on the motivation portion.  How BP calls for accountability and yet never holds anyone accountable for anything IE Faulk, Skinner, ETC.

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1 hour ago, legend-1 said:

This rebuilds really far in to have a roster so accepting of losing and I'm not sure how you purge that attitude because in my opinion we bring guys in and the losing attitude sucks the life out of them and claims another soul. But can you flip 50% of the locker room where we don't take talent losses in the process?

 

 

Talent with the wrong attitude is talent that we can afford to lose.

 

Show a pulse, Francis...

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3 hours ago, super_dave_1 said:

A I think we need an exorcist as much as a new coach. There are some demons that need to be cast out.

 

This wouldn't be the first timer a Hurricane team had an exorcism. https://sports.yahoo.com/juniorhockey/blog/buzzing_the_net/post/whl-with-losing-skid-at-unlucky-13-hurricanes-hold-exorcism?urn=juniorhockey,wp3159

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11 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

I called BS on the motivation portion.  How BP calls for accountability and yet never holds anyone accountable for anything IE Faulk, Skinner, ETC.

 

 

I think motivation and accountability are two different things.  As pointed out, these guys are being paid millions to play the game they love and winning should be its own motivation - Peters shouldn't have to be a cheerleader to get the guys going.

 

He absolutely should be holding them accountable though.  I wonder if he isn't or if he can't.  Wasn't it JR who made Laviolette rush his injured vets back in and pull Bayda/Aucion/etc that one season, ultimately causing the team to fall out of the playoff picture?  I wonder if Peters chooses not to hold players accountable or if RF is blocking his efforts to do it.  Faulk needs to watch a couple games from the pressbox.  Skinner needs to watch a couple games from the pressbox.  Rask needs another break.  Ryan needs to come to Charlotte.  Darling needs to be sent to Estero.  We could all probably name a few more players who need a wake-up call.  I just wonder if Francis is the one keeping it from happening instead of Peters.

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In my opinion, When someone's department at work is constantly having problems, then a change has to be made.  Somebody is getting canned.  The hard part is finding someone to replace them that will do better.  I have no idea if a coaching change would make us a top 8 team or if we are flirting with the playoffs because Peter's is such a good coach.  Seems RF and now Dundon think we are competing because of how good Peter's is, which means they realize our talent is low.  I'll leave it up to them.  I will say, I don't want to see a change unless it's a proven NHL coach with a winning record.  No more experiments with cast off players, young guys who might be good one day and no more first time coaches after this.  

 

It's hard for me to not put this season on Darling.  I'm sorry but he was brought here to be our new number one and solve our goaltending problems. 9-13-6 is horrible. I know some of those games are on our D and some are on our O but for the most part it's his job to steal those low scoring games and save the D when they are having a bad night.  He has not done that but maybe 2-3 times this season.

 

Man and the WTH happened to Skinner?  He finished so strong last year and started so strong this season and now he's beyond a slump.  Is it coach?  Is it him? I don't know man.  So sick of watching our most talented guys suddenly fall off the face of the earth for 1-2 months at a time.

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56 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

I called BS on the motivation portion.  How BP calls for accountability and yet never holds anyone accountable for anything IE Faulk, Skinner, ETC.

Real life isn't a Zig Ziglar book. 

 

Real life is owners who don't spend enough to enable their managers to enact their plans as quickly as they'd hoped to. That's true whether we're talking sports or "regular" businesses. 

 

Successful businesses have owners who understand the importance of reinvesting in their businesses and who consistently do so, allowing them to be competitive (and hopefully dominant) in their industries. In hockey, that means spending to or near the same cap everybody else does, not creating one of your own and still expecting to be competitive. Doing that, you are pretty much telling anyone paying attention - including your players - that you care to a lesser extent than all the other owners in the league. Despite that, the Canes are competitive most of the time. And that's why many are concluding that BP is getting all he can - and arguably more than he should be - from what he's been stuck with in his first 3-1/2 seasons.

 

Here is my complete guess as to what has happened in the four years since RF took over, but it sure lines up with what has played out during that time:

 

1. JR leaves and PK offers RF the job on a three-year deal.

2. RF asks what he'll have to work with.

3. PK says he's staying with a self-imposed cap until he can sell the team, but believes that will happen within two years. So RF takes the three-year deal, then goes out and gets the best coach available, one who clearly agrees with him about player accountability.

4. In offering BP the job, RF shares that the org should be flush and able to begin spending like the real teams do within two years, and like PK did RF, RF offers BP a three-year deal, which he takes. In their first presser, knowing what they do, both men heavily emphasize that turning things around is going to take time.

5. The sale doesn't happen within PK's anticipated time frame. Everything's on hold.

6. Knowing he's about to be extended himself due to the delay in selling the team, RF extends BP for two years just before his vacation, on July 27, 2016. Sure enough, RF's extension is announced when he gets back from vacation. PK is basically assuring both men that their jobs are safe until he can close a sale that gets them ownership with the pockets deep enough to attract top talent.

7. In the meantime, BP tries everything, just as others have.

8. Before the current season, and knowing a deal to sell the team is close, RF and BP consult heavily on the choice of Captains/Alternate, (1) foreseeing that they will be dealing at least one of them once the ownership dam breaks, and (2) hopeful that, by awarding letters to those they do, all will be MOTIVATED to play to their potential.

9. Only one does.

10. Skinner feels snubbed, since a month before the season begins it seemed the job was his. Nonetheless, he comes out on fire, but eventually drops off. Meanwhile Faulk is pretty bad all year, but in the meantime, the sale is finalized--and both RF and PK, being smart managers, realize that benching either one of them would only diminish their market values, just as stripping their letters would--at the exact moment that RF finally has the money to begin enacting the plans that have been on hold for nearly two years longer than he expected when he and BP were hired.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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25 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

 

10. Skinner feels snubbed, since a month before the season begins it seemed the job was his. Nonetheless, he comes out on fire, but eventually drops off. 

 

Then gets snubbed and drops down in lines and isn't utilized on the proper lines. Begins to feel that he has to do it all himself on the lines he is paired with. He belongs with play makes that can utilize his talents. Gets further snubbed early by not being utilized in OT or shoot outs and the drop off goes into a dark void.

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