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SuckaPunchd

2018/19 Training Camp & Preseason

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5 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

I'm interested to see which rookie cracks the AHL lineup of Helvig/Booth. But I thought we signed an AHL only goalie but now that I'm searching can't find it. I'd much rather a kid standing next to Ned's.

 

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3 hours ago, OBXer said:

 

 

That move confused me, especially since he apparently wasn't good enough to be an AHL regular last year.  I would have understood signing a proven AHL goalie like John Muse, but Phillips?  Maybe the scouts see something that justifies buying another raffle ticket?  Because his numbers certainly don't point in that direction.

Edited by LakeLivin

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Our keeper corps is maturing and getting younger at the same time. Ned's the top prospect. Neither Helvig nor Booth have enough time at the AHL level yet to get a whiff of an NHL roster. We've released Smith (who is 29) and he's now with Bridgeport, while the guy we got for the #2 slot in the ECHL last year (Martin Ouellette) killed it and just signed an AHL deal with Syracuse. Kinda surprised we let him go, he had a 2.02/.921 in the regular season, and won 14, lost 3, and lost 2 in OT in the playoffs. But he's over 25, which none of the four keeper prospects now in the system are. Unless both Darling and Mrazek stink up camp, I'm guessing they want to see Ned really settle in with the Chex and take them deeper into the playoffs, with Phillips backing him up. Helvig and Booth are the likely tandem in FL next season.

  

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The guy I want to see in camp is Saku Maenalanen. I think he has the game that RB likes,The kid loves to float around the crease and we all know that we can used some of that. He could be this years sleeper to make a drive for a roster spot.  

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1 hour ago, slapshot02 said:

The guy I want to see in camp is Saku Maenalanen. I think he has the game that RB likes,The kid loves to float around the crease and we all know that we can used some of that. He could be this years sleeper to make a drive for a roster spot.  

Agreed. I seriously doubt we'd have used this contract slot if Aho and TT didn't believe there is chemistry there that can work at NHL speed, and with Joni working for us, I have to think it was what prompted the signing. If that's true, Zeke, Svech, Jordan becomes a scary second line, and one on which Zeke will have to up his D side if he wants to stick. Then put Rask between Necas and Willy, so you can ease Necas into the center role, when Rask isn't on his dominant side.  

 

Pretty good looking top nine right there.

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A bit more on Mäenalanen. He was junior teammates in the Finnish junior league with our own Sebastian Aho. He was originally drafted by Nashville and went unsigned, leading to him staying in Finland. He won Gold with Finland at the WJC in 2014, finishing with 7g and 11pts in 7gp. He may be 24 years old, but he’s played five seasons against men in Finland’s Liiga for Kärpät beginning in 2013/14. While he didn’t score much his first couple years, he began to noticeably improve in years 3, 4, and 5, going from 16 points in 46 games in 15/16, to 11g and 21 points in just 34 games in 16/17, to his breakout last season scoring 17g, 46 points in 59 games.

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First, thanks for the info on Maelnalanen. Second, these projections I'm about to quote are ball park based on lots of players all thrown together into one stew, there are outliers both ways. Third, given the second point, this is for entertainment purposes only, I have to think if our scouts or Joni saw something, that has to factor in. I'm not predicting anything.

 

As has been quoted here before, Rob Vollman of Hockey Abstract created his "translation factors" to try to predict NHL scoring potential based on scoring in multiple other leagues (KHL, College, the major junior leagues, etc). The "translation factor" for SM-Liiga is 0.43.  If we take Maelnalanen's bust out year, project it over 80 games and apply the conversion, he'd be predicted to score 11 goals and 27 points in the NHL if he plays the whole season. Brock McGinn actually put up 16G and 30P last year. 

 

Don't get me wrong though. Maelnanen is 6'3" and if he is physical he has a chance based on that. Also the translations are just the averages, and this guy might exceed that. But then again, we are using his breakout year which may be overly generous. My guess is that he will have to really impress in camp to get a spot out of camp, but he has that chance, and can also add depth.

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Thanks everyone for the info on the new Finn, and honestly I had forgotten all about that signing.  I looked it up and his entry level deal is the max. They must see something.  If it's Joni pulling the strings on this guy he has a pretty damn good track record.  Have the Canes ever given an ELC to a 24-year old.?  Maybe, but nothing rings a bell.

 

Looking forward to getting a look at Mel.  Spelling or anything else is too hard.

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13 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

Thanks everyone for the info on the new Finn, and honestly I had forgotten all about that signing.  I looked it up and his entry level deal is the max. They must see something.  If it's Joni pulling the strings on this guy he has a pretty damn good track record.  Have the Canes ever given an ELC to a 24-year old.?  Maybe, but nothing rings a bell.

 

Looking forward to getting a look at Mel.  Spelling or anything else is too hard.

I think what they see is a guy with speed and size and loves going to the net. I think RB will love seeing this guy living in the crease.

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I don't see Mäenalanen as a game-changer, however if his signing came from recommendations (i don't know if it was) from Aho and/or Teravainen, then it's at the very least worth giving him a strong look for a couple weeks at camp.  I won't point to him as being the team's savior this season, but i certainly wouldn't dismiss him out of hand either.

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8 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

I don't see Mäenalanen as a game-changer, however if his signing came from recommendations (i don't know if it was) from Aho and/or Teravainen, then it's at the very least worth giving him a strong look for a couple weeks at camp.  I won't point to him as being the team's savior this season, but i certainly wouldn't dismiss him out of hand either.

Whether Joni influenced it or not, what struck me about it was how soon after the Worlds it happened. They played together that whole tournament I believe (somebody check me on that), so somebody clearly saw something they liked.

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19 hours ago, SuckaPunchd said:

he began to noticeably improve in years 3, 4, and 5, going from 16 points in 46 games in 15/16, to 11g and 21 points in just 34 games in 16/17, to his breakout last season scoring 17g, 46 points in 59 games.

Changing it up a bit, this encapsulates for me the case for having patience with any player who has never played with men and is earnestly trying to improve at this level. (Rask soapbox climbing in 3... 2...)

 

When you subtract out the last two-plus injury-plagued years for Victor and look at where he was skills-wise before getting hurt in the middle of the '15-16 season, THEN consider that he was, at the time, in only his second full season of playing with men, this would be the year where I'd expect him to make his move. And I think Maenalanen's development shows why only rare talents (like hopefully Svech proves to be) can make an impact in the NHL straight out of Canadian Juniors, which just can't hold a candle to either the AHL or elite European mens' leagues in terms of getting guys NHL-ready.

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You'd think after years of following this stuff I'd know this, but how many trades tend to happen in the weeks leading up to and during training camp? I know there are some, but not many I think?

 

If so, we are going to have the plus of an insanely deep D core, and the minus of too many NHL guys if we are free of injuries. I don't think we go with 7 D very often, so how does this all shake out with Faulk? I suspect a lot of people will think this is a good problem to have, but I'm not so sure. There will be tremendous pressure to play Faulk more than might be ideal. Having Hamilton and Faulk lead the two PP units makes sense to me, but outside of that? 

 

I'm guessing stripping Faulk of the "C" is a given since Brind'Amour has said there will be one C. It seems most likely given how much Williams seems to be getting pushed up front (media, talking to the kids at prospect camp, etc) while Faulk and Staal are nowhere to be seen until just now, that Williams would be getting the "C". To me this is even more likely with Faulk here (if Faulk left, then the C could stay with Staal without singling Faulk out). So Faulk will be stripped of the C and likely pushed into protected D situations, O zone starts and PP time. This could work out for Faulk and his numbers, but will it stick? Will he actually play bottom pair or even sit?

 

I see two immediate downsides as to how it actually plays out. First, Faulk's D lapses with shaky goalies, and second, who gets pushed to the bench? Personally I let TVR and Faulk mainly platoon and keep Fleury mostly playing. This keeps our #7 overall pick on his development trajectory and keeps people on their natural sides. 

 

But clearly the pluses of trading Faulk seem to outweigh the minuses, IMO, and hopefully this still happens sooner than later.

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On 8/29/2018 at 2:36 PM, remkin said:

You'd think after years of following this stuff I'd know this, but how many trades tend to happen in the weeks leading up to and during training camp? