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gocanes0506

Trade- Lindholm and Hanifin

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5 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

That has to be one of the most IGNORANT  statements  i have read so far.   Some players take some time to develop to become better .  with lindy i can understand why you would say that but with Hanifin ??????   Let me guess ,  You  don't put  much research into  Training and Development  do you when it comes to talent ? 

 

Insulting a fellow Canes fan is not the way to get your point across. Omit your first and last statements and you have a good question that I will try to answer. 

 

Hanifin may have a tremendous upside, but his development has been slower than expected. Yes, he's young, but he was touted as a puck-moving offensive-defenseman. Hamilton, who is just 25, scored almost as many goals last year as Hanifin has scored the last three years. Additionally, as many on this board have pointed out, Hanifin's defensive play has been rife with errors. FWIW, last year he was -20, almost as bad as Faulk's -26. Over his three-year career, he's -53. Add to all this Hanifin's reported sense of entitlement re $$$ and our need to do something now rather than continuing the "wait until the future" culture of RF. 

 

The calculus of this can be summed up in the old adage "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." 

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4 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Words are useless if there is no Actions to prove it , and last time i checked Actions speak louder than words . 

And saying the same thing two different ways is redundant. Not only that, but two different ways of saying the same thing is redundant.

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1 minute ago, AWACSooner said:

Why are we still discussing relocation?  Dundon came out and said it wasn't happening...Gary Bettman came out and said it wasn't happening.  The only ones who still are talking it are the morons in Quebec and their Canadian media puppets!

Well lets see . The Canes need to be a  playoff contending team  in order to get FANS  to come to the games .  Without FANS  coming to the games the team loses money . Tom Dundon is an Impatient  man  that wants Success NOW !  If  a team is doing things that prevent  the team to make the playoffs  that get fans that get money  then that Impatient Tom Dundon  after 7 years might want to look else where  for FANS  that would care less if the team struggles because they will go to the games REGARDLESS   , Kinda like the Jets FANS  do .   It is no secret that people in Raleigh will support  a winner  , However with that being said  we do have a ton of  Fair WEATHER Fans  that wont go  to the games if things go bad for the team .   I wish it wasnt so but it is a fact !

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16 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

That has to be one of the most IGNORANT  statements  i have read so far.   Some players take some time to develop to become better .  with lindy i can understand why you would say that but with Hanifin ??????   Let me guess ,  You  don't put  much research into  Training and Development  do you when it comes to talent ? 

How long do you give them? Guys with a lot more knowledge about training and development decided that their development was not what the Canes needed. put that along with their contract demands, and it was time for them to go.

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1 minute ago, gocanes0506 said:

I believe he just backed it up. They were playing contract hardball.  He said ‘cya’

Should send a message to future contract hardball, we'll take away the beaches and freeze your nuts off.

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Obviously I am not happy. I’ll have to change my avatar thingy.

 

Ferland is extremely physical but I think his offense came from playing with high end talent.

 

Hamilton has been traded twice already, not good for a young, talented player. He could be a real......jerk that is hard to get along with. Who knows.

 

A sad day for me, but that is a personal thing. We will see how it works out, time will definitely tell.

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Trades like this take a while to digest I think. This is not Skinner for ROR where we've been analyzing it for a while.

 

My immediate response was negative because I had a lot of hope tied up in both Hanifin and Lindholm, and the fact that both wanted more money tinged my el cheapo memories. Also, Dougie Hamilton, according to at least one guy on XM has a bit of a mildly bad reputation in the room. However, I don't think it was toxic (which Patrick O Sullivan said Hoffman was).

 

But as I've sat with this a bit, I'm really warming up to it and think that spyglass and Slapshot might be closest to correct. How long have we pined for a gritty winger who could also score and skate? A long dang time, thats how long. Looks like we got that. And Dougie Hamilton was every bit as much of the next big thing in Boston as Hanifin is here, probably bigger. I am a little nervous that two teams have bailed on him though, but still, this is a high end guy, and big.

