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4 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

For those who have put Artemi Panarin"s name out for us to consider, I think the present saga playing out in the media at least, between him and Kekalainen is interesting? From what I sense, his teammates, or at least a few, were somewhat shocked that a deal has not been consummated. Now I do not pretend to know anything about Columbus, but what this all sounds like is the kid wants the "bright lights", and without a significant other, with its responsibilities, I see no way the Canes could be in on his attraction to our area?

 

From what I have seen floating around ( I can find the source if needed) Panarin is willing to sign a 2-3 year deal but nothing long term in Columbus.  Columbus wants the long term deal.  Why not? if Columbus doesnt progress in that time frame he can leave.  Gives Panarin an out if Bob leaves and they fall into Hurricanes level goaltending.  If Panarin would sign a 3 yeal deal, I would add him to the squad.  Maybe even help us recruit Bob next off-season.

Edited by gocanes0506
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I agree none of us knows if Necas will make the team. There is no guarantee that Svech will either. It's fun to predict. I obviously think he sticks and it won't even be close, but until he gets here, who knows? But we potentially we may not know until all of camp, pre-season, and even into the season for sure. No need to wait until then to offer opinions on it. That said, it does sort of seem like the conversation has run into a place that it's hard to add much until he gets on the ice. 

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17 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

Why can't we just let Necas prove whether he belongs?

I honestly think he is already on the roster, in pencil at least. But what's the harm in discussing the prudence of putting him there, at this stage of his development and the org's rebuild?

 

I'm not denigrating his skill or saying he can't/won't be good, or even incredible. I'm just asking: why not get him some time on this size ice, and get him used to the grind of a much busier schedule and much more travel. Let alone, a whole new culture? The competition of camp and the excitement of making the roster makes it easy to overlook the possible longer-term effects of those things on somebody who hasn't yet dealt with them. To wit:

 

Say Martin kills it in camp and breezes onto the opening-night roster. And say he starts really hot: points in his first 10 games, or something similarly ridiculous (in a good way). At that point there's no turning back. But guess what? He has 72 games left to play (hopefully more)--three times the number he played last season, in a league which, while good, can't hold a candle to the NHL. How much of his performance is attributable to the adrenaline of making the roster? Once it has burned off and he comes back to earth, he's looking, in my opinion, at a much steeper climb than a guy who has played the last couple of years in the A, and has learned how to pace himself.

 

Everybody points to Aho. How soon we forget. He went scoreless in his first 13 games, scored 2, and then scored 1 more in his next 11. The NHL is a very tough league, and this club has stocked the cupboard specifically to assure it doesn't need to rush anybody. That's even more true if there are more O-side acquisitions in the offing. So, why risk it? Why not allow him develop him in every sense, including how to manage the grind? 

 

Seems like a reasonable discussion to me, and the right time to be having it. 

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I honestly think he is already on the roster, in pencil at least. But what's the harm in discussing the prudence of putting him there, at this stage of his development and the org's rebuild?

 

Yeah, it does seem that way.  Never said it wasn't worth a discussion Top.  Several people seemed rather black and white that he's being rushed.  I was only responding to that shared opinion, no one in particular.  I mostly agree with you btw, with an exception or two.

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It should be up to Rod whether he stays in Raleigh or starts in Charlotte. If upper management is going to force roster decisions on Rod, then they must not have confidence that he is the right guy to be our coach. I’m not saying that will happen though, just that it shouldn’t.

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When it comes to Necas for me, it's about a real positive for this team, really from the moment he was drafted. While Svech is a gift from on high, the rest of the future elite scoring core did come from the Francis era (Aho and TT were both really killer moves) and Necas. Necas slipped from where many had him going, and I felt he was a steal at the draft. Then he came into camps and flashed that speed and skill, but was a toothpick and not quite ready. 

 

Now we learn that he took that year and attacked it in all ways to make him a bigger, stronger, better player. He won MVP of his men's league and dominated the World Juniors on a team that is historically not that great. 

 

Watching lots of amazingly talented hockey players in development camp, training camp and all of these years with the Canes, there are still only a few guys who have so much raw talent or speed or both to easily stand out. Skinner was one of them. Just waiting for him to touch the puck. Aho was one of them especially when he came back to the second camp. To me TT had and has that look too. I assume Svechnikov will have it, and to my eye even last year Necas had it. Those guys don't tend to need AHL time. Not saying they couldn't make some use of it, but playing that level of player in the NHL is just not about selling tickets. (BTW I'm not sure I saw it with Lindholm, and I think his being rushed did hurt him, but again Necas was not pushed here as an 18 yo the way Lindholm was). 

 

But I am so excited and bullish on Necas that I am predicting that when he does hit the ice, the debate will quickly end, and that will be because we can just see how good he is. Which is a great thing for us fans. Not only making the team better, but also really fun to watch. 

 

If we keep Skinner, we will have 5 guys I would pay to watch just them play. That would be pretty amazing.

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4 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I honestly think he is already on the roster, in pencil at least. But what's the harm in discussing the prudence of putting him there, at this stage of his development and the org's rebuild?

 

I'm not denigrating his skill or saying he can't/won't be good, or even incredible. I'm just asking: why not get him some time on this size ice, and get him used to the grind of a much busier schedule and much more travel. Let alone, a whole new culture? The competition of camp and the excitement of making the roster makes it easy to overlook the possible longer-term effects of those things on somebody who hasn't yet dealt with them. To wit:

 

Say Martin kills it in camp and breezes onto the opening-night roster. And say he starts really hot: points in his first 10 games, or something similarly ridiculous (in a good way). At that point there's no turning back. But guess what? He has 72 games left to play (hopefully more)--three times the number he played last season, in a league which, while good, can't hold a candle to the NHL. How much of his performance is attributable to the adrenaline of making the roster? Once it has burned off and he comes back to earth, he's looking, in my opinion, at a much steeper climb than a guy who has played the last couple of years in the A, and has learned how to pace himself.

 

Everybody points to Aho. How soon we forget. He went scoreless in his first 13 games, scored 2, and then scored 1 more in his next 11. The NHL is a very tough league, and this club has stocked the cupboard specifically to assure it doesn't need to rush anybody. That's even more true if there are more O-side acquisitions in the offing. So, why risk it? Why not allow him develop him in every sense, including how to manage the grind? 

 

Seems like a reasonable discussion to me, and the right time to be having it. 

 

 

One thing you’re over looking is the amount of games he actually played last season.  He did only have 24 games in the Czech league, but factoring in all the different leagues and tournaments he participated in, he played 68 games last year, which is the typical amount of games a player plays in the OHL.  He’s played against grown men, guys his age, top prospects in the world, and NHL players, and played well at each level.  And I remember Necas saying he sees NA ice being even more beneficial because it takes less time to create plays on the ice.  I don’t think Carolina’s rushing him, I just think he’s the best player we have that hasn’t made the roster yet.  And let’s not forget that BP saw fit to keep him with the team through the first couple games last year. 

Edited by PenaltyKiller17
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9 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

Training camp is going to be insane this year.   Brindy's first training camp.  Ouch.

For all the players  going through  navy seals boot camp under Brind'Amour  training all  Steve Smith has to say to that is .  image.jpeg.6c8650a5291e237a648510b549dfcb90.jpeg

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8 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

Training camp is going to be insane this year.   Brindy's first training camp.  Ouch.

 

Maybe we can get him off to a good start and send him away to some useless tournament in mid September.

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14 hours ago, PenaltyKiller17 said:

One thing you’re over looking is the amount of games he actually played last season.  He did only have 24 games in the Czech league, but factoring in all the different leagues and tournaments he participated in, he played 68 games last year, which is the typical amount of games a player plays in the OHL.

Actually, that's not right, although I almost made the same mistake, because of how Elite Prospects displays guys' tournament play numbers. If you just total all the games in Martin's GP columns during 17-18, you get 81 (you may have overlooked his 14 Czech league playoff games, which are broken out separately, to the right of the regular-season stats). But the site also aggregates stats from each type of tournament in a separate listing, in the same column where the stats from each tourney are listed. They aggregate U19 all, U20 all, International all. So you have to discount those aggregates (which, by the way, don't always add up), or you'll inadvertently double the count of tournament games. 

 

Martin's total non-tournament games last year, including playoffs and his one game in the NHL, was 39. In tournament play, he had 2 games in U19, 7 in U20, and 9 in International, a grand total of 57, or, if you prefer, 48 total against "grown men" (39 in league play + 9 at Worlds).

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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I agree that camp will be insane this year. Not only will we see a hard driving coach known as one of the fittest players around driving fitness, but we will have more talent in camp than ever before, as well as more new players on the roster than ever, from trades, UFA, and drafted guys. For those who like to watch camp to try to assess new players including recently drafted guys, and assess the progress or possible camp breakouts of guys in the AHL or College or just drafted, there are so many it will be impossible to watch them all.

 

To me every non NHL name on this list has significant NHL potential and worth watching, and the Vets we've not really seen much of also:

 

New Vets: 

Hamilton, Ferland, DeHaan, Martinook, (Maenalanen), Mrazek

 

Prime Draft Picks with less than 2 NHL games:

Necas, Svechnikov, Fox, Bean, 

 

Guys from AHL w/ good AHL stats, but unproven NHL:

Foegele, Zykov, Walmark

 

Guys from AHL with high hopes, and flashes of very good, but still not broken into NHL

Kuokanen, Roy, Gauthier, McKeown, Carrick, Nedeljkovic, Saarela

 

Other previous and and current drafted guys with upside:

Geekie, Cotton, Luostarinin, Drury

 

And of course who doesn't want to study Darling for signs of hope. Then there's the Captaincy and how Skinner looks if he is not traded, and the whole Faulk thing, or even more new guys if more moves are made. How does Rask look post surgery? And I'm sure I've left some important name or names off that list up there.

 

All of that drafting, trading for picks/prospects, and building is really starting to show beneath a pretty active offseason. Since the cup year, we've never brought this much skill into a camp IMO, not really even close.

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Brindy: You gotta have the skill, but otherwise the number one thing you want is a kid who works hard. (paraphrased). 

 

Put that together with the info about what Necas has been up to? :D

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This is the second time I've heard HCRB say at a point [paraphrasing] you just have to let the players do what they do best, and just let em' play.

 

No more tight gaps will be different.

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33 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

This is the second time I've heard HCRB say at a point [paraphrasing] you just have to let the players do what they do best, and just let em' play.

 

No more tight gaps will be different.

Do we have that level of talent? To let players do what they do best and be competitive?

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21 minutes ago, Bonivan said:

Do we have that level of talent? To let players do what they do best and be competitive?

 

I only know what I think he's saying, and in the context that he's talking about young hockey players.  I think his coaching style is going to be 360 degrees from Peters.  Obviously that's just my own feeling.

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2 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

This is the second time I've heard HCRB say at a point [paraphrasing] you just have to let the players do what they do best, and just let em' play.

 

No more tight gaps will be different.

I think you make an interesting point. I think you mean less tight adherence to the structure and more free-style play? But it got me thinking about coaching style too.

 

I had sort of assumed Brind'Amour would be a tough, no nonsense type coach. But what you're pointing out combined with other things I've heard him say, suggests he might not be quite that simple about it. I'm thinking he might be tough on preparation and fitness and work before games (not really yelling at guys, but being firm), but looser (in terms of letting the boys play) and more supportive during game play. 

 

I've mentioned before, I was lucky enough to attend a lunch with Brind'Amour a few years back (there were about 100 people there, so others here might have been there too). Anyway, there was a question and answer period and my brother asked him about the importance of confidence for a player. He said it was huge, and when guys lost it, it was hard to find again. I find it interesting because this recent quote about letting the players play included the idea of confidence, and he linked confidence with having fun. I've thought about my own days playing basketball, and while I wasn't great, I did have moments where I got in the "zone". Thinking back, I could best describe the zone as letting my game out and having fun (as opposed to trying not to make a mistake and having nerves). I think the zone is a strange mix of intense focus and relaxed fun. 

 

So what if Brind'Amour could get guys in the "zone" more often? How would a coach do that? I'm thinking maybe it would be a "work hard/play hard" thing. Work hard to stay fit, and in practice to prepare, but during the game, emphasize the play part. Play hard, but play. Have fun. Cam Ward talks about that a lot too. And this group might be the perfect ones for that approach too. Once you've done the work of fitness and practice ahead of time, let your game out, during the, well, game. Emphasize the positive as much as possible during games.

 

Not sure if that was at least part of what you meant or even if that will happen, but it seems like it could work and he might do it. After all, I doubt he would have been held in such high regard by players as a captain if he was just yelling at people all the time. 

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Having a good Character  is  what  Coaches look for .   Work ethic  and  positive attitude  as the key things  they want their team to have .    It's kinda like that  factor of one bad apple spoils the bunch .   The coaches don't want any bad apples .   That's how they can translate it all to having success .    Brind'Amour must  of gave his opinion at a time or two on who he would want to come play for this team even when Bill Peters , or Kirk  Muller was coach  or else he would not of wanted the job of coaching it himself  . 

 

  

Edited by Canesfanforever

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