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On Tavares, obviously a huge long shot, but I would pay him whatever it took if he had any interest. This costs us nothing in players. Every team needs a true superstar and every cup team needs a top 1C ideally and some even have two. He instantly makes everything not in goal good. Instantly.

 

Essentially he would replace the productivity of Victor Rask netting 23 more goals and 30 more assits. If each assist leads to say .6 goals, then that is over 40 more goals. In one move. Based on last year's numbers that pushes this current team up to #7 in the NHL in scoring. 

 

Of course it also pushes everyone else down to easier spots in the lineup. AND this is a young team with talent coming up. Further, and I know we can argue this, Lindholm and Skinner had down years last year. I hope that this is part of the pitch should JT even glance in our direction. And what if he can unlock Skinner?

 

With him on board we just need to fix goalie. And here we can empty the barrel. Target the best guy possible and trade Faulk plus for him.

 

If this team had JT and an average #1 goalie we would not just be a playoff team, we'd be a cup contender. And that's before Necas rolls into town.

 

And don't tell me if the Canes shocked the hockey world and pulled this off that it wouldn't sell tons of tickets immediately.

 

 

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Thing about JT is there are better teams in us that can also afford him in SJ and St Louis.  Either of those teams would be immediate title contenders.  We’d be a playoff team with him here, but I wouldn’t put us at the very top of the pile. 

 

I think ROR makes the most sense.  We have assets to acquire him, he’s likely available, and he fits TD’s theme.

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39 minutes ago, remkin said:

 

 

If this team had JT and an average #1 goalie we would not just be a playoff team, we'd be a cup contender. And that's before Necas rolls into town.

 

 

 

AHHHH, No.  Way to many soft players that still accept  loosing and won't commit to the team. If we got JT and an average goalie we would still need at least 3 other changes to get us into any deep playoff push.

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2 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

AHHHH, No.  Way to many soft players that still accept  loosing and won't commit to the team. If we got JT and an average goalie we would still need at least 3 other changes to get us into any deep playoff push.

Sure, make a couple of other switches to switch out the soft players. But some of that softness came after serial softness in goal, game after game after game.

 

The productivity would be there for wins. Would guys step up if things were better? Maybe. Skinner for example. He is one of my whipping boys for your point. But the year before he was right there pushing for wins, skating to back check, getting closer to the net, and being discussed as Captain material. This year was not good, and maybe he needs to be moved, but fix goalie and add Tavares, we probably see a different Skinner.

 

You could be right, but we'll never really know for sure what this team would have done in the playoffs with an elite 1C and a solid goalie.

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17 hours ago, remkin said:

Sure, make a couple of other switches to switch out the soft players. But some of that softness came after serial softness in goal, game after game after game.

 

The productivity would be there for wins. Would guys step up if things were better? Maybe. Skinner for example. He is one of my whipping boys for your point. But the year before he was right there pushing for wins, skating to back check, getting closer to the net, and being discussed as Captain material. This year was not good, and maybe he needs to be moved, but fix goalie and add Tavares, we probably see a different Skinner.

 

You could be right, but we'll never really know for sure what this team would have done in the playoffs with an elite 1C and a solid goalie.

I was down on Skinners play at times this year however I think he proved that on a line with help he is much better. I cant even begin to count how many times I heard Forsland say either "Skinner in all alone" or my favorite "Skinner with no friends to pass to" this season. One of my biggest strikes against Peters staying is I think he really mismanaged the lines this year, between the constant blender and his handling of Skinner and PDG I think he alone cost the team 3 or 4 wins if not more. 

 

All that being said I agree with most that there are only 4 or 5 untouchables on this team and neither Skinner or PDG are on that list but I wouldnt try to move them and would need to be blown away by the return to do so.

Edited by Derailed75
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20 hours ago, Derailed75 said:

One of my biggest strikes against Peters staying is I think he really mismanaged the lines this year, between the constant blender and his handling of Skinner and PDG I think he alone cost the team 3 or 4 wins if not more. 

Right or wrong, I've come to believe that Skinner became the battlefield in a proxy fight between BP and RF this season. BP all but appointed Skinner the Captain last off season, and a week later the co-captaincy boneheadedness is announced. My guess is that BP felt he (Skinner) proved that he could be a top scorer the prior two seasons (both of which were career-best years when the seasons ended). 

 

But instead of getting two or three top-six wingers, RF gets one--Willy. And Jooris and Kruger. Really?

 

Then Stempniak, who played a big role in Skinner's success, goes down to start the season. For me, the only way BP's use of Skinner makes sense is if RF engineered the co-captaincy and didn't get the grade of player BP wanted in the off-season. Because once Stemp went down, BP had to pick his poison:

 

(1) Risk Jeff having an underwhelming year with Ryan and whomever else was available for the other wing. This allowed BP to see whether TT, Aho, Lindholm, and McGinn could, with Staal and JWilly as the grizzled vets/mentors, play top-six minutes (he already knew Jeff could); or

 

(2) Put Jeff in that group and McGinn on the third line. Which would have made that line much less threatening. Don't get me wrong, Ginner put together a nice little year. But Skinner, even with Ryan and Rask slumping much of the year, still managed to put up 49 points. So as much as I hated it while it was happening, hindsight helps make some sense of why BP slotted Skinner where he did. If Stemp had been healthy and those three (Skins-Ryan-Stemp) had picked up where they left off the prior year, Skinner probably keeps right on rolling. He sure started the season on fire.

 

So I think BP knew before the season even started that Kruger was never going to be more than a fourth-line C, and felt Jooris was a bargain-bin pickup (which he was). I think he was very unhappy Kruger's limitations forced him (BP) to slot Ryan too high, and coupled with Rask's issues and Stemp's absence, he played the hand he was dealt the best he could, while still distributing the scoring threat.

 

The only real move RF made to help up front last season was Willy, and - if I'm right and RF engineered the co-captaincy - BP essentially said, "Fine, you didn't get the pieces we needed, you took the captaincy out of my hands, and now that Stemp is down we're screwed. I'm at least gonna find out if the kids have what it takes to play against top-six talent, and let Jeff get his 50 points on the third. If you want more out of him, go out and get me another Stemp."  

 

And RF proceeded to sit on his thumbs.

Edited by top-shelf-1
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Top, you spent a lot of time thinking that through. IMO either way Peters screwed up big time. Going on 3 season without the playoffs he decided to try and see what the young guys could do and as much as he changed all the lines around never put Skinner on a good line until the final week of the season all to prove a point to RF? I hope to God you are wrong cause if true we need to get rid of Peters ASAP. To risk going 4 season with no playoffs to show up your boss is not acceptable. To me, and I have zero inside info it looks more like BP and Skinner were not seeing eye to eye on something. Maybe Skinners lack of defense? IDK. But I find it hard to believe RF is the one holding back Skinner, wasnt he a higher up when Skinner was drafted?  

 

In the end I guess we will never know what happened behind closed doors in Raleigh. But just as I said in the Peters watch thread both him and RF made big mistakes that let the team down this year and both are responsible for the team missing the playoffs this year. Just as much as better talent could have vaulted the team into the playoffs so could better coaching decisions  

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I just keep thinking that there has to be a trade for a nice forward out there, and I just keep thinking maybe JVR wouldn't mind joining his brother. And if both of those happened, problems solved outside of goalie. OK, may be like the famous joke, "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" But.....just salivating about that much offense really helps. Fold in the yutes coming up and it could be fun.

 

The number 5 player in the NHL for goals this year? Eric Staal. OK, OK, still too soon.....#12 John Tavares, but #14, with just one goal less that Tavares: JVR with 36 goals. And while this is a career high, JVR has basically put up 30 goals/season like clockwork for 4 straight years (or on that pace on year he was injured). Yes, his 18 assists stands out as pretty anemic, but that's a bit of an outlier for him, plus, we have playmakers, we need puck in the net guys.

 

Admittedly the move from Toronto to Raleigh is stark, and if he wants the spotlight it won't happen, but having TVR at least gives it some chance.

