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Kaiton on the chopping block?

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40 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

Dundon operating a business as a business because he's a billionaire businessman - how hard is that to understand?

 

Its not the why its the how.

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40 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

Dundon operating a business as a business because he's a billionaire businessman - how hard is that to understand?

 

Its not the why its the how.

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1 hour ago, OBXer said:

 

Its not the why its the how.

 

Not this again.  It was "how" he moved/demoted/fired Francis, who as a GM could not make the move to make the team a playoff team.  It was "how" he didn't fire/strung along/let Peters quit.

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The NHL XM guys universally characterizing this as a total *edit* move.

 

its not as much the why and the how and the diminishing of the broadcast experience by using simulcast.

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1 hour ago, OBXer said:

Its not the why its the how.

 

From the article: "The broadcasters are employed by the team, and Forslund and Tracy both signed two-year extensions last summer while Kaiton chose to take a one-year deal."

 

From me: ...otherwise, we wouldn't be having this conversation this summer at all, and would instead be celebrating Chuck's 40th season as the franchise's play-by-play man throughout next season. 

 

But apparently Chuck decided last summer, when it became clear that buyer interest in the team was picking up, to commit to only one more year, so he could decide if he wanted to stay. He seems to have completely forgotten that when a contract expires, BOTH sides have to want to renew, not just one--and is now complaining because the new sheriff did a cost-benefit analysis and didn't see benefits justifying his cost.

 

Maybe he should talk to the Bobs.

 

 

  

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30 minutes ago, caneswincup said:

its not as much the why and the how and the diminishing of the broadcast experience by using simulcast.

The XM guys - a bunch of radio people - are upset. Stunning.

 

Had you even listened to "the broadcast experience" lately? Chuck complaining about the lack of a red line. About the scrums along the boards with no whistles. Endlessly. And then, out of nowhere, "...and he scores!" followed by Chuck describing whom, and how--as he watched the TV replay.

 

It was practically a simulcast already.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
missing word
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I think the world of Chuck and wish him well.  But company/organization loyalty went away years ago.  Ask me how I know.  His 39 years with the same organization is unheard of today and asking for more is not reasonable in today's business environment.  If 39 years isn't good enough, then tough.  How much more does he expect?  I was ousted after 24 years with a solid, conservative local company.  It was all about business, not loyalty.

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14 minutes ago, g105 said:

I think the world of Chuck and wish him well.  But company/organization loyalty went away years ago.  Ask me how I know.  His 39 years with the same organization is unheard of today and asking for more is not reasonable in today's business environment.  If 39 years isn't good enough, then tough.  How much more does he expect?  I was ousted after 24 years with a solid, conservative local company.  It was all about business, not loyalty.

 

Yeah, I understand that all too well, too.

 

Good luck, Chuck.

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7 hours ago, super_dave_1 said:

Even Fred Flintstone had a tv, folks.

 

IMG_0363.thumb.JPG.e94ab2244725c4f10957eee6d2e54de8.JPG

 

Chuck K has been a great ambassador for the team, but times change.  When you start blaming Dundon for not paying Kaiton, remember there are other expenses to creating a radio broadcast.  Financially, radio had to be a losing proposition.

I wish Chuck well and he has certainly been an asset to the Canes growth in Raleigh. The disturbing trend I see is Dundon hasn’t gone out and paid top dollar to bring in ANYONE. Don Waddell was really the best GM available? And Rod, I have high hopes for, but the Islanders went out and paid $5 million/year for the guy who just won the Stanley Cup and whose teams virtually always make the playoffs. What fraction of that are the Canes paying Rod? Our assistant coaches. An in house guy who was reassigned from coaching duties 2 years ago, and a guy who is coming from an ASSISTANT’S job in the Western Hockey League. Based on the comments on this board, it seems few really blame Dundon for cutting his losses on a dying medium. I get that. But somehow, it seems the best choice in every decision Dundon makes just happens to be the cheapest option. 

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10 hours ago, g105 said:

 Ask me how I know. 

Im asking-  Unless you are using your experience after 24 years with your company.  Many of us have undergone the "ouster" from companies we thought were loyal to us.  Companies are loyal to only the $$ and the shareholders.  Thats business.  As I have said MANY times before. As soon as you forget professional sports is a business you WILL eventually get butt hurt.  Chuck looked out for himself as he should.   

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9 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

I wish Chuck well and he has certainly been an asset to the Canes growth in Raleigh. The disturbing trend I see is Dundon hasn’t gone out and paid top dollar to bring in ANYONE. Don Waddell was really the best GM available? And Rod, I have high hopes for, but the Islanders went out and paid $5 million/year for the guy who just won the Stanley Cup and whose teams virtually always make the playoffs. What fraction of that are the Canes paying Rod? Our assistant coaches. An in house guy who was reassigned from coaching duties 2 years ago, and a guy who is coming from an ASSISTANT’S job in the Western Hockey League. Based on the comments on this board, it seems few really blame Dundon for cutting his losses on a dying medium. I get that. But somehow, it seems the best choice in every decision Dundon makes just happens to be the cheapest option. 

More of the same- We get it. PS - your horse died a looong time ago.

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This is not surprising in the least.  I liked Kaiton, but the economics are not there.  Dundon has said from day 1 that he looks for value and despite the nostalgia, Kaiton was not worth the money it took to put on the radio broadcast.  I have nostalgia about 8-track tapes and Blockbuster, too.  But they were replaced by newer, more advanced alternatives, making them very expensive unattractive options .   In Dundon's view we cannot afford the luxury of a money-losing sinkhole that is the radio broadcast.  I don't like the decision, but I definitely understand it.  As one of my B-school professors repeated all the time (he was quite liberal, BTW), "This is business, not benevolence." 

 

As for Dundon choosing the cheapest option, what about de Haan?  We could have had a plethora of cheaper options for a middle pairing LHD, but instead we gave 4.5M per year for that player whose underlying numbers are sneaky good.  That is not cheap, that is seeing underappreciated value and spending money on it.  My guess is that he's investing heavily in the most important part of the franchise and that is the players on the ice.  If we do well there, Chuck Kaiton talking about the red line during game action will not matter to the Hurricanes bottom line.   

 

I hope wherever Kaiton goes next, that the fans appreciate his sense of humor and unique delivery.  I will miss him.

 

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47 minutes ago, ironman87 said:

This is not surprising in the least.  I liked Kaiton, but the economics are not there.  Dundon has said from day 1 that he looks for value and despite the nostalgia, Kaiton was not worth the money it took to put on the radio broadcast.  I have nostalgia about 8-track tapes and Blockbuster, too.  But they were replaced by newer, more advanced alternatives, making them very expensive unattractive options .   In Dundon's view we cannot afford the luxury of a money-losing sinkhole that is the radio broadcast.  I don't like the decision, but I definitely understand it.  As one of my B-school professors repeated all the time (he was quite liberal, BTW), "This is business, not benevolence." 

 

As for Dundon choosing the cheapest option, what about de Haan?  We could have had a plethora of cheaper options for a middle pairing LHD, but instead we gave 4.5M per year for that player whose underlying numbers are sneaky good.  That is not cheap, that is seeing underappreciated value and spending money on it.  My guess is that he's investing heavily in the most important part of the franchise and that is the players on the ice.  If we do well there, Chuck Kaiton talking about the red line during game action will not matter to the Hurricanes bottom line.   

 

I hope wherever Kaiton goes next, that the fans appreciate his sense of humor and unique delivery.  I will miss him.

 

And that my friends is a wrap!! Thank you ironman87 and top, as well as all who have gotten past the emotions that surround this move and realize the impersonal side of "business". Look, I'm not being critical of anyone who feels sadness for this situation, but as top has pointed out, and if true, Kaiton seems to have had a hand in creating the drama involved with this "divorce", and could have chosen a less dramatic road to retirement. Apparently his personal life reflects his radio persona, blustery and dogmatic. Sayonara our beloved Curmudgeon. 

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5 hours ago, cc said:

More of the same- We get it. PS - your horse died a looong time ago.

And you’re a genius. Snarky personal attacks really improve the discussion on the board. I thought I was free to express an opinion here. Thanks for setting me straight.

 

I have said multiple times that Dundon paid a fortune for the team and can hire who he wants. But there is a pattern to the hires he has made on the management and coaching side. I hope they all work out. But it would be nice if some of the people he hired had a proven history of recent success at some level. Can’t think of which coach/GM/AGM that would be. That’s just my two cents ... but my horse ate it and died so never mind.

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With all the options out there, why would anyone watch hockey on the radio?  Evidently they don't, if you believe the numbers.  This is a tech savy area.  It's not surprising.  I understand the move and I also think Chuck with the letter K pulled the old fart card and was unwilling to do something other than punch the time clock, if you believe the reports.  Which is fine as well, he is an old school broadcaster.

 

Personally, I think cheap has nothing to do with this particular situation.  It was a no-win situation for both sides, and it was time to move on.

 

 

 

 

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I can't see how Tripps explanations and use of the telestrator will translate to simulcast.  

Edited by winger52

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1 minute ago, winger52 said:

I can't see how Tripps explanations and use of the telestrator  will translate to simulcast.  

Neither will anyone else! :coollaugh:

Edited by gocanes0506
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Seems like the Dundon has a very blunt style of managing people... It is what it is. Chuck will always be remembered and appreciated by the Caniac nation for his contribution and connection that we have to the organization and the game. He seems like a really good guy and a real fan of the sport. He educated a lot of ignorant fans and had a part in growing the sport in our region. For that I thank him.

Personally, I couldn't understand half of what he said. I'm not going to dump on him, I don't think he deserves anything but warm praise, but it wasn't a good experience for me trying to follow the gameplay through his words. It seemed incoherent at times and I couldn't follow his cadence well enough to know what happened. Like Top-Shelf-1 said, I'd be lost until I heard 'he scores!' with the same cadence no matter what team lit the lamp and I would have to pause what I was doing, focus and wait patiently until it was further explained because I had NO idea who even had the puck beforehand. Or, I'd try to remember where the game was being played and try to hear a goal horn or something that would indicate if the crowd was celebrating or not. If it was our goal-horn Chewbacca-'Yabba dabba do'-Ric Flair thing playing in the background then "Oh good, the Canes got a goal". I know it's hard to do play-by-play with a fast-paced sport, but I welcome a new voice through the radio... no offense to Mr. Kaiton.

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18 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

I thought I was free to express an opinion here.

Never said you werent.  I was just expressing my opinion that there is nothing new here.

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50 minutes ago, cc said:

Never said you werent.  I was just expressing my opinion that there is nothing new here.

It was actually a pretty good synopsis of a Dundon trend. Raises the question of whether the coaching staff is a weak link in this rebuild. 

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From the 99 the fan yesterday TD, said he wants to put all the money on the Ice. I'd rather have CDH on the ice than CK and a radio show that has a six figure deficit for 2000 listeners.  Now I dont believe CDH was signed because we arent having a radio show with its own voice.  Just making a point.  In the end I would rather have more investment on the ice than non-player stuff.

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15 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

From the 99 the fan yesterday TD, said he wants to put all the money on the Ice. I'd rather have CDH on the ice than CK and a radio show that has a six figure deficit for 2000 listeners.  Now I dont believe CDH was signed because we arent having a radio show with its own voice.  Just making a point.  In the end I would rather have more investment on the ice than non-player stuff.

 

 

And even in the realm of off-ice investments, i'd rather the team has an upgraded gym and hopefully eventually an upgraded practice facility than said radio show that few outside of Raleigh can listen to.

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