 

I am really curious about Fox. Perhaps he just didn't want to go to Calgary. This could be an issue, but just 2 vs 2 it is not terrible.

 

Also, I do think it is highly likely that Lindholm, Hanifin, Faulk and Skinner were the 4 most likely to be the "problem kids" in terms of effort and attitude. Lindy has had that underlying issue since year one. Lindy has seriously underperformed his potential. Hanifin has started down the Faulk road of soft defense. I think both of these guys have huge upside, but I'm starting to think the issues in the salary talks might go beyond money. If they were malcontents, we will benefit from them moving on (see Colorado after Duchene left).

 

Finally, this has to seal Faulk's fate. If we move Faulk for a nice forward, then this is all looking even better.

 

We might be a touch week on the LHD now though. I'm far from sure that Bean is ready. Maybe Carriick?

 

Anyways, need to chew on this some more, but could end up being very good. We are surely suddenly much harder to play against.

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4 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Well lets see . The Canes need to be a  playoff contending team  in order to get FANS  to come to the games .  Without FANS  coming to the games the team loses money . Tom Dundon is an Impatient  man  that wants Success NOW !  If  a team is doing things that prevent  the team to make the playoffs  that get fans that get money  then that Impatient Tom Dundon  after 7 years might want to look else where  for FANS  that would care less if the team struggles because they will go to the games REGARDLESS   , Kinda like the Jets FANS  do .   It is no secret that people in Raleigh will support  a winner  , However with that being said  we do have a ton of  Fair WEATHER Fans  that wont go  to the games if things go bad for the team .   I wish it wasnt so but it is a fact !

 

You're arguing against yourself. This trade makes us better "NOW" than 4-5 years in the future. 

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15 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Words are useless if there is no Actions to prove it , and last time i checked Actions speak louder than words . 

 

 

Bingo.  That's part of why i like this deal.

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Two summers ago i posted the canes need to get more physical and suggested trade for Wilson, Lucic, Reaves, or Ferland.  Last summer i posted the same.  Three weeks ago i posted call Calgary since Peters is their coach to see if they would trade Ferland or Tkachuk since it seem to me Peters didn't care for the physical game.  Trade made and i think it is a good trade.  Kevin Weeks on NHL tonight talking about the canes a few weeks ago said the canes has great young taltented players but they do not have the physical play to be competive night in and night out.  Good trade for both sides.

Edited by playruffcaniac

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3 minutes ago, spyglass88 said:

 

You're arguing against yourself. This trade makes us better "NOW" than 4-5 years in the future. 

But what about  the season after that and after that  and so on ?  I want to be positive and think  this was a good deal . But  when you think of team needs you should address them .  The Canes need a Goalie and I believe that if there were any trade in regarding Hanifin  that it should of went towards a goalie  that we could use  and help the team  become a playoff contender .  Otherwise you pay Hanifin and watch him get better as the years go on  in his Young career .   I can name quite a few players that teams gave up on them that turned out to be stars for their new teams .  Brett Hull ,  Martin St'louis ,  Chris Pronger , Nikolai Khabibulin , william Karlsson .  The Golden knights roster  for example lol 

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16 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

 

 

A sad day for me, but that is a personal thing. We will see how it works out, time will definitely tell.

It always is when a player you like goes off to another team...or isn't re-signed...or retires.  I still miss Rosey whenever our creampuff physicality comes out game after game...just for his grittiness and no-quit attitude.

And yet here we are...Caniacs to the core. ;)

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15 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

A sad day for me, but that is a personal thing. We will see how it works out, time will definitely tell.

 

I hear ya. Lindy is going to be very good. 

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7 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

But what about  the season after that and after that  and so on ?  I want to be positive and think  this was a good deal . But  when you think of team needs you should address them .  The Canes need a Goalie and I believe that if there were any trade in regarding Hanifin  that it should of went towards a goalie  that we could use  and help the team  become a playoff contender .  Otherwise you pay Hanifin and watch him get better as the years go on  in his Young career .   I can name quite a few players that teams gave up on them that turned out to be stars for their new teams .  Brett Hull ,  Martin St'louis ,  Chris Pronger , Nikolai Khabibulin , william Karlsson .  The Golden knights roster  for example lol 

 

What goalie? What trade? You keep saying we could trade Hanifin for a goalie. Name the trade.

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I'm 100% in love with this trade.

 

I don't think this is nearly as good for Calgary as people have made it out to be.  I may be wrong, but I don't see Hanifin turning into this elite defender some think.  He's really not that assertive offensively or defensively on the ice, and hasn't shown much development since his rookie year.  Hanifin does not equate to Pronger.  Lindholm shows flashes, but disappears way too often.  I think this makes their defense suspect, and they have inconsistent goalies as well.

 

Carolina gets bigger, meaner, and tougher.  I don't think Hamilton does any damage to our locker room, and provides a solid top 4 pairing that can anchor our pp.  Our blueline got instantaneously better, and we still have Jake Bean.  Top_Shelf1, I am fully on the trade Faulk bandwagon now, as he has an actual replacement!!!  I'm interested in our next trade...... I'm going to guess Faulk for Simmonds.

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21 minutes ago, remkin said:

Also, I do think it is highly likely that Lindholm, Hanifin, Faulk and Skinner were the 4 most likely to be the "problem kids" in terms of effort and attitude. Lindy has had that underlying issue since year one. Lindy has seriously underperformed his potential. Hanifin has started down the Faulk road of soft defense. I think both of these guys have huge upside, but I'm starting to think the issues in the salary talks might go beyond money. If they were malcontents, we will benefit from them moving on (see Colorado after Duchene left).

This is why I have ZERO problems with the trade...

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3 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

 

I hear ya. Lindy is going to be very good. 

I don't believe so...he's had FIVE seasons to start to light it up...show us SOMETHING that proves we were smart to invest a first round pick on him.  I haven't seen it...as much as I wish him the best in Calgary.

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24 minutes ago, spyglass88 said:

 

What goalie? What trade? You keep saying we could trade Hanifin for a goalie. Name the trade.

Not only that, but if two players were going to shake loose any of the currently contracted #1 keepers, which two are more likely: Lindy and Hanifin or Skinner and Faulk.

 

Regardless our perception of Faulk, around the league he is a three-time All-Star with big offensive upside. Skinner is a Calder trophy winner, two of whose last three seasons were career years.

 

Just sayin': If we're getting a bonafide #1 keeper in a hockey trade, we've still got the guys who can bring him back. Meanwhile, we just got a lot more physical on both ends of the ice.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
grammar

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1 minute ago, spyglass88 said:

 

What goalie? What trade? You keep saying we could trade Hanifin for a goalie. Name the trade.

Darcy Kuemper  from the kings could have been an option  . But now we will never know . 

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5 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

I don't believe so...he's had FIVE seasons to start to light it up...show us SOMETHING that proves we were smart to invest a first round pick on him.  I haven't seen it...as much as I wish him the best in Calgary.

No, he's had three. We burned him to a crispy crunch in his first two seasons here, and shuffled him all over the ice throughout the past three. At only 23, he has seen more hockey from more perspectives on NHL ice than some guys do in their whole careers. Now he is back with the coach who helped him grow into a key player. Although I'd have preferred to do so in Raleigh, it'll be fun to watch him put it all together.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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2 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Darcy Kuemper  from the kings could have been an option  . But now we will never know . 

We still have guys to trade.

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5 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

I don't believe so...he's had FIVE seasons to start to light it up...show us SOMETHING that proves we were smart to invest a first round pick on him.  I haven't seen it...as much as I wish him the best in Calgary.

Wonder how he feels being back with BP?

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