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Trade- Lindholm and Hanifin

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Just now, Californiahurricane said:

Supposedly this occurrence was the last straw in Boston. The Boston media is suggesting he was traded to Calgary because of this. 

 

Ahhh, in Boston.  Little slow on my part connecting the dots.

 

Anyway, I'm with you.  Let's just move on from that stuff.

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6 minutes ago, Californiahurricane said:

Supposedly this occurrence was the last straw in Boston. The Boston media is suggesting he was traded to Calgary because of this. 

 

If it played out like you said, then good on Dougie for being his own man.

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13 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

My take on the recent Calgary Flames trade:

 

 

Thanks for the insight, however the way it reads it sounds like you only focused on the shortcomings of the players that Canes are receiving and the highlights of the players that the Flames are receiving.   I agree with everything you said but I would also add the following, based on watching almost every game of the new Flames players for the last 3 and 5 years respectively.

 

- Hanifan - Everything you said positively and room to grow.  Prone to head-scratcing turnovers in his own end which leads to grade-A scoring chances for the opponents.  Very soft in his own end, frequently allowing opposing forwards to out-muscle him despite his size.  Non-threatening shot which limits his PP QB effectiveness.  

 

- Lindholm - Everything you said positively.  Inexplicably disappears for long stretches on the ice.  Gets lazy in his own and at times.  OK passer, but does not have natural goal-scoring ability. Could still improve, but may be what he currently is:  A solid middle six C/RW that can kill penalties and create net-front traffic.

 

It will be interesting to see how the new players adapt to their new environments.

Edited by ironman87
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At first I was not a fan of this trade, but taking a more in depth look at it I like it. It changes our team from wait & develop to try to win now. Francis would not have done this trade...I don't like Waddell, but at least he has made a big move to change the team! 

Canes win this trade now with Hamilton, & Ferland being currently better that Hanifan, & Lindholm...as for the future too many factors to know for sure. All I know for sure is the Canes are better right now...if that means a playoff birth in the next 3 years then it will have been well worth it. 

Major factors as to who won this trade long term are: Do Hanifan, & Lindholm develop like they are suppose to? How long does Calgary keep both players? Can the Canes sign Fox, or resign Ferland / Hamilton? 

Now just go get a goalie, not named Ward, or Darling!!!

Edited by rocheccw

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From what I've read, Hamilton seems like an odd duck, that's all.  A introverted type that maybe isn't one of the guys in the locker room, likes to do his own thing, and go to museums.  Doesn't sound so bad.  Raleigh is probably a good place to be all those things.

 

edit:  One thing that really hasn't been discussed in this is the fact that the Canes probably have replacements for the lost guys in the system right now that can most likely produce similar results on the NHL ice.   

Edited by super_dave_1
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19 minutes ago, super_dave_1 said:

From what I've read, Hamilton seems like an odd duck, that's all.  A introverted type that maybe isn't one of the guys in the locker room, likes to do his own thing, and go to museums.  Doesn't sound so bad.  Raleigh is probably a good place to be all those things.

 

edit:  One thing that really hasn't been discussed in this is the fact that the Canes probably have replacements for the lost guys in the system right now that can most likely produce similar results on the NHL ice.   

   The canes now have Fox to sign in the future which is great  and if Waddell  has been through this process  before with guys who want to have a college education and still build a friendly relationship with that player and his family so that they would sign with the team one  day  then we can consider ourselves  lucky . Fox is a 3rd rounder   rated as a top 10 1st rounder .   Then you add in  Jake Bean   to the team also   that  is just adding more scoring depth at the blue line  and he will be playing with the canes pretty soon I believe .    we have Zykov who is impressive , Necas ,  and Foegele   who  showed real promise .  The canes are set to be a tough team  just one  thing .  Where is our goalie ?

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15 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Also, I'd suggest that TD has a different way of viewing the world and Phrasing it. His comment "I'd draft him , even if he was a jerk" may have lacked an emoji on it for clarification?

 

15 hours ago, Kyrule said:

 

Only he knows.

 

Oh, and it was a podcast thingy so I heard it rather than reading it.

 

Right he said it.  And I think he was fairly serious.  What I got from it is that TD won't mind if there is a little diversity of thought in the locker room.  Some guys won't want to sing Kumbuya along with everyone else, and he's OK with that.

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51 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

 

 

Right he said it.  And I think he was fairly serious.  What I got from it is that TD won't mind if there is a little diversity of thought in the locker room.  Some guys won't want to sing Kumbuya along with everyone else, and he's OK with that.

