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You can find Skinner's most frequent linemates by year, and his production here.  Skinner never had much going with Jordan.  He produced pretty well with Ruutu during a couple of seasons.  But looking back, Skinner never has really played with what I would consider high caliber players. 

Edited by coastal_caniac

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On 5/19/2018 at 6:02 PM, wxray1 said:

 

I was going to post something about this earlier, but since I'm trying to quit the internet, I declined.  You stoked a fire.  :)

 

First, playoffs are different.  Always have been.  But...  I look at the Canes and the way they played this season, and I compare to any of these four teams and they way they are playing, and I am simply DISMAYED.  Not sunshine-rainbows-lollipops-unicorns. 

 

However, when I compare to regular season play... Well, the dismay gets worse!   The Canes were terrible in physicality and good, serious, useful shotmaking.  The physicality is one thing.  The quality of shots I've seen from these teams blows me away.  Seriously, the way Darls played, I could see 10 shots going in.

 

So, yeah, slaspshot, I share your concern.   The Committee better damn well get to work.

Agree. Big bad Ryan Reaves goal today sends Vegas to the cup finals. These big physical guys can play physical and score goals. Go get Wilson, or Reaves, or Austin Watson, or Lucic(very doubtful), or maybe a Wayne Simmonds, or one of the Thachuk boys.

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Reading that Boston is interested in Hannifin for Tory Krug, a prospect and 2nd round pick. Krug not a big guy but doesn’t let that interfere with his game and is strong on the PP. Last he also plays with heart something that’s in short supply here. Gotta give to get. 

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15 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

You can find Skinner's most frequent linemates by year, and his production here.  Skinner never had much going with Jordan.  He produced pretty well with Ruutu during a couple of seasons.  But looking back, Skinner never has really played with what I would consider high caliber players. 

 

I mis-remembered

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2 minutes ago, sundance-ch1 said:

During his rookie year, did Skinner play on a line with Eric Cole?

YES, and was rookie of the year at that.

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On 5/20/2018 at 8:42 AM, Kyrule said:

 

I just read PDG’s year in review and I found it interesting that Skinner averaged 0.60 points per game in 30 games with PDG as the other wing. He averaged 0.596 points per game in 52 games when someone else was on the wing. Almost identical, and actually fractionally lower without PDG.

 

This doesn’t match up with those saying that Skinner’s linemates were holding him back. Maybe Skinner’s numbers with Ryan would show something, or whoever was at center in general.

I'd be more interested in Skinner's PPG/linemates in the two years before. Since (I'm assuming) it was Stemp with Skinner for most of those other 30 games, these stats seem to confirm my eye test: That Stemp was a shadow of himself after returning from injury, and PDG wasn't any better than that while filling in. Ryan, meanwhile, pretty much disappeared for middle of the season and was only better when the games didn't matter anymore.

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7 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

Reading that Boston is interested in Hannifin for Tory Krug, a prospect and 2nd round pick. Krug not a big guy but doesn’t let that interfere with his game and is strong on the PP. Last he also plays with heart something that’s in short supply here. Gotta give to get. 

God, I'd do that deal in a heartbeat. Krug plays with an edge, has offense and D, and playoff chops.

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 of course Skinner put up nearly 40 goal last year with whoever he was playing with,  and even managed to place some defense.  I guess it all comes down to what Rod thinks of   Skinner and the situation.  I am assuming given Mackenzie's  contention that Skinner is gone  that the issues run fairly deep.  If that were not the case however I would be less inclined to trade Skinner before seeing if he can bounce back next year with a new coach a new approach and possibly new linemates.

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7 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

Reading that Boston is interested in Hannifin for Tory Krug, a prospect and 2nd round pick. Krug not a big guy but doesn’t let that interfere with his game and is strong on the PP. Last he also plays with heart something that’s in short supply here. Gotta give to get. 

 

Hanifin is 6 years younger, 6 inches taller, and listed as 20 lbs heavier (and likely to fill in even more). His ceiling is still a #1 d-man, though that's tempered by the fact that he's developing more slowly than we hoped (and lags behind peers Werenski and Provarov).  There is risk that he may not ever live up to the lofty projections for him when he was drafted.  On the other hand, we know what Krug is.

 

Given the current depth of our pipeline I see lower picks and anything less than elite prospects as carrying much less value for the Canes than they would have a couple years ago.  Seems to me like our trades should be such that we're the ones packaging futures in order to upgrade rather than the other way around.  If we add what I think we should be adding this summer, I'm trying to figure out what we do over the next couple years with the plethora of good forward prospects we've already got.  

 

I'm very open to dealing Hanifin.  I was all for trading Hanifin for a top line forward last summer (if such a deal was available) and picking up a mid tier veteran to take his spot.  And I'd love to have Krug.  But given the age differential and Hanifin's potential (if uncertain) ceiling, I'd want something different coming back with Krug besides a 2nd and a prospect. 

