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Trade- Jeff Skinner to Buffalo

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12 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

Nice summary of your value to the boards from your short time here, imo.  But, we are kinda used to ignoring you so there is that.

 

 

Yeah, there's an app button for that.

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I suspect Skins is motivated and happy to move on from what has been years of failure from Canes mgmt to ice a competitive team; pre-season hype to dull thud year after year. No reason for him to think this year would be any different with yet another 4-6 new faces in the line up and highly questionable goaltending. It’s pretty clear he wasn’t going to resign here so Canes got what they could for a guy with 1 yr left on his contract. IMO I think he’s in Buf for one year, plays lights out and signs a big contract with a bona fide contender. Canes mis-played this great pick by never improving. 

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12 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

It's also entertaining to read over at least the last 5 months since Dundon took over that we needed a change and when the bandaid is finally completely ripped off, well, we are here aren't we?

 

YEP!

 

There's an age old saying about this behavior.

 

"Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it."

Edited by wxray1
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You can say what you want about Dundon, but things have surely changed around here.  Now if we changed for better or worse is a separate question that will play itself out on the ice.  Dundon, Waddell, and RB have done exactly what they said they would do at the beginning and I like it overall.  I do not agree with all of the moves they have made.  But I also don't have the information they do. Therefore, I am willing to defer to them and trust that Waddell and RB know more about the locker room and the product we will put on the ice this fall better than I do.  

 

After 9 years, we have finally done something to truly shake things up.  I am looking forward to this year to see how everything plays out.

 

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On 8/3/2018 at 4:57 PM, top-shelf-1 said:

All great points, but I'm afraid I can no longer grace your posts with "thumbs ups," given that you're a Pens fan.

Fair enough! LOL!  Pens fan since 1981, Canes fan since 1997...always hope that these two teams will meet in the ECF every year so I'll have at least one team in the SCF. So far only 2009 worked out that way. 

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On 8/4/2018 at 6:33 PM, bluedevil58 said:

Watch him score 40 g over there.  Then we all rage out.  Still a foolish trade.  Not really my opinion.  Because it's a fact.

He may score 40 g, but that does not translate into wins, especially if his +/- trend does not change.  Scoring 40 and being on the ice for 60-70 against is one of the reasons he is not here anymore.

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43 minutes ago, rocheccw said:

Fair enough! LOL!  Pens fan since 1981, Canes fan since 1997...always hope that these two teams will meet in the ECF every year so I'll have at least one team in the SCF. So far only 2009 worked out that way. 

Well, I'm a (former) longtime fan of your cross-state rivals. They lost me before I ever moved south, thanks to Bobby Clarke's GM-ship. Great (though dirty) player. Conniving weasel of a GM.

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11 minutes ago, bambamcanefan said:

Scoring 40 and being on the ice for 60-70 against is one of the reasons he is not here anymore.

Brindy!? You post here?? Who knew!

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This is getting far afield from the Skinner trade, but I just read the NHL.com write up on the Canes. Under the “Three Questions” section, the last question was whether management by committee could work. They pointed out the only other time it was tried was by the Islanders in 2006. They fired their GM and 2nd in command 6 weeks into the season. I’m not saying it can’t work here, but there is the historical precedent. We’ll have to wait and see the results on the ice, but that was kind of sobering.

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I do not remember if the Islanders did this, but Dundon has completely shaken up the decision makers at the table. I think doing this increases his chance at success at this consensus approach.  To be honest, I like the fact we are doing something different that is rocking the boat a little in hockey circles.  It will be mocked and ridiculed if we don't win, but if we do, the mocking will subside (for the most part, there are always trolls)...   

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If we win, then Dundon will be hailed as a genius for thinking outside the box. I have no recollection of what the Islanders did in 2006, I just read on NHL.com that it was a total failure. That doesn’t mean with different personalities in our management and different players, the Islanders result will be repeated here. I want the Canes to win, so I’m all in unless/until the team falters. Lots of new faces on the ice and on the bench. They deserve the benefit of the doubt until games are played.

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8 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

If we win, then Dundon will be hailed as a genius for thinking outside the box. I have no recollection of what the Islanders did in 2006, I just read on NHL.com that it was a total failure. That doesn’t mean with different personalities in our management and different players, the Islanders result will be repeated here. I want the Canes to win, so I’m all in unless/until the team falters. Lots of new faces on the ice and on the bench. They deserve the benefit of the doubt until games are played.

 

There were other factors.  Buffalo was on a high, having just missed playing for the cup.  (In your face, Buffalo fans... Just kidding... Kind of.)  The biggest factor was Wang.  Wang had his hands full with dealing with a broken arena and ideas to rebuild that were not meshing well with the community.  This is a long way off from a year delay in a mega-scoreboard dispute.  Wang also was obsessed with long term contracts, and if you believe Milbury, this was the downfall.  TD is apparently of just the opposite ilk on contracts.   The other difference is the Smith was likely not given the full story of just how much he was going to be of part of this change in management style.  Waddell apparently knows full well.

 

Of course, there are similarities too... Outsider making it big in a different industry wanting to have a large say in the team.

 

Get back to me on this 6 weeks into the season when the Canes are once again on the losing side of things and we'll see what happens then.  :(

Edited by wxray1
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21 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

Get back to me on this 6 weeks into the season when the Canes are once again on the losing side of things and we'll see what happens then. 

