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Off-Season 2018

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36 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Well, he was willing to make the tough trades (acquiring Dubnyk) and made really good splashes in the FA market (Parise/Suter).  

Yes, but his busts were legendary. And they are currently struggling much like us. Thus, I say no to that one.

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37 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Glowing reports there, I admit slap, but read what 1 blogger for Minnesota, Dan Wallace writes over on Hockey Buzz(sorry I cannot transfer). Admitting that Dubnyk was a steal(one I covet), and Niederreiter has been another well played trade, and of course the twin signings of Suter and Parise could never be denied, he 1st cites Brent Burns for Charlie Coyle several years ago as a real head scratcher. Then, apparently he ransomed the farm for last 2-3 years on "rentals" getting Hanzal, Ryan White and Jason Pominville, while trading away 1st and 2nd rounders. Then finally his negotiation of the expansion draft apparently was not very deft.

 

Now in all of this, I'll admit that this analysis was just that 1 blogger's analysis. And, Wild fans may just be in the "what have you done for me lately" mentality at not being able to get over the 1st round hump(as if we here might not want to at least be there), but I'm just not sure if this sounds too good to me. You? 

Edited by KJUNKANE

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Today Patrick O Sullivan had a lot of good things to say about Fletcher. And Minnesota has drafted well. I first thought of the crazy UFA thing with Parise and Sutter's deals, but POS pointed out that was the owner saying get those guys. Also, I"d take at least one big UFA signing now. We could probably do worse. And if the guy fixed their goalie problem, which he did, that might be enough by itself.

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25 minutes ago, remkin said:

Today Patrick O Sullivan had a lot of good things to say about Fletcher. And Minnesota has drafted well. I first thought of the crazy UFA thing with Parise and Sutter's deals, but POS pointed out that was the owner saying get those guys. Also, I"d take at least one big UFA signing now. We could probably do worse. And if the guy fixed their goalie problem, which he did, that might be enough by itself.

 

I also think that Suter and Parise choosing the Wild had more to do with the location than anything else.  Parise’s from Minneapolis, and Suter’s from the bordering state of Wisconsin.  I’d accept him if that’s who they chose I guess, but he’s not my preference.

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4 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Yes, but his busts were legendary. And they are currently struggling much like us. Thus, I say no to that one.

 

The Wild are struggling? They've actually made the playoffs three six years in a row, where the Hurricanes haven't so much as sniffed the playoffs in nine years, and they're struggling?

 

Edited by JonKerfoot
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38 minutes ago, JonKerfoot said:

 

The Wild are struggling? They've actually made the playoffs three years in a row, where the Hurricanes haven't so much as sniffed the playoffs in nine years, and they're struggling?

 

In their minds, JonKerfoot, if you paid attention to what I wrote? No, also as I mention, I would love for us to have done so.

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I’m not sure Fletcher is a better GM than Francis. He did not just have the homecoming piece when he signed Parise and Sutter, he had lots of $$$$$$ which PK would never spend. No one wants to mention that he also signed a FA 2 years ago, 3 years for $10.5 million,  who scored 42 goals this year. Is Minnesota close to Thunder Bay? Anyway, the biggest impact this has on the Canes is we are now competing for a GM with a team that sells out every game, and definitely spends to the salary cap. Also, an Islanders blogger on Hockey Buzz says Garth Snow May be reassigned and the Islanders also looking for a GM. We may now be the 3rd most attractive destination for a prospective GM. 

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7 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

Also, an Islanders blogger on Hockey Buzz says Garth Snow May be reassigned and the Islanders also looking for a GM. We may now be the 3rd most attractive destination for a prospective GM. 

 

 

I'll agree that if all of the prospective GMs were to put together their wishlist of destinations, the Hurricanes wouldn't be in the higher reaches of many of them.  I can't imagine the Islanders would be either.  I'd call it a toss-up.

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1 minute ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

I'll agree that if all of the prospective GMs were to put together their wishlist of destinations, the Hurricanes wouldn't be in the higher reaches of many of them.  I can't imagine the Islanders would be either.  I'd call it a toss-up.

Well New York is New York, but the Islanders do have a lot of challenges, I’ll admit. The implication was that the team wanted to show real commitment to positive change to woo Tavares to stay. 

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1 hour ago, bluedevilcane said:

I’m not sure Fletcher is a better GM than Francis. He did not just have the homecoming piece when he signed Parise and Sutter, he had lots of $$$$$$ which PK would never spend. No one wants to mention that he also signed a FA 2 years ago, 3 years for $10.5 million,  who scored 42 goals this year. Is Minnesota close to Thunder Bay? Anyway, the biggest impact this has on the Canes is we are now competing for a GM with a team that sells out every game, and definitely spends to the salary cap. Also, an Islanders blogger on Hockey Buzz says Garth Snow May be reassigned and the Islanders also looking for a GM. We may now be the 3rd most attractive destination for a prospective GM. 

 

You're omitting the year Parise and Suter were signed, the Carolina Hurricanes pursued both Parise and Suter.  That was also the year JR brought in Jordan and Semin, so they were willing to spend the money.  And yes btw, Minneapolis is close to Thunder Bay (5hr drive or 1hr flight).  Also, his trade and draft history is pretty atrocious.  Now, Minnesota is in cap hell, with the oldest core in the league, can barely sign their RFA's, and aren't even close to being a legit cup contender.  

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2 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

In their minds, JonKerfoot, if you paid attention to what I wrote? No, also as I mention, I would love for us to have done so.

 

I politely beg to differ, Kjun.

 

I responded to your post in which you said that "they are currently struggling much like we are." Not the one where you quote a single solitary blogger on Hockey Buzz. Are you denying that "they are currently struggling much like we are" were your words? If they're not your words, why didn't you say, much as you did later, that "Wild fans are saying..."?

 

Look, I hate to be cruel about this (wait, no -- I don't hate it!), but if Fletcher isn't good enough for the Hurricanes, maybe the Hurricanes should go after the GM who is the most successful current GM, with at least three Stanley Cup wins, the last two in a row? Oh, wait - he's got a sweet gig right now, and it's in Pittsburgh. ;)

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4 hours ago, remkin said:

Today Patrick O Sullivan had a lot of good things to say about Fletcher. And Minnesota has drafted well. I first thought of the crazy UFA thing with Parise and Sutter's deals, but POS pointed out that was the owner saying get those guys. Also, I"d take at least one big UFA signing now. We could probably do worse. And if the guy fixed their goalie problem, which he did, that might be enough by itself.

 

Thankfully, Tommy would never meddle like that.

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1 hour ago, JonKerfoot said:

 

I politely beg to differ, Kjun.

 

I responded to your post in which you said that "they are currently struggling much like we are." Not the one where you quote a single solitary blogger on Hockey Buzz. Are you denying that "they are currently struggling much like we are" were your words? If they're not your words, why didn't you say, much as you did later, that "Wild fans are saying..."?

 

Look, I hate to be cruel about this (wait, no -- I don't hate it!), but if Fletcher isn't good enough for the Hurricanes, maybe the Hurricanes should go after the GM who is the most successful current GM, with at least three Stanley Cup wins, the last two in a row? Oh, wait - he's got a sweet gig right now, and it's in Pittsburgh. ;)

Polite or cruel, makes no difference to me JonKerfoot, you obviously saw my 2nd post whereI expanded on that 1st brief reflection, so if you'd prefer to single that out, okay. And yes, I did choose the 1 blogger, and might point out I STATE THAT, but I also admit I know very little about Minnesota, or their GM. Do you? Fletcher may very well be a savior for our team, and I readily concede that also, but it's also undeniable that besides that single blogger you appear to discount, the Wild owner is changing directions. And to that, despite "9 years of experience" and "willing to make moves", I for one have to ask, WHY?

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I would say that 9 years is a pretty long run for a GM these days. It may just have been that the time ran out on the relationship. I guess the owner must have wanted better playoff results. Quoting Patrick O Sullivan, he felt that Minnesota had also run into really good teams in the playoffs, Chicago a couple of times and Winnipeg this year. I don't really know him at all, so not trying to push him, but his signing of our ex captain turned out to be one of the better UFA signings in recent history and he got Dubnick for a late round draft pick, and Minnesota has drafted really well, and he has a lot of experience. 

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

I would say that 9 years is a pretty long run for a GM these days. It may just have been that the time ran out on the relationship. I guess the owner must have wanted better playoff results. Quoting Patrick O Sullivan, he felt that Minnesota had also run into really good teams in the playoffs, Chicago a couple of times and Winnipeg this year. I don't really know him at all, so not trying to push him, but his signing of our ex captain turned out to be one of the better UFA signings in recent history and he got Dubnick for a late round draft pick, and Minnesota has drafted really well, and he has a lot of experience. 

True those rem, but 1 question, but make no mistake, I certainly am willing to give Fletcher the benefit of the doubt, but my question is this, Drafting well seems to suggest that was him? Am I wrong that the scouts are critical here, and isn't it a collective effort for which he gets credit?

 

There's no question that after the frugal atmosphere, to put it mildly, that we fans suffered under for most of the time during JR's leadership, and the decided timidity for any significant trade during Rf's leadership, that having a General manager who could and would act decisively would be a breath of fresh air. Is this our man?

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18 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Glowing reports there, I admit slap, but read what 1 blogger for Minnesota, Dan Wallace writes over on Hockey Buzz(sorry I cannot transfer). Admitting that Dubnyk was a steal(one I covet), and Niederreiter has been another well played trade, and of course the twin signings of Suter and Parise could never be denied, he 1st cites Brent Burns for Charlie Coyle several years ago as a real head scratcher. Then, apparently he ransomed the farm for last 2-3 years on "rentals" getting Hanzal, Ryan White and Jason Pominville, while trading away 1st and 2nd rounders. Then finally his negotiation of the expansion draft apparently was not very deft.

 

Now in all of this, I'll admit that this analysis was just that 1 blogger's analysis. And, Wild fans may just be in the "what have you done for me lately" mentality at not being able to get over the 1st round hump(as if we here might not want to at least be there), but I'm just not sure if this sounds too good to me. You? 

Yes I have read some of the negatives but at least the guy made some trades that RF was never capable of doing. 

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Fletcher is probably a great GM, but I think a lot of people might be missing the big glaring issue here (or at least not mentioning it)...... Fletcher and any other legit GM is going to need more than $400k per year. Once again, even with a new owner, the Canes are looking to go cheap. That doesn't sit well with me. And how does it look to the players.? They want to win, but play for a tightwad team who won't go spend what they need to win. Ownership is going to have to take some losses, get some wins, and bring the fans back. It's called an "investment". I'm sure all of these guys heard of that somewhere in business school. You put up the money first then reap the rewards later.....and you have to spend big to win big! :)   

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10 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

True those rem, but 1 question, but make no mistake, I certainly am willing to give Fletcher the benefit of the doubt, but my question is this, Drafting well seems to suggest that was him? Am I wrong that the scouts are critical here, and isn't it a collective effort for which he gets credit?

 

There's no question that after the frugal atmosphere, to put it mildly, that we fans suffered under for most of the time during JR's leadership, and the decided timidity for any significant trade during Rf's leadership, that having a General manager who could and would act decisively would be a breath of fresh air. Is this our man?

 

Of course I'm not shy about offering an opinion without being and expert, but on this one, I'm pretty far out on the "I don't really know" limb. I'm reading the tea leaves but I've only looked at a couple of leaves. I do respect Patrick O'Sullivan's point of view, but most of my thoughts are based on him, not really digging too deep into this.  And sort of generalizations. For instance being not renewed after 9 years as GM. It is always bad to be fired, but then he was one of the longest tenured GMs in hockey apparently. Coaches have a shorter half life, but GM's do have one. Sure, legendary GM's, or GM's with multiple cups, tend to stay for long runs, but there aren't many of those. Plus the owner plays a big role too. Some owners are loyal to a fault and some are itchier to pull that trigger (wonder which type we have)?

 

I am far from starting a petition to bring Fletcher in here, but there are upsides. This is a proven, experienced GM to help calm the fears of good coaches or even UFA's that the owner might be constantly meddling, and at least has zero hockey experience. It's a guy from outside that can bring a new look. etc.

 

GM's probably do get too much credit or blame for drafting, but their the final decision maker, so at least some credit or blame is fair.

 

Still, my personal, gut feeling is that an assistant from a long winning program who is analytically driven, (note I'm not talking just Corsi and possession stats, I'm talking truly advanced stats), who has been seated at the right hand of a master GM would be ideal. The guy in Tampa seems like a grade A example. But we already made a run at those guys, and they politely told us "pass". I hope we can circle back on one or two of them. But if not? I don't want a guy from inside, and I surely don't want the 5th string guy from some average team. If those younger upstarts balk, then a guy like Fletcher might not be the worst choice.

 

But again, it's hard to follow other team's players let a alone coaches, let alone GM's, so I'm just throwing some stuff into the wind here.

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13 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Polite or cruel, makes no difference to me JonKerfoot, you obviously saw my 2nd post whereI expanded on that 1st brief reflection, so if you'd prefer to single that out, okay. And yes, I did choose the 1 blogger, and might point out I STATE THAT, but I also admit I know very little about Minnesota, or their GM. Do you? Fletcher may very well be a savior for our team, and I readily concede that also, but it's also undeniable that besides that single blogger you appear to discount, the Wild owner is changing directions. And to that, despite "9 years of experience" and "willing to make moves", I for one have to ask, WHY?

 

But that makes it sound, Kjun, like you're saying "oh, he got fired from the Wild. We don't want someone who was fired because that means he wasn't good enough for his owner there." If the Hurricanes persevere in trying to find the perfect candidate - excellent experience as an advanced-analytics guy; never made a mistake that caused him to be fired from his GM position - they will never have a GM, TomD will be the defacto GM and the fans' worst fears of a Charlie Finley/Al Davis (side question - what is it about Oakland that makes for flaky owners?) type of owner will be realized.

 

Insofar as the "single blogger" is concerned, you're darn tootin' I discount him. Blogs are opinion pieces, even though they may be based on fact, and the vast majority of blogs, IMO, are started because the person who is writing them thinks they know their subject better than even the best experts of their time. If that were true, wouldn't all hockey bloggers be at least GM candidates, since they know so much about the game?

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Faulk was named for the King Clancy isn't that voted on by members of the team or is it media?

 

Regardless some group of people are high off magic beans.

Edited by legend-1
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