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Trade- Jeff Skinner to Buffalo

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9 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

Judging by what they got Canes didn’t seem too interested in That part of the equation which is odd. Getting unproven prospects for a proven top 6 winger who will be good for 35/35 goals doesn’t make Canes mgmt look to swift. Meantime win or lose Jeff skates in front of a sellout crowd every home game. 

Yeah, this. Everybody here is routinely worried about getting a return for a player on an expiring contract. Here we have a former ROTY with two consecutive career years in the last three, who would have brought back more nearer the start of the season (if the org was so hell-bent on unloading him before puck drop) or nearer the deadline. But somebody (whose last name has an apostrophe in it) was apparently so intent on unloading him that return was meaningless. That is at best organizationally stupid and at worst a vindictive slap in the face of a (supposedly) "soft" player who put up his best numbers after suffering three concussions, and people are wringing their hands about perhaps not getting a return for a (supposedly) big tough dman who has only figured out how to play the game at this level for what amounts, in the scheme of things, to about 15 or 20 minutes. 

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I like the moves made for the most part, but to me there are three questionable moves made or not made that only time will tell the wisdom of. (Of course this is true of all of the moves, but I'm referring to my opinion of the questionable ones). I know some just don't like anything buy positivity, but I am not overall pessimistic about this year despite these questionable moves. I think Rod hit it on the nail when he said we will either be surprisingly good, or pretty bad, no mushy middle. I can see how this could all come together, but these moves are not as strong as the big trade (Hamilton/Ferland/Fox) or signing DeHaan, moves which I think were strong moves.

 

1. Goalie. This is, of course the huge roll of the dice. Can we rehabilitate two of the worst goalies in last year's NHL? As nearly every year in recent memory, goalie has been at the forefront of our needs. Arguably Francis' inability to crack this nut is part of him not being GM. Our answer was to bet on the worst goalie in the league and the 7th worst. Darling and Mrazek combined for .895 save percentage last year. At best this is a risky move. It seems to be the best we could do, but still, it is worth some apprehension.

 

Despite those staggeringly bad stats, I have come to buy in to the required theme to stay positive: 2 guys against the world, fighting to prove themselves, training hard in the offseason, these guys will get back to past performances and surprise the hockey world. It could happen. 

 

2. Skinner. I agree with Top on part of this. The decision was in. Skinner had to go, and the committee decided to take the best offer on the table at the moment. A 35 goal scorer available for the entire year and playoffs should bring more than a B level prospect and non first round picks. I don't buy the Tavares argument. That was letting a superstar go all the way to the wire and losing him. Could we not have waited a bit longer and at least gotten a first round pick? I think so. It seems highly likely that Brind'Amour and the Committee did not want Skinner in camp. The price for that was low return. (I just read a piece out of Buffalo about how their GM said he was looking for a team desperate to move a guy that he could get cheap. He pulled it off). Cliff Pu may be great, or that second rounder might or might be part of a trade for a good player, but for now we've lost a 35 goal scorer and replaced him with nothing (this year). 

 

3. Faulk. I'm not in the room. I don't know what the effect is of your co captain being a defensive sieve. Apparently its not as bad as having your only pure goal scorer not play defense. But from my desk, Faulk is the guy who should have been moved for the best available offer. Faulk's been on the market (according to rumor) for a long time. We should know the market. If we're not getting the offers we want, maybe GM's look at a -109 and it actually affects the return. This is the move that makes the Skinner for zip this year sting less. This is the move that makes it come full circle. If this move happens, I can live with the Skinner trade (since we'll replace some of the loss offensively) and this one also goes away (since it happened), and goalie only remains as the big "if". Thus, for me this is the lynch pin move. I'm waiting....

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DW said that he spoke with every team about Skinner. Unfortunately, because of the NTC, Skinner held most of the cards. Don't underestimate the importance of his expiring contract either. Not likely that any team would trade a good top six forward with term for what could amount to a one season rental. Perhaps, we could have struck a deal for an NHL'er with an expiring contract; but Skinner had to agree to that move. And, it's possible that the other teams player that we were interested in also had a NTC, and maybe he wasn't interested in coming here. Those factors limited our options to probably a very few teams, and waiting may or may not have changed that dynamic. At face value, it appears that we gave Skinner away, but there couldn't have been a better deal out there, because we took Buffalo's offer. Yes, it would have been great to get a first round pick for him; but obviously that wasn't going to happen. Imagine the howling on these boards if we gave away a first round pick for a rental (even a good player). That's from JR's playbook, and their prospects are rated last in the league. 

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3 hours ago, AssistantGM said:

DW said that he spoke with every team about Skinner. Unfortunately, because of the NTC, Skinner held most of the cards. Don't underestimate the importance of his expiring contract either. Not likely that any team would trade a good top six forward with term for what could amount to a one season rental. Perhaps, we could have struck a deal for an NHL'er with an expiring contract; but Skinner had to agree to that move. And, it's possible that the other teams player that we were interested in also had a NTC, and maybe he wasn't interested in coming here. Those factors limited our options to probably a very few teams, and waiting may or may not have changed that dynamic. At face value, it appears that we gave Skinner away, but there couldn't have been a better deal out there, because we took Buffalo's offer. Yes, it would have been great to get a first round pick for him; but obviously that wasn't going to happen. Imagine the howling on these boards if we gave away a first round pick for a rental (even a good player). That's from JR's playbook, and their prospects are rated last in the league. 