 

Then ROR, RNH, Hoffmann, or any other number of names raised and some not raised, a Faulk or Hanifin for forward move just has to be out there. Hanifin might bring back a near top tier guy of similar age. Sort of a Johansen for Jones type deal, though maybe not quite as high profile.

 

Add those two pieces? Say ROR and JVR? Holy turnaround Batman. Bring up yutes to fill the lines, and add that much offense? Just have to find a goalie.

 

Just seems that there has to be something out there.

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On 4/16/2018 at 2:48 PM, remkin said:

Sure, make a couple of other switches to switch out the soft players. But some of that softness came after serial softness in goal, game after game after game.

 

The productivity would be there for wins. Would guys step up if things were better? Maybe. Skinner for example. He is one of my whipping boys for your point. But the year before he was right there pushing for wins, skating to back check, getting closer to the net, and being discussed as Captain material. This year was not good, and maybe he needs to be moved, but fix goalie and add Tavares, we probably see a different Skinner.

 

You could be right, but we'll never really know for sure what this team would have done in the playoffs with an elite 1C and a solid goalie.

If we had a legit 1C and average goalie and made the playoffs I still think we would of crashed and burned in the first round. The team as is tends to be to complacent. I think the fan base has become to complacent as well when we evaluate individual success. Sure  TT, Lindholm, Skinner, Rask, have skills but they also take a lot of nights off and do not compete 100 %. When Willy states something stinks it has as much to do about compete level as anything else. TD wants 100% commitment level and many do not fit the bill.  The only ones that fit the commitment level are Willy,Staal,Aho,McGinn,Slavin,Pesce,Nordstrom,TVR,Dahlbeck,Ward. Everyone else should be considered trade able. Considering Mcginn, Nordstrom should be 3rd/4th line players respectively and Ward as a back up we have a huge void to fill to become a cup contender. I have been a huge advocate of Skinner and believe that if he had appropriate line mates he would succeed, but it does no allow me to forget that he took many nights off this season. I like TT/Lindholm but their compete level was not consistent either. Perhaps TT/Lindholm/Skinner could be used to get players with the killer instinct ingrained in their DNA. Must trade players are Faulk, PDG,Rask,Ryan,Stemps. Based on the huge void of talent and commitment on this team there is a huge void that TD can't fix in a year to be a cup contender. Two years from now? Maybe. TD has a lot of work to do to get to where he wants the team to be. I'm still hoping that he changes his mind regarding UFA's as that may help him accelerate the changes that are required.

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I'm always suspicious of the notion that guys don't have heart or don't really want to win. Not saying it's not true, just can be overblown. Again, if we had a decent goaltender this same team would be looking and playing differently. Trying to predict what they'd have done in the playoffs with a solid goaltender is impossible. We can project softness onto them, but until it happens we just don't know. Then add a solid 1C? This very team might rise to the challenge in the playoffs. I'd argue that the main problem IS that we keep losing. Guys get sick of it, but how many times can you break your stick or yell out an impassioned speech just to lose again? How many times in 9 years?

 

The last couple of years of his captaincy, the ultimate heart and soul player was unable to change anything.

 

HOWEVER, I'm not saying you're wrong. Cam Ward in one of his last interviews admitted that maybe the group of guys is too nice. Not enough snarl. Hearing it from Cam I cannot just dismiss it. There is probably something to it. But adding toughness without talent won't work. It's been tried. So if we go find a gritty, tough, can't stand losing guy, he better be able to play at a high level.

 

Take TT. He is 5'11' and looks like a European History graduate student. He is never going be a tough guy and more than Patrick Kane is. But he has increased his points from 35 to 42 to 64 and was plus 8 on a hugely minus team. He may not be in people's faces, but this is not a guy who is inconsistent, or not trying to frickin' win. Outside of goals he put up Aho's exact production line. But Aho is the golden boy and TT is soft? No. Trading TT would be stupid unless he brings back another young 65 point player, but even then, given how well he meshes with Aho, why do that. Makes zero sense.