Lovely Sentiment. Lets just cancel the season shall we?.

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1 hour ago, cc said:

Lovely Sentiment. Lets just cancel the season shall we?.

 

Crossing the <sarchasm> divide.  I guess ya'll should take away my comic imitator license card. 

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Talk about late to the party. I've been away for a while, but feel the need to lay down something on this, since it is pretty big. I've read through all 12 pages and lots of good takes in there, some of which I will undoubtably repeat. There are a lot of thoughts I agree with, maybe a slightly different angle, maybe not. This is a bit long, hey haven't posted in over two weeks!

 

I have posited that this team does not need to lose scoring and that this team does not need more non first round picks and B or lower prospects and I still believe it. If that were the whole story, this would probably be a pretty bad trade. We need proven scoring, we have scads of nice prospects, sort of the opposite of this trade. Staying on the return theme, IMO a full year Jeff Skinner should have returned more, even if he is just a rental. Some guys get a first back as a deadline rental. This means to me (and others have posted the idea too):

 

1. Skinner had to have blocked some locations. (Sure technically he didn't veto any trades, but probably refused to go to certain teams). Why? Unless suddenly the plus-minus is a much more respected stat than most of us think, a potential 40 goal scorer simply has to at least bring back a first rounder even for one year.

 

2. This was a lot about addition by subtraction. Waddell and undoubtably Brindy and perhaps others, got it into Dundon's head that Skinner did not fit the prototype of what they were trying to build, and basically had to go. GM remkin would have thought Faulk would be the more urgent move, but apparently the brass felt a huge urge to move Skinner (given what they settled for). Could be that the Faulk return is even worse, though to hear the experts, Faulk should bring more, and yet Faulk remains.

 

It does feel a bit rushed though, which may have lowered the return. I have to think at least this or better return could have been had later. They clearly wanted to send a message that lack of effort or two way play will not be tolerated and to not have this issue hanging over camp. They wanted Skinner gone and now. Best offer, final sale.

 

It's simply too far off to know how the picks will pan out, so the early returns will depend on how good Cliff Pu can be. I did read that his draft year he was buried on a stud team and did not get ice time. He then had two strong productive junior seasons post draft with ice time. Post draft year point bumps are harder to use as predictors, but his scouting report offers a lot of upside. He is listed as both fast top end speed and a quick first step, which could go nicely on a team increasingly built to fly, ie with Necas.

 

I really wish we had gotten a first rounder, but both Pu and what happens with the picks will make the direct trade hard to judge for a few years anyway, so this year will come down to wether the "addition by subtraction" thing works, and how much our yutes can step up. I think our yutes will surprise, but filling Skinner's goals is not going to be as easy as Waddell seemed to imply. 

 

I can't help but strongly feel like the moves to this point really only make sense if that final target is hit: Faulk for a proven forward. It's so obvious it hurts, and moving Skinner out for no help this year screams for it. Package Faulk and picks and prospects if needed, but get Pacioretty or Saad, or Schmaltz, or someone, and whole thing (all of the moves this offseason) looks genius. Don't and, well as in many years past, a lot of hope has to factor in. Given our goalies, this just does not seem wise. Right now my hope is that we are not done. I've hoped that a lot in the past, but we've in fact been done nearly every time. This year has been quite different, so maybe we make that last key move and bring it home.

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11 hours ago, wxray1 said:

 

Crossing the <sarchasm> divide.  I guess ya'll should take away my comic imitator license card. 

 

Are you a crazy man?  Nobody should have their humor card revoked if they have any kind of humor and use it.

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35 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

Skinner Trade the Right Move by the Hurricanes from Dan Rosen.

Good piece, but it makes my point: This deal - for a prospect and picks - would have been there in September. Why not wait those few weeks to see if a need developed on another team that was critical enough to get us a first-rounder coming back?  

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31 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Good piece, but it makes my point: This deal - for a prospect and picks - would have been there in September. Why not wait those few weeks to see if a need developed on another team that was critical enough to get us a first-rounder coming back?  

 

I don't see how it makes your point at all.  Actually, the entire theme of the article is the opposite of your point. 

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2 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

I don't see how it makes your point at all.  Actually, the entire theme of the article is the opposite of your point. 

Okaaaaayyyyyy.

 

My only complaint with the move is the return. I may not agree with the Committee's conclusion about Skinner more broadly, but I've been very consistent about saying the new management approach of deciding to make wholesale changes and following through beats the heck out of the old one.

 

To the return, my last post speaks to my problem with it. I won't insult your intelligence and re-state it here.

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3 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

Good thing TS isn’t a medical examiner or this would get out of control quicker than Wiz lasting 35 seconds as a Cane. 

Amen

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Let's see: 3 first round picks out the door; not investing heavily in the front office and coaching.  Are we witness to the hockey version of "Major League" ? Houston is a lot closer to Dallas than Raleigh. The good news is that in the film, the Indians came though and spoiled the owners diabolical plans; attendance increased, lots of excitement in Cleveland. Maybe Scott Darling becomes our Ricky "Wild Thing" Vaughn; the Canes make the playoffs, attendance increases, lots of excitement in town!!!

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