 

One other thought: given that we've got Slavin, Hanifin, Fleury, and Bean on the left side and another expansion draft coming up shortly, I wonder if that weighs in on the type moves the committee might make?

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On 5/19/2018 at 11:14 AM, remkin said:

Some interesting stuff on Bob McKenzie's Pod cast related to us. https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/the-tsn-hockey-bobcast-season-2-episode-18-1.1088242 (near the start, till about 16 minutes).

 

For those that don't follow him, McKenzie is one of the most dialed in guys out there. He gets a lot of stuff directly from GMs and teams. I'm going to break this into two posts:  One about ROR and one about "other" moves, Jeff Skinner.

 

The Sabres are open to moving Ryan O'Reilly. McKenzie lists us first as teams that would be interested, and then Montreal, and no further teams. Some interesting points:

 

ROR has a weirdly structured deal where he gets almost his entire salary before the season starts in the form of a $7.5 million signing bonus on July 1, then around $1 million for the rest of the year. McKenzie calls this "buyout proofing". So, the price in terms of return would go way up if the Sabres pay that bonus then trade him. To me this is a golden opportunity to pay a lower "return" price by paying that bonus. We have no cap issues this year.

 

Reportedly they are asking for a deal like the Mike Richards trade which returned a young Wayne Simmonds, prospect Brayden Schenn and a second round pick. This could be some combination of our good non Necas prospects and picks. But what of Faulk plus picks or plus Wallmark and a pick.

 

ROR is 27 years old, a center, an puts up 20-25 goals, 55-60 points pretty consistently. This is not John Tavares. And one of the things that McKenzie thinks could limit teams paying up for ROR is waiting until JT goes somewhere. ROR has a $7.5 million cap hit, which is pretty pricey for his production, but his deal is front loaded, after this next year, he makes $6 million/year. AND he does not have a NTC. So unless his game falls off the earth, he can be traded at the end if cap space is an issue. BUT unlike UFA's who tend to be starting their deals at 30-31. ROR, at 27, will only be 32 on the last year on this deal.

 

I am really really intrigued by this option. Of course, JT moves us instantly one goalie away from cup contention IMO. He is a superstar 1C. And I'd pay the man.  But what are the odds he wants to come here? This is a separate post, but while we do have some appeal, the odds are long. So ROR would be next best. Also, ROR can play either wing. One "concern" would be that Aho and Necas are both potential centers, as is Jordan, so short of a Tavares, do we really need a sort of second tier 1C? I say good problem to have. Let them switch around. Maybe Necas starts on the wing or in Charlotte, but eventually pushes ROR to the wing. Maybe eventually we trade ROR. But we are going to have high end talent in Aho, TT, Svech and Necas. We are not as desperate for it as we were before the lottery, and ROR will likely be $6 million plus per year cheaper than JT, and younger.

 

IF we could pull off ROR for say Faulk plus say Roy and our second round pick next year. We could ice this top 10:

 

Aho, Teravainen, Staal, Williams, Skinner, O'Reilly, Svechnikov, Skinner, Lindholm, Necas.  Or remove Skinner in a trade or Necas to Charlotte and still have a very good top 9.

 

I saw on another board a little more about ROR's contract.  A good chunk of it was front-loaded.  After this coming season, while his cap hit will be 7.5 million, the remaining 5 years will average out at 5 million per season, which is perfect for Carolina.  Unfortunately, I think it's going to take more than Faulk+ to acquire him.  My thinking is to offer Rask/Lindholm/Faulk/Zykov for ROR/Bogosian.  I think that balances out salaries, gives them a 3rd line center and a winger to play with Mittelstadt, and more offense on the blueline.  In addition to giving us ROR, we'd get a physical and able body in Bogosian, who has the same term on his deal as Faulk.  With Svechnikov coming on, I think it makes trading Lindholm a little more bearable.

 

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9 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

Reading that Boston is interested in Hannifin for Tory Krug, a prospect and 2nd round pick. Krug not a big guy but doesn’t let that interfere with his game and is strong on the PP. Last he also plays with heart something that’s in short supply here. Gotta give to get. 

I'd be hesitant to trade Hanifin this early in his career.  If my memory serves me correctly, the Whalers traded away a 21 year-old defensemen who was the number two overall pick in his draft year.  He's now in the Hockey Hall of Fame.  His name is Chris Pronger.