 

OK then take Lindholm. He is physical. He is gritty. But he is MASSIVELY inconsistent. 27 games without a goal at the end of the year? Also this was a guy who was making plays at an elite level two years ago, just racking up assists. He should have broken out this year. At least 60 points. But he regresses back to 40. Does he hate to lose? He may be physical, but does he pick up the team and will it to victory? He has the ability. He was a big disappointment to me this year. I'd move him, but to what value?

 

Then Skinner. The guy just folded for much of this year. Like a wet noodle. Was it the coach? Maybe. But this was supposed to be Captain matterial. Can we ever imagine Rod Brindamour just coasting for 40 games?

 

Faulk? If Faulk is still here next year, that alone is reason to give my season tickets back.

 

Anyway, I DO think bringing in some more heart and soul guys could help. Cam said it, so it must help. But he also said losing breeds losing, and in some cases (probably Skinner) at some point just losing so much is the problem. So if we had a 1C and a goalie and won more, then we wouldn't be having this discussion unless they folded in the playoffs, which is nowhere near a forgone conclusion and unprovable until it happens.

 

Look at Vegas. They just won all year. But surely the playoffs would be different. Surely the tested, smash mouth physical Kings would teach them about playoff hockey. I mean that was a team of losers and castoffs that their own teams didn't want. Yeah, I listened to that theory before picking the Kings in our contest. Oops. Winning cures all.

 

So what is the point of all of this rambling?  I do agree that a few bad eggs need to be gone: Fauk for sure, probably Rask, even Lindholm if we could get return, or Hanifin for the same. BUT: Job one is to get the talent. Job two is to get the heart and soul. In that order. Get a good goalie who doesn't suck and win, get a true 1C who drives offense and score more and start winning, and guys like Skinner will get back to the Skinner of the two previous seasons rather than this one.

 

If we get into the playoffs and are t0o soft and fold, then fine, call me out and adjust. But get in. For all that's good and just, get in. And that won't happen just adding tough guys. They can yell and grit all over the place while Darling lets in one soft goal after another and forwards can't score and it will mean squat. Get guys who can play their position. Start there. My opinion is that will work with just minor adjustments for "won't lose" guys.

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My point has nothing to do with toughness or being soft or feeling the need for gritty players. My desire is to acquire players that refuse to take shifts off for the hell of it. TT had a good year but took skating vacations as well. Trading him without getting an equal return doesn't make sense but if a trade for an equivalent talent that puts out 100%, I'm all in.  Lindholm played when he wanted to and took many nights off. Skinner pouting for 3/4 of a season is unacceptable. He's getting paid for his skills and didn't perform. Roddy never took a shift off and that is what we need going forward. I believe the team wants to win but unless each one puts out 100% every shift it ain't gonna happen. This is the problem with the existing team that needs to change. Everyone has to look themselves in the mirror and ask did I give 100% tonight. My eye test and most others would probably agree many were along for the ride many nights. Total buy in and commitment isn't something that is light a light switch to be turned on and off. Our team is like a dimmer switch that is adjusted nightly based on their desire that given night. Loosing breeds Loosing? Rediculous! That would only happen if you are not committed. Can our players commit to 100 % all of the time? I don't know. It's usually something that isn't acquired over time but something in their makeup/DNA as an individual. Vegas is the perfect example. Their not winning because they are gritty or tough. They were cast offs  as C players or due to their age. That squad had something to prove and gave 100% all season and into the playoffs. It started game one,shift one. No one takes nights off. Are their players more talented than ours? In most cases NO It's their desire and commitment level that is head and shoulders over our team. Many of our losses this year were 3rd period melt downs. The opposition just needed to keep coming knowing that we would fold. They knew we weren't going to play at a high level all game and that we would take shifts off for the hell of it. 

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Just checked pricing on the Checkers Tickets for the first round of Playoffs. Great seats and many tkts available.Second row tkts for $30.00

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1 hour ago, slapshot02 said:

Just checked pricing on the Checkers Tickets for the first round of Playoffs. Great seats and many tkts available.Second row tkts for $30.00

 

 

I'll be there Saturday.  Still not hitting games like i'd hoped i would but i'm at least getting a game or two here and there.

