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Off-Season 2018

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So Francis made $39.5 million over his career (less taxes, agent fees, etc.). By all accounts, Dundon is worth billions. Come on. He should have made a clean break and paid out Ronnie’s contract. Then he stared down Peters and waited for him to resign to save $1.6 million. What message are we sending to GM and coach candidates, and for that matter, free agents about how they will be treated here?

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9 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

How much Francis made as a player is irrelevant. When you fire a guy, you pay him for the duration of his contract. This dance since March 7th looks like an effort to humiliate the guy into quitting. Not the classy thing to do. There were a lot of good reasons for Dundon to fire Francis, starting with simply wanting his own guy to run the team. But I can’t help but wonder if the messy way it was handled, and with a Hall of Famer who is popular around the league, may be contributing to the difficulty in finding a replacement.

 

Somebody explain to me how this was messy?  Dundon wanted to make a change as was his right.  For whatever reason, he and RF didn't see eye to eye.  After the trade deadline, what was there really that the GM needed to do?  When that came and went, and obviously Dundon had decided to move on, he moved RF out and into the broom closet to finish out the terms of his contract (that was not going to be renewed).  He didn't fire him immediately.  He was allowed to save face.  I don't know what happened from that time until now, but with the hiring of another suit, they needed to do something.

 

I'm sorry somebody's feelings may have gotten hurt, but that's business.  This team hasn't made the playoffs for 9 years, and RF has been in the front office in some capacity for most of that time.  Move on.

 

edit:  As for staring down Peters over a "mere" 1.6M, why pay a guy that you know is going to quit when there was no squeeze on hiring a head coach?

Edited by super_dave_1
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Hard to feel sorry for millionaire pro athletes who become suits post career. No pro sports job is forever. If he didn’t want to get booted he should have resigned when he got ‘promoted’. Maybe TD will invite him back to do ceremonial season opener puck drop. 

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Agree to disagree. The classy thing to do, especially with a legendary player who came to this team when it was trying to get established in this market, would have been to either fire him and make a clean break, or better yet, pay him and let him resign. My point as much as anything is that the way TD has handled Francis and Peters sends a message to other candidates that may keep them away from here. Maybe Peters brought his situation on himself, because it looks like he knew he was going to Calgary, and waited until the last minute to opt out of his contract trying to get paid here before signing there. But Francis was demoted and left in limbo for 2 months when it was obvious he was not part of the future here. Again, part of the problem is the way people in this market, including me, view Francis due to his on ice contributions to the team. Another reason to think twice before making Rod head coach.

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Wow, I'm getting warm and fuzzy feelings. One guy associated with the Thrashers. One guy associated with the Canadians and the Thrashers. One guy who hung the DiPietro contract on the Islanders. Things are really looking ........what's that word I'm looking for.............

Edited by winger52
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4 hours ago, super_dave_1 said:

And if Francis had been unceremoniously fired in the middle of the season, people would have complained about that.

Damn will be glad when y'all get past Francis. He was a man not a God

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It was a forgone conclusion that TD would bring in his own management team once he bought the team. 

 

With the sale dragging on almost 2/3 of the season before it closed, there was not much TD could change at that point.  

 

Once it became apparent that the Canes were out of the playoff race, it was time for action.

 

It it would’ve been more interesting had the Canes made the playoffs.  It would’ve been much harder publicly to get rid of the coach and GM. Although I feel he still probably would’ve still replaced them.

 

You spend 300 million dollars, I think he is well within his rights to restructure the management team anyway he sees fit.  

 

Besides, who knows if Francis even wanted to stay on as GM.  He was PKs guy.  

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5 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

How much Francis made as a player is irrelevant. When you fire a guy, you pay him for the duration of his contract. This dance since March 7th looks like an effort to humiliate the guy into quitting. Not the classy thing to do. There were a lot of good reasons for Dundon to fire Francis, starting with simply wanting his own guy to run the team. But I can’t help but wonder if the messy way it was handled, and with a Hall of Famer who is popular around the league, may be contributing to the difficulty in finding a replacement.

I tried to ignore this, but just can't. As no-one on here has knowledge of the behind the scene activity, how can we label this "not a classy thing to do", and further I just don't buy that this was a calculated decision to "humiliate him into quitting". We'll never know if Francis contributed to the way this played, but I believe that Dundon attempted to allow Francis an honorable exit that went sour.

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6 hours ago, slapshot02 said:

He hogged the puck due to not having anyone to pass to. Who was available? PDG/Ryan/Stemps.

Actually the 2 ish games that PDG Lindholm and Skinner played together both PDG and Skinner played very well. Good thing there was like 6 games left and Peters pulled the line apart before we could all see how big of a mistake it was burying PDG and Skinner on lines with AHL level guys.

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8 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

I tried to ignore this, but just can't. As no-one on here has knowledge of the behind the scene activity, how can we label this "not a classy thing to do", and further I just don't buy that this was a calculated decision to "humiliate him into quitting". We'll never know if Francis contributed to the way this played, but I believe that Dundon attempted to allow Francis an honorable exit that went sour.

Thank you KJUN.

 

We are all acting like we're at the negotiating table, sitting with an HR representative, Tom and Ronny.  The fact of the matter is we have no idea of the fine terms of the contract.  We have no idea of payouts, buyouts, arbitration.  We have no idea what happened in that office.

 

Yet we are free to comment on it based on the final external result.  And that's fine.  But ultimately, we just don't know anything but the tip of the iceberg.

Edited by wxray1
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6 hours ago, wxray1 said:

Thank you KJUN.

 

We are all acting like we're at the negotiating table, sitting with an HR representative, Tom and Ronny.  The fact of the matter is we have no idea of the fine terms of the contract.  We have no idea of payouts, buyouts, arbitration.  We have no idea what happened in that office.

 

Yet we are free to comment on it based on the final external result.  And that's fine.  But ultimately, we just don't know anything but the tip of the iceberg.

AMEN!!!

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Kjun, it’s taken me a little while to respond, but here it is. I’m not saying cry for Ron Francis, because I think he came to this job in his big boy pants, and he will be just fine. If he wants another job in hockey, I’m pretty sure he will find it (and not just with JR). If not, he can take his fat stacks and retire. But I think some of Dundon’s public statements, and the perception of how he handled the “reassignment” and termination of Francis may be affecting our ability to hire a new GM. I wanted Don Waddell gone from the Hurricanes the day PK hired him. Maybe I misjudged him. But Atlanta’s lack of success (not to mention relocation) says maybe not. And now we’ve added a 69 year old former colleague of Waddell’s in Atlanta, whose most recent gig was AGM of the #27 team in the league. So there is some evidence that SOMETHING about our owner or the GM job has failed to attract the best and brightest. After Dundon’s first press conference when he bought the team, I thought he was a breath of fresh air and was just excited to be out from under PK’s cheapskate ownership. I don’t think we can even begin to judge his stewardship of the team until we have a GM, a HC, and see what comes in the offseason. As for Francis, maybe he peed in the owner’s cornflakes and he got what he deserved. But I still think from a PR standpoint within the league, the fan base, and with potential hires, Ron’s termination was handled poorly.

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2 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

Kjun, it’s taken me a little while to respond, but here it is. I’m not saying cry for Ron Francis, because I think he came to this job in his big boy pants, and he will be just fine. If he wants another job in hockey, I’m pretty sure he will find it (and not just with JR). If not, he can take his fat stacks and retire. But I think some of Dundon’s public statements, and the perception of how he handled the “reassignment” and termination of Francis may be affecting our ability to hire a new GM. I wanted Don Waddell gone from the Hurricanes the day PK hired him. Maybe I misjudged him. But Atlanta’s lack of success (not to mention relocation) says maybe not. And now we’ve added a 69 year old former colleague of Waddell’s in Atlanta, whose most recent gig was AGM of the #27 team in the league. So there is some evidence that SOMETHING about our owner or the GM job has failed to attract the best and brightest. After Dundon’s first press conference when he bought the team, I thought he was a breath of fresh air and was just excited to be out from under PK’s cheapskate ownership. I don’t think we can even begin to judge his stewardship of the team until we have a GM, a HC, and see what comes in the offseason. As for Francis, maybe he peed in the owner’s cornflakes and he got what he deserved. But I still think from a PR standpoint within the league, the fan base, and with potential hires, Ron’s termination was handled poorly.

Okay, bluedevilcane, for what its worth, here's my take. I would suppose that you, as well as most if not all of us form our opinions from the media? Reports of this and reports of that are to some degree BIASED, some more than others. I'll admit that I am unnerved at this point in the early phases of this sweeping new approach our new owner is taking as there are disquieting elements in it, for instance the generally circulated slander perhaps that Dundon is trying to "lowball" his GM hire. Then Francis appears unceremoniously separated from the team, a euphemism for "fired". Then we appear to have 2 VPs of something, Waddell who has the stigma(which I truly believe is undeserved) of being in the Thrasher organization when it was cashed in is lurking about, and finally the "committee" structure that appears to be the guiding light for administration of this team.

 

Thus, at this point, as Caniacs, we seem to have 2 choices. We can throw our hands up, accept all the rantings promulgated by what I consider for want of a better word, The Old Guard, who detests interlopers upsetting the way things have always been(i.e. the Good Old Days), particularly "Rednecks from Mayberry" who surely cannot understand their national sport, with their NASCAR mentality. Or we can buckle up, realize that much of what is going on is evolution of the sport for its betterment and challenge the media's narrow minded vision of this team.

 

Now, I admit its difficult, particularly at the butt end of 9 years of famine for playoff hockey, and I'm right there with most at fearing where this will play out. But when I read earlier how some of the fans viewed the hit in the Caps/Pens game by Wilson on that young player who wound up with a broken jaw and concussion, as a "hockey play", I see the barbaric ignorance that must be changed, particularly when 1 considers that this play could result in this guy effectively becoming a vegetable at 40 yrs of age. So yeah, there are elements about the game that need changing, and if Dundon is the pioneer that leads us out of a barbaric "win at all costs" mentality, and makes administrative guidance of the team more effective, than I intend to support this new regime. Ron's termination, and the PR problem it APPEARS to have created, I suggest, MAY JUST BE BIAS FROM THE MEDIA., and not what played out. Saying that, I recognize that perception is everything, thus if the general public perceives it as bad PR, that is, damn the accuracy of that perception.

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I agree there is definitely a media bias. They don’t seem to be able to let go of our moving from Hartford. I’m just a die hard fan impatiently waiting on TD to make good hires. 

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I really think angst is well placed. This does not mean it won't all work out. But Dundon has managed so far only to surround himself with very old guard. But not necessarily in a good way. He likes Don Waddell, I like Waddell personally, but I'm not sure he's not a bit of a yes man. And now we have an super old guard 69 yo who in his interview of why he came here was two words: Don Waddell. He doesn't even know what his role is. 

 

Now this could all work fine. These two have a lot of contacts and the new (very old) guy has a long history in scouting. But angst is in order until the main hires happen: GM and coach. The new VP of whatever he is, when he was in charge of drafting loved trading down from very high picks. One year he traded a top pick (#4 I think) and traded his way entirely out of the first round. He's traded down 3-4 times in the first round. I get that he's not the GM, but that makes me nervous. We should not trade down. If we do it should not be more than one spot IMO, and really only then if the deal is just overwhelming.

 

Anyway, I'm hoping that Dundon is trying to build a committee that has some long timers on it so that he can go younger w/ the GM. But if we hire a GM in Waddell's image, I'll be very angst-ridden. 

 

At the bottom of it, I am still on the high of getting the #2 pick, and waiting to see who gets the key slots, but some angst is not unreasonable IMO.

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Angst?

 

The team hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years.  There is a new owner, and he's making changes.  How about seeing how it plays out before getting all angsty?

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Its funny I was going defend "angst" until I looked up the definition, and I guess it has a bit stronger connotation than I had always thought it meant. I sort of thought of its as a fidgety unease. I guess it means more dread, and I agree with not going that far.

 

But some uneasy feeling is in order, and doesn't require waiting. Each move can be looked at. Of course there is always the caveat that there is likely a bigger plan. But each move is worthy of it's own discussion. Even after we name a coach and GM we probably won't know how it all plays out for years. OK if some want to wait years to comment on it, but until then we can always wait a bit longer to really see how it plays out.

 

We were all pretty happy with Francis and Peters for a long long time, until we weren't. 

 

I put in my post that I actually still have confidence that it will all work out. But up to now there have been things worth considering possibly even criticizing and I think that's reasonable.

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1 hour ago, super_dave_1 said:

Angst?

 

The team hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years.  There is a new owner, and he's making changes.  How about seeing how it plays out before getting all angsty?

I am seriously hopeful that everything will come together and the team will flourish and nothing has happened that makes me think we are doomed. But I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little anxious, worried, and uneasy about how things have not been going how anyone expected. That generally fits my definition of angst, just maybe differing a little on severity.

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I have neither anxiousness nor angst.

 

We're dealing with an owner who wants to change the way sports management is done. Innovators always make waves. I'm just diggin' the show, because one thing's for sure: this org can't get any worse than it has been, for much too long.

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Agree, but...if this experimental mgmt approach fails to pan out and the product and results on the ice reflect that failure before Turkey Day, then holy crap the howling will be brutal and the rink will have more workers than fans for games. TD hasn’t had to live the S Show of failed expectations of the past 9 years. For him this is all brand new and starting fresh. For everyone else not so much. 

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