A very well worked out summation to this simmering issue. Now I know there are several who believe that waiting could have increased Skinner's value, and that is possible, but I've pointed out that could also increase the resentment in the room and led to some fragmentation of players, particularly younger more impressionable ones, with the move. For all concerned, if Skinner was viewed as a square peg in a round hole, that best to "cut bait than fish".

Edited by KJUNKANE

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12 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

A very well worked out summation to this simmering issue. Now I know there are several who believe that waiting could have increased Skinner's value, and that is possible, but I've pointed out that could also increase the resentment in the room and led to some fragmentation of players, particularly younger more impressionable ones, with the move. For all concerned, if Skinner was viewed as a square peg in a round hole, that best to "cut bait than fish".

 

This trade will be the talk of the town the first few minutes of camp.  Then it will be all business, especially once Roddy gets the floor.  They won't have time to think about it.

 

If Skins stayed, it would be the talk of the town perpetually, especially after what The Ambassador said publicly.  Roddy may distract for a while, but The Problem is there to remind you constantly.

 

That said... There is The Problem #2 over there in the goal crease.  Dear hockey gods, please give Darlings SOMETHING this year.

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23 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

But somebody (whose last name has an apostrophe in it) was apparently so intent on unloading him that return was meaningless. That is at best organizationally stupid and at worst a vindictive slap in the face of a (supposedly) "soft" player who put up his best numbers after suffering three concussions, and people are wringing their hands about perhaps not getting a return for a (supposedly) big tough dman who has only figured out how to play the game at this level for what amounts, in the scheme of things, to about 15 or 20 minutes. 

I think it is quite clear you think Dundon and Rod are idiots.(as it applies to this action).  It might be more efficient to just say this.  But that just my opinion.

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2 hours ago, wxray1 said:

 

This trade will be the talk of the town the first few minutes of camp.  Then it will be all business, especially once Roddy gets the floor.  They won't have time to think about it.

 

If Skins stayed, it would be the talk of the town perpetually, especially after what The Ambassador said publicly.  Roddy may distract for a while, but The Problem is there to remind you constantly.

 

That said... There is The Problem #2 over there in the goal crease.  Dear hockey gods, please give Darlings SOMETHING this year.

That paraphrases my thoughts wxray, which are better to have the talk now, when the guys are literally scattered about to their summer retreats, than as a distraction for however long getting Jeff's value in a trade, with that black cloud or elephant constantly in the room, would have taken. I would also add that with a room in approximately 50 percent turnover, and with several YOUNG, IMPRESSIONABLE "kids" in the group, for the sake of critical unity, it needed to be done when it was, if it was inevitable, no matter how the trade appeared to be lopsided?

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1 hour ago, KJUNKANE said:

That paraphrases my thoughts wxray, which are better to have the talk now, when the guys are literally scattered about to their summer retreats, than as a distraction for however long getting Jeff's value in a trade, with that black cloud or elephant constantly in the room, would have taken. I would also add that with a room in approximately 50 percent turnover, and with several YOUNG, IMPRESSIONABLE "kids" in the group, for the sake of critical unity, it needed to be done when it was, if it was inevitable, no matter how the trade appeared to be lopsided?

 

Yes.  I am getting ready to leave my job and we have a lot of young new guys.  I am trying not to infect them with "reality" as I see it.  Better for them to just think everything is great.  Who knows, maybe it will be after I leave?  :)   It would do no good for me to put my black cloud into effect for them.

 

Now, will I be able to afford hockey tickets after being retired?  That's the question...

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16 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

 

Yes.  I am getting ready to leave my job and we have a lot of young new guys.  I am trying not to infect them with "reality" as I see it.  Better for them to just think everything is great.  Who knows, maybe it will be after I leave?  :)   It would do no good for me to put my black cloud into effect for them.

 

Now, will I be able to afford hockey tickets after being retired?  That's the question...

Sit up with us in the 326 section. It's cheaper and besides we need insulation from other team's "undesirables".

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1 minute ago, KJUNKANE said:

Sit up with us in the 326 section. It's cheaper and besides we need insulation from other team's "undesirables".

 

326?  That's luxury!  We're in 322, opposing side shoots twice.  We're down in the trenches fighting undesirables every night.  :)

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3 hours ago, cc said:

I think it is quite clear you think Dundon and Rod are idiots.(as it applies to this action).  It might be more efficient to just say this.  But that just my opinion.

You're almost right. I don't think they are idiots. I think the timing of this move was idiocy.

 

But I don't see what concern my efficiency or lack of it is to you. If you don't like reading me, just don't read me. 

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