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bluedevil58

The Bill Peters Watch

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25 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Then gets snubbed and drops down in lines and isn't utilized on the proper lines. Begins to feel that he has to do it all himself on the lines he is paired with. He belongs with play makes that can utilize his talents. Gets further snubbed early by not being utilized in OT or shoot outs and the drop off goes into a dark void.

I wouldn’t play him in OT. You can’t count on him to play defense with any effort.  Basically if Skinner doesn’t make his shot then its a 3 on 2 the other way.  Maybe a 2 on 1 if Skinner’s partner is deep as well. 

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1 hour ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

I think motivation and accountability are two different things.  As pointed out, these guys are being paid millions to play the game they love and winning should be its own motivation - Peters shouldn't have to be a cheerleader to get the guys going.

 

He absolutely should be holding them accountable though.  I wonder if he isn't or if he can't.  Wasn't it JR who made Laviolette rush his injured vets back in and pull Bayda/Aucion/etc that one season, 

I was going to post this same thought yesterday but was to lazy to look up the data. The season you are referring to was one of my favorite memories of this team. Our team was decimated with injuries and we had to bring up multiple players(3-4) from our affiliated team in the minors, the Albany River Rats. One of my favorite sweaters by the way as I went out and bought one on Ebay. The Rats although not the most talented group kept us in the race and we started racking up wins. They didn't have big salaries but had the desire to win/motivation and they gave it their all every shift. It was an amazing atmosphere and River Rat Jersey's were seen throughout the arena.A great homage to their efforts. They got us to the edge of the playoffs and then were wrongly pulled in favor of putting our injured core back on the ice. Major fail and the fans were irate that we didn't keep the rats who got us to the point of the playoffs. So yes hold our players accountable and put them on waivers (PDG,Jooris,Kruger) and bring up Wallmark/Foeggle/Zykov. Faulk should absolutely see the pine as well. As much as I like Nordstrom's physicality this year 4pts and -9 in 47 games isn't getting it done.I'm not saying the Ute's have to remain here as they still need development but it could give us a shot in the arm and their desire may be contagious.  It will also signal to the team that players are being held accountable. 

Homage to the Rats:

Move to Charlotte[edit]

In late January, 2010, word began to leak out of Raleigh, NC that the franchise was about to be sold and moved to Charlotte, North Carolina. On February 10, it became official as the Albany River Rats website announced that the sale of the franchise had been completed, and that the team would be moving to Charlotte at the conclusion of the 2009-10 AHL Season. "Capital District Sports, Inc. announced today that its subsidiary, the Albany River Rats, has sold its American Hockey League franchise to MAK Hockey, LLC located in Charlotte, North Carolina. The sale will not affect the remainder of the 2009-10 season, with regular season games concluding on April 10, 2010 followed by the 2010 Calder Cup Playoffs." [8]

The relocated team, to be known as the Charlotte Checkers, would remain the top affiliate of the Carolina Hurricanes and replace that city's ECHL franchise of the same name.

 

Image result for albany river rats

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On Skinner not playing in one OT of one game where he wasn't playing defense, if that was enough to send him into a tailspin then he's a snowflake.

 

That said, I don't think it's one thing. As Peters said, "Winning is painful." So is scoring goals and keeping his plus minus up for Skinner. On the offensive side he needs to get that one or two feet closer to the net where the pain is and the goals are. On the defensive side he needs to engage on the boards instead of just poking his stick in, and he needs to skate hard back to the zone. For reasons only he knows, he's stopped doing all of that painful stuff. (He also did that stuff after his concussions, which one can fully understand). I doubt that it's just one thing. But in this thread about Peters, the most glaring thing that one could lay on him IMO, is Skinner's collapse (it is not typically the head coach's job to figure out the goalies).

 

TBH, no coach has really consistently figured out what to do with Skinner over long stretches. He is such an atypical player. Mostly coaches have tried to get him away from the top pair D men by putting him on a lower line. Peters likes him with Ryan, but Ryan, while a great story and a good hockey player, is a marginal NHL center, and he's cooled off over the last 7 games or so. I don't know what is going on with Skinner, but Peters and he need to figure it out fast.