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On 4/17/2018 at 3:14 PM, Derailed75 said:

Just as much as better talent could have vaulted the team into the playoffs so could better coaching decisions 

Not without goaltending. It is always the x factor in this game and always will be.

 

I don't think the proxy fight was on BP, but RF. For all his talk about getting out of the gate fast, we lose a key playing partner for Skinner and he sits on his hands. Skinner plays great the first two months of the season anyway with no help, still puts up 50 points--but it was inevitable that he would run out of gas.

 

Of the other forwards on the roster, who would you have put on the third line to assure that line was a scoring threat, other than Skinner?

 

Which is my point: When you look at it from BP's point of view, he had no other options but to slot Skinner there and hope that somebody would be if not as reliable as Stemp, at least serviceable alongside Skinner. 

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1 hour ago, bluedevil58 said:

I'm convinced there was one reason why we didn't make the playoffs this season.  That reason was Darling.   How many games did he cost the team?  10, 12, 15?

 

I don't think you will get any arguments on this point.  I think if we had league average goaltending (which is what we thought we would get), we would have been around 100 points.  Darling killed us this year.  Unless we buy him out, he will be on the team next year.  I imagine we will see if he can be corrected in the off-season.  If he plays like this again next year, we bury him in the minors and buy him out next off-season.  One thing is for sure, we cannot enter the 18-19 season with the same goaltending situation.  Unfortunately, I think this means the end of the line for Ward in NC.

 

The only silver lining I see is that he has shown the ability to bounce back from adversity in the past.  I am interested to see how he responds to his very poor performance this year.. 

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3 hours ago, ironman87 said:

 

  Darling killed us this year. 

 

Watching Elliot kill the Flyers in the playoffs is a PTSD experience.  Since I hate both teams, I can watch a little more objectively.  You can just see the Flyers corps DIE when he lets in a classic Darlingesque softie, as he has nearly every game.  Shoulder slumps, skating off without any push, etc.  Just. Kills. The. Team.

Edited by wxray1

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8 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

 

Watching Elliot kill the Flyers in the playoffs is a PTSD experience.  Since I hate both teams, I can watch a little more objectively.  You can just see the Flyers corps DIE when he lets in a classic Darlingesque softie, as he has nearly every game.  Shoulder slumps, skating off without any push, etc.  Just. Kills. The. Team.

This is part of what I'm on about with our team. Goal after goal, game after game. Eventually they stop wanting to kill themselves. Not good, probably not right, but probably at least part of the problem. Note our record playing in front of Cam, not exactly a top 15 goalie. Same players in front of him well above real .500.

 

So we get a new coach. New players. Fine, we've been doing that. Just about every team that makes the playoffs and goes deep has good goaltending. Put a good goalie behind this team and see how many problems go away. 

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Times they are a changing

 

Canes Country says " A team source tells Canes Country that Francis’ former office on the fourth floor of PNC Arena has been cleaned out and the nameplate is off the door, which doesn’t preclude his moving to another office but indicates that his stature within the front office may have changed somewhat".

 

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I kinda laughed at that whole thing if true then both parties want the other to leave, so what else is there to do but make it official lol?

 

How do you flip from fully supporting the coach with multiple glowing statements and now want him gone? Either you talk out of both sides of your mouth or you got your feelings hurt.

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I can see Peters walking tomorrow too and it would be best scenario for both parties. I think he is aware that he'll most likely get canned after any kind of team struggle next season. He'll still get his paycheck but he won't have the choice between 3-4 teams like he has right now. On the other hand, TD would be off the hook having to pay him and he can let the new GM, supposing there will be one not named Dundon, bring in his own coaching staff. Will be interesting to see who they'll come up with.  

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The line I find most disturbing in that entire article is "Perhaps Rod Brind'Amour."

 

I will be disappointed if Peters goes. I will be livid if Roddy becomes HC.

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