 

I was typing pretty much the same thing and deleted it because it was getting wordy.

 

Thanks for making it more to the point.

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3 hours ago, ironman87 said:

 

Thanks for the insight, however the way it reads it sounds like you only focused on the shortcomings of the players that Canes are receiving and the highlights of the players that the Flames are receiving.   I agree with everything you said but I would also add the following, based on watching almost every game of the new Flames players for the last 3 and 5 years respectively.

 

- Hanifan - Everything you said positively and room to grow.  Prone to head-scratcing turnovers in his own end which leads to grade-A scoring chances for the opponents.  Very soft in his own end, frequently allowing opposing forwards to out-muscle him despite his size.  Non-threatening shot which limits his PP QB effectiveness.  

 

- Lindholm - Everything you said positively.  Inexplicably disappears for long stretches on the ice.  Gets lazy in his own and at times.  OK passer, but does not have natural goal-scoring ability. Could still improve, but may be what he currently is:  A solid middle six C/RW that can kill penalties and create net-front traffic.

 

It will be interesting to see how the new players adapt to their new environments.

You are absolutely correct about how it reads, that's why I stated that is was my take on the trade.

My info on Hanifin and Lindholm was only gathered online, as I haven't seen them play very often.

My comments on Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox come from watching the first two for years, and following the Fox situation from Calgary.

I have to admit that I'm seeing this trade through Flame coloured glasses.

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13 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

You are absolutely correct about how it reads, that's why I stated that is was my take on the trade.

My info on Hanifin and Lindholm was only gathered online, as I haven't seen them play very often.

My comments on Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox come from watching the first two for years, and following the Fox situation from Calgary.

I have to admit that I'm seeing this trade through Flame coloured glasses.

There will be from both sides people who are happy with this trade and others not so happy with it .  That is Established .  Where it differs is  people who have seen  vs  what they  assume to know  when it comes to the talent itself .    Understanding what  trade value is to have some sort of   a understanding of potential .   There is no doubt in my mind that defense men  take longer to develop than a forward does . So when I hear fellow canes  fans  call out Hanifin  for mistake he has taken in the past but ignore all the good things he has accomplished  ,  Anyone  can see that the issue is not so much the development of that player but more to do with the immediate  results .   I have tried to explain this to some people on this  board and  they act as if Hanifin  should have been Victor Hedman or Bobby Orr already .    Calgary got themselves a great player in Hanifin  and he in the near future will be putting up better numbers by the time  he reaches  Hamiltons age now .    Treat him well .  

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On the SiriusXM call this morning, DW said he talked to Fox's adviser and was confident the Canes are a team that Fox will sign with.

 

Plenty of speculation that he will complete his junior year and sign potentially sign with a team. In the offseason he can complete his degree from Harvard.  

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4 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

On the SiriusXM call this morning, DW said he talked to Fox's adviser and was confident the Canes are a team that Fox will sign with.

 

Plenty of speculation that he will complete his junior year and sign potentially sign with a team. In the offseason he can complete his degree from Harvard.  

I figured as much .   Then this trade was a even trade .  Fox is really really good  and having a guy like him  who can skate well  and make better passes than Hanifin  re-assures  my  thoughts on the trade itself .   Man the Canes D-core  is shaping up to be one of the best in the NHL .  This is also a sign that Faulk is going to be traded which means Staal will be the Official Captain  and not some co captain . 

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Just now, gocanes0506 said:

On the SiriusXM call this morning, DW said he talked to Fox's adviser and was confident the Canes are a team that Fox will sign with.

 

Plenty of speculation that he will complete his junior year and sign potentially sign with a team. In the offseason he can complete his degree from Harvard.  

 

:crossfingers:

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43 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

There will be from both sides people who are happy with this trade and others not so happy with it .  That is Established .  Where it differs is  people who have seen  vs  what they  assume to know  when it comes to the talent itself .    Understanding what  trade value is to have some sort of   a understanding of potential .   There is no doubt in my mind that defense men  take longer to develop than a forward does . So when I hear fellow canes  fans  call out Hanifin  for mistake he has taken in the past but ignore all the good things he has accomplished  ,  Anyone  can see that the issue is not so much the development of that player but more to do with the immediate  results .   I have tried to explain this to some people on this  board and  they act as if Hanifin  should have been Victor Hedman or Bobby Orr already .    Calgary got themselves a great player in Hanifin  and he in the near future will be putting up better numbers by the time  he reaches  Hamiltons age now .    Treat him well .  

Calgary traded for Hamilton when he was very close to Hanifin's age and experience.

They both had 83 NHL points when they were traded to Calgary.

I don't doubt that the Flames know how to develop a young defence-man.

I'm confident that they will treat him well.

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5 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

Calgary traded for Hamilton when he was very close to Hanifin's age and experience.

They both had 83 NHL points when they were traded to Calgary.

I don't doubt that the Flames know how to develop a young defence-man.

I'm confident that they will treat him well.

Thats good to see .   I loved  some of the trivial things he would do that I thought were helpful to the canes and it is a shame that many people on here don't see it but  he was progressing in points  year after year  .  and when he stated out he was 18 years old .  3 years in and people  blame him for not being what they thought he would be  by ignoring the fact he is just 21 years of age  , he is still a young buck .  I have no doubt  The Flames   will develop him better than the Canes did  and maybe faster  .  It will be a culture shock  for him  when he see fans in the arena  at home games that are not the first or last games of the season .   

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1 hour ago, Canesfanforever said:

There will be from both sides people who are happy with this trade and others not so happy with it .  That is Established .  Where it differs is  people who have seen  vs  what they  assume to know  when it comes to the talent itself .    Understanding what  trade value is to have some sort of   a understanding of potential .   There is no doubt in my mind that defense men  take longer to develop than a forward does . So when I hear fellow canes  fans  call out Hanifin  for mistake he has taken in the past but ignore all the good things he has accomplished  ,  Anyone  can see that the issue is not so much the development of that player but more to do with the immediate  results .   I have tried to explain this to some people on this  board and  they act as if Hanifin  should have been Victor Hedman or Bobby Orr already .    Calgary got themselves a great player in Hanifin  and he in the near future will be putting up better numbers by the time  he reaches  Hamiltons age now .    Treat him well .  

 

You do know you can have an opinion without calling out people on the board as ignorant, or uniformed, and other such innuendoes because they have an opinion that differs from yours.  It grows old.

 

Back to Hanifin.  It's pretty clear that everyone here (well most of us anyway) have a very clear picture of what Hanifin is now as a player and how he has developed since he's played in the NHL.  Yes, he's a young D and it takes time.  It's also pretty clear that some of the other D in his draft class (e.g. Werenski, Provorov) have developed more quickly.  It's also pretty clear that the Canes brass opted to trade for a better player now, rather than sign him  to an extension based upon potential.  That's how hockey trades work sometimes.

 

What's not clear is what Hanifin will ultimately become. You don't know that, nor do any of the rest of us, nor do Calgary fans.  Nobody is arguing he doesn't have potential.  When he becomes Dougie Hamilton or better then you can opt to rub that in our faces.  Until then, not so much.  Everything is an opinion. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Fair enough, 420since1974  I think this is a fair trade for both sides, based on the relatively split comments in the media.  Seems the following takes are universal.

 

- Hamilton is the best player in the trade right now.

- Hanifan has potential to grow into an elite defenseman, but still has a ways to go

- Lindholm may greatly benefit from playing with Monahan and Gaudreau and will probably see a spike in points.

- Ferland is the most physical player in this trade, which fills a desparate need for Carolina.

- Fox is a highly-regarded offensive defenseman that Calgary has at least some doubt they could sign.

 

We are not used to big trades down here, so I for one am still digesting a bit.  When is the last player for player of this magnitude that Carolina pulled off?  I honestly do not know.  

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, ironman87 said:

When is the last player for player of this magnitude that Carolina pulled off?  I honestly do not know.  

 

Brind'Amour,  in exchange for Keith Primeau

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Cff, everyone gets that you think we are ignorant, stupid, uninformed, or spiteful regarding this trade. I am not, Hanifin could be the best Dman to have come up through the Canes organization in the last decade. The reality is that it doesn't matter, Slavin is currently better and looks to continue growing plus Fluery and Bean are both highly touted prospects with as much potential as Hanifin. We are stacked with Left D in the pipe, but the right side is weaker especially if the team wants to move Faulk. This trade gives us 2 solid Right D even if we trade Faulk and don't resign TVR. I hate losing Lindy, I liked his grit and was hoping to see him breakout. I wish them both all the luck, just not when they play us.

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9 minutes ago, ironman87 said:

When is the last player for player of this magnitude that Carolina pulled off?

 

Ozolinsh/Ritchie for Hedican/Adams/Malec?

Edited by sleekfeeder

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