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19 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

I wouldn’t play him in OT. You can’t count on him to play defense with any effort.  Basically if Skinner doesn’t make his shot then its a 3 on 2 the other way.  Maybe a 2 on 1 if Skinner’s partner is deep as well. 

No I wouldn't now either. His D has gone further south over the season. When he was hot early he was playing descent D. As his lines kept getting juggled you see how he has gone from play making hockey to trying to do it all himself driving in the zone solo and getting stripped of the puck or going 1 on 2 and not getting off a shot. This started the slide in the D and also his slide in offense. Not being used properly has got to hurt his psyche.

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4 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

I was going to post this same thought yesterday but was to lazy to look up the data. The season you are referring to was one of my favorite memories of this team. Our team was decimated with injuries and we had to bring up multiple players(3-4) from our affiliated team in the minors, the Albany River Rats.

 

If I'm not mistaken, they put two of the River Rats on a line with Scott Walker, and we took to calling it several things but I liked Walker and the Rats. They not only brought energy, but they actually scored points too.

 

I didn't repost your whole post, but your point about our 4th line is one I've been meaning to make, and then heard Trip actually call them out last game. I get that the 4th line is there to grind and hit and posses and kill penalties, yada  yada yada. But in today's NHL (and for winning teams in the past too) the 4th line has to at least score some. Sometimes if I've DVR'd a game and don't really have time to watch the whole thing, I'll fast forward when I see our 4th line roll out there since there is close to zero chance they will score.

 

I get that Nordstrom does the little things and is a smart hockey player. But the man has not put up a single point. Not even a greasy assist, nothing in 29 straight games. PDG has one point and zero goals in all of his 19 games so far. Marcus Kruger has 1 goal in 43 games. I am pretty tired of having a 4th line that has almost zero chance of scoring, ever.

 

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I'm so enamored with this idea, and it combines Slaps recall of Walker and Rats, and something I've been thinking for a while now.

 

The word is that you don't want to bring guys up and not put them in a position to play to their strengths. But maybe, like with some other things, the conventional wisdom is just wrong. If you can bring up an entire line of AHL guys who can score, all on cheap salaries, the only thing that would make them the 4th line and in that "role" would be how the coach plays them. In tournaments where all the players are really good, the 4th line often gets a pretty good chunk of minutes. "But you are taking ice time from other, established lines". EXACTLY. Coaches often say that their only real power is ice time, so this seems the perfect solution. Take the ice time from the guys not doing their jobs.

 

Bring up an entire line of Checkers. If you have to waive guys and send them down, or trade them, then fine. If you have to bench a guy, then fine. Let say Foegle, Wallmark, and Zykov play as a line. If they do well, and create chances, give them more ice time at the expense of whoever is "too comfortable". Don't have to put them in the press box, just less ice time, even less PP time if it's bad enough.

 

I don't know, it might create some animosity, but it would be a shake up.

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I have avoided this topic mostly because I needed time to think it through. Most of the comments, at least the ones on topic seem to be thoughtful and avoid the headhunting mentality that often surfaces when things go wrong.

 

Thinking back the three and a half seasons when BP began I think he has for the most part met expectations. He took over when the organization and team were in disarray. At a time of a full on rebuild. Since then he has installed a system, brought along very young players and improved the team enough to instill hope. That is until this season when expectations were raised. I know, "it ain't over till it's over" but at the moment the team seems stalled. Peters may still right the ship. It doesn't appear to me he has lost the locker room or that his system is flawed.

 

Here is the rub for me. Peters was hired as an untested head coach at the NHL level. He seems great as an instructional coach even maybe a tough father figure but can he take this young but maturing team to the next level. If the answer is I don't know or no then it is time for a change.

 

In this league a coaches bench time like a players ice time is based on performance.

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21 minutes ago, remkin said:

I'm so enamored with this idea, and it combines Slaps recall of Walker and Rats, and something I've been thinking for a while now.

 

The word is that you don't want to bring guys up and not put them in a position to play to their strengths. But maybe, like with some other things, the conventional wisdom is just wrong. If you can bring up an entire line of AHL guys who can score, all on cheap salaries, the only thing that would make them the 4th line and in that "role" would be how the coach plays them. In tournaments where all the players are really good, the 4th line often gets a pretty good chunk of minutes. "But you are taking ice time from other, established lines". EXACTLY. Coaches often say that their only real power is ice time, so this seems the perfect solution. Take the ice time from the guys not doing their jobs.

 

Bring up an entire line of Checkers. If you have to waive guys and send them down, or trade them, then fine. If you have to bench a guy, then fine. Let say Foegle, Wallmark, and Zykov play as a line. If they do well, and create chances, give them more ice time at the expense of whoever is "too comfortable". Don't have to put them in the press box, just less ice time, even less PP time if it's bad enough.

 

I don't know, it might create some animosity, but it would be a shake up.

Since we aren't getting any trades going it makes sense to me short term and we aren't spending money but actually saving money.More to use in the off season. I'm convinced that Foegle Wallmark and Zykov can produce more than PDG Nordy Jooris and Kruger. Maybe not, but prove it to me! I'd be more than happy to say I was crazy.

Edited by slapshot02

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6 minutes ago, OBXer said:

He seems great as an instructional coach even maybe a tough father figure but can he take this young but maturing team to the next level. If the answer is I don't know or no then it is time for a change.

 

In this league a coaches bench time like a players ice time is based on performance.

I don't think he can take this existing team to the next level nor do I think a more seasoned coach could.. If we made a splash in the past off season with more fire power and he couldn't raise the bar then I would say it's time to go. I have mostly defended him to this point. He's done a few things I haven't liked but he wasn't responsible for Darling's folly or lack of trades or UFA signings. We have to go big in this next off season or TD's words are null and void. Let's see what is done with TD at the helm and give BP one more year or at least a half a year. 

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17 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

No benching of Faulk, Skinner, Jordan, etc.

Question, not to BD58 only: we are calling for benching players, but have anybody ever heard that other coaches in other teams have their best/first liner/star/captain player(s) actually benched? I can't recall reading Crosby, Karlsson (Ottawa), Pacioretti were given a break. Is this form of punishment really and often applicable throughout NHL?

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10 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

He's done a few things I haven't liked but he wasn't responsible for Darling's folly or lack of trades or UFA signings.  

Bingo.

 

If Darling had a .500 winning percentage, we're still in a wild card slot. 

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1 hour ago, gocanes0506 said:

Gets further snubbed early by not being utilized in OT or shoot outs and the drop off goes into a dark void.

 

1 hour ago, gocanes0506 said:

I wouldn’t play him in OT. You can’t count on him to play defense with any effort.  Basically if Skinner doesn’t make his shot then its a 3 on 2 the other way.  Maybe a 2 on 1 if Skinner’s partner is deep as well. 

 

I can't remember who we played against when Peters caught quite a bit of flak for "benching" Skinner late in the 3rd period, the entire OT and then didn't use him in the SO and we ended up losing the game. Even though he was our most consistent and leading scorer at time, Skinny did not have a good game and has been (and still is) way too selfish more often than not and coughing up the puck trying to go through 2 or 3 guys all the time. It was obvious that Peters tried to make a statement yet he still gets knocked for it when he does.

 

I totally agree with gocanes. Skinny is a liability when he has the puck too long and tries to plow his way through defenders. That would be even more pronounced and dangerous in a shootout situation. He is a scorer and let's be honest, fancy puck handling is not really his forte. Same thing goes for using him in shootouts. The guy is 3 for 19 in shootouts for crying out loud. He has not scored on a penalty shot in his two attempts this season and seemingly in forever, so why would any coach include him in his top-five shooter list for a SO?       

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2 hours ago, slapshot02 said:

Then gets snubbed and drops down in lines and isn't utilized on the proper lines. Begins to feel that he has to do it all himself on the lines he is paired with. He belongs with play makes that can utilize his talents. Gets further snubbed early by not being utilized in OT or shoot outs and the drop off goes into a dark void.

 

 

That's a good point as well - Skinner definitely hasn't been given the EStaal treatment where he pretty much got to pick his linemates and even had players brought here just to play with him.  Being joined at the hip to Ryan isn't actually setting him up for fat stacks.  But then when he does get the rare opportunity to work with real linemates, he needs to take better advantage of it.

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7 hours ago, remkin said:

On Skinner not playing in one OT of one game where he wasn't playing defense, if that was enough to send him into a tailspin then he's a snowflake.

 

 

If that was the case then yes he would  be a snowflake or just a flake. Rough scan shows he hasn't been used in at least three OT and hasn't been used in the shoot out at all. His record and history is poor in the shoot out, but he hasn't been tried once this year. I'll still take him over Faulk in a shoot out. At age 25 yes he may still have some mental growing ahead of him.

Edited by slapshot02
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I think it has to be more than just the benching in that one OT. Maybe multiple ones, maybe something else, but he is not on his game and we need all of his scoring prowess and at least some defensive effort to have a shot. That coast back on the second 2 on 1 goal was pretty ugly.

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6 hours ago, Whaler1 said:

 

Same thing goes for using him in shootouts. The guy is 3 for 19 in shootouts for crying out loud. He has not scored on a penalty shot in his two attempts this season and seemingly in forever, so why would any coach include him in his top-five shooter list for a SO?       

I must be looking at different stats than you Whaler1. I show Skinner 6-35 and 17.1% in shoot outs in his career and not being used at all this year in S/O.

This year Aho 1-5, Williams 0-2, Slavin 1-4, Mc Ginn 2-3, Ryan 0-1, TT 1-2 Faulk 0-1, PDG 1-1.  Skinner 0-0. 

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23 minutes ago, remkin said:

I think it has to be more than just the benching in that one OT. Maybe multiple ones, maybe something else, but he is not on his game and we need all of his scoring prowess and at least some defensive effort to have a shot. That coast back on the second 2 on 1 goal was pretty ugly.

Lately he's showed signs of coming around, IMO. He had three whacks on the same play in the blue paint in Pittsburgh but couldn't find a gap, and some beautiful playmaking below the goal line to set up Slavin's top shelf glove-side cheese versus VGK.

 

Yeah, he's struggled more than any of us would like, and if I have one knock on BP it's his inability to let go of spreading talent across the lines and D pairings when doing so would probably be smarter. Skinner should be on Rask or Lindy's wing with StempBut I think his long game is that whomever is still here when the deadwood is gone is able to adapt quickly, so the new talent can be placed where its needed and the lines left alone on all but really bad nights. 

 

All of that being said, totally excluding Skinner from the shootout ensures only one thing: Our best sniper will have no chance to improve his shootout success rate. And let's not forget that his first- ever goal for the Canes came via the skills competition vs. the Wild in Helsinki.

 

 

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20 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

So do it. 

 

 

Every major statistical category that hasn’t improved since his tenure here despite having a near completely different team since his arrival.  I can’t buy that our team not progressing in advance stats nor standings has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the coach when we’ve replaced all but 6 players since his arrival.  I’m not saying it’s all on him.  RF had a chance to beef up the coaching staff this past offseason.  I love Rod, and Smith has had some positive impact, but having no meaningful coaching experience to back up a 1st time NHL coach wasn’t the best of ideas.  

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4 minutes ago, PenaltyKiller17 said:

 

Every major statistical category that hasn’t improved since his tenure here despite having a near completely different team since his arrival.  I can’t buy that our team not progressing in advance stats nor standings has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the coach when we’ve replaced all but 6 players since his arrival.  I’m not saying it’s all on him.  RF had a chance to beef up the coaching staff this past offseason.  I love Rod, and Smith has had some positive impact, but having no meaningful coaching experience to back up a 1st time NHL coach wasn’t the best of ideas.  

You don't have to buy it. PK already did, and TD says he's happy with BP. 

 

I personally am looking forward to improvement in stats too. And the minute the talent and will to win are there, it'll happen.

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On 1/23/2018 at 10:51 PM, LakeLivin said:

Nah, you're so consistently negative that it's not worth my effort to point out any other perspectives.  But I understand, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.  So if you feel like you have to jump, have a nice trip, and I'm sure we'll see you back here after the Canes turn it around. :howdy:

 

I'm going with Lake on this one.

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