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1 hour ago, PenaltyKiller17 said:

 

I saw on another board a little more about ROR's contract.  A good chunk of it was front-loaded.  After this coming season, while his cap hit will be 7.5 million, the remaining 5 years will average out at 5 million per season, which is perfect for Carolina.  Unfortunately, I think it's going to take more than Faulk+ to acquire him.  My thinking is to offer Rask/Lindholm/Faulk/Zykov for ROR/Bogosian.  I think that balances out salaries, gives them a 3rd line center and a winger to play with Mittelstadt, and more offense on the blueline.  In addition to giving us ROR, we'd get a physical and able body in Bogosian, who has the same term on his deal as Faulk.  With Svechnikov coming on, I think it makes trading Lindholm a little more bearable.

 

Bogosian is still recovering from hip surgery.  I'm not a doctor, but like back or neck surgery, that's one that scares me.   Would need some expert medical input before I'd even consider him.   

 

I agree that it likely costs much more than Rem proposed to get ROR but I think you've got way too much going back in yours.  On another forum there was a proposal somewhat similar to yours but that had Lehner coming here and Slugs taking Darling.  Throw that into the mix and maybe swap in Gauthier or Roy for Zykov (if it looks like Bogosian will fully recover for next season), or drop that last piece (if there's doubt), and I'm on board, even if Bogosian never plays another game (not that I've heard any speculation that his injury might be that serious).   

Edited by LakeLivin

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6 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

Reading that Boston is interested in Hannifin for Tory Krug, a prospect and 2nd round pick. Krug not a big guy but doesn’t let that interfere with his game and is strong on the PP. Last he also plays with heart something that’s in short supply here. Gotta give to get. 

 

Of the moves being discussed, Hanifan is easily the most valuable trade piece we have.  If I am Dundon, I am not moving him unless we are getting serious value in return.  Sometimes fans tend to over-estimate the value of their own players in trades.  This is the one player I think we are underestimating.  We should be able to get a serious offensive skill player for Hanifan.  Not Krug and a bag of potato chips...  We do not need Krug, we need someone that can put the puck in the net.

 

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20 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

You can find Skinner's most frequent linemates by year, and his production here.  Skinner never had much going with Jordan.  He produced pretty well with Ruutu during a couple of seasons.  But looking back, Skinner never has really played with what I would consider high caliber players. 

Tuomo Ruutu...another in the list of decent players that JR signed to a bloated extension then offloaded for a

bag of pucks!  

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16 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Tuomo Ruutu...another in the list of decent players that JR signed to a bloated extension then offloaded for a

bag of pucks!  

 

That bag of pucks did include Nj third round pick. A pick we turned into Morgan Geekie. He is doing ok in juniors.

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5 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

That bag of pucks did include Nj third round pick. A pick we turned into Morgan Geekie. He is doing ok in juniors.

   This guy  simply took off in the play offs.   He is a big kid too.

 

In the 2018 WHL Playoffs, Geekie recorded 27 points (17G-10A) in 14 games.

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1 hour ago, ironman87 said:

 

Of the moves being discussed, Hanifan is easily the most valuable trade piece we have.  If I am Dundon, I am not moving him unless we are getting serious value in return.  Sometimes fans tend to over-estimate the value of their own players in trades.  This is the one player I think we are underestimating.  We should be able to get a serious offensive skill player for Hanifan.

 I tend to agree with you iron man.  There is legitimate fear that Hanifin may develop Faulk-like habits,   But this is far from certain,   Mainly because he is so much younger and so much earlier in his career.  His offensive game  is coming together and if he starts to put together the defense of side this could be a very good defenseman.   I could see trading him for a similar skilled young forward, otherwise trade Faulk.

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27 minutes ago, OBXer said:

That bag of pucks did include Nj third round pick. A pick we turned into Morgan Geekie. He is doing ok in juniors.

 

 

Geekie is intriguing, no doubt.  That said, i'd just as soon have kept Ladd in the first place, all told.

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Everything is intriguing this off-season. I have no idea what Dundon and company will do. What I'm most curious about at the moment is our goalie situation and what Cam Ward will do. You get the feeling he isn't coming back. His 500 game presentation held in a empty PNC, all the players signing his blocker after the last game, our new GM saying we can't have the same goalie combo again, it appears Darling will at least get another shot to at least earn a spot. 

 

For all I know we will sign Ward-0 the minute free agency opens but if not we now have double ?? in crease. That's alright but I'm really interested in how this plays out.

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1 hour ago, OBXer said:

 

 

For all I know we will sign Ward-0 the minute free agency opens but if not we now have double ?? in crease. That's alright but I'm really interested in how this plays out.

 

The Canes are the only team that can sign him right now if they want.  No need to wait for anything.  I think Waddell has to be trying to work a deal for a goalie, and that won't likely happen until the draft

 

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1 hour ago, super_dave_1 said:

 

The Canes are the only team that can sign him right now if they want.  No need to wait for anything.  I think Waddell has to be trying to work a deal for a goalie, and that won't likely happen until the draft

 

...or at least after the playoffs. I agree that The Committee has to be focused on goaltending. I just to hope to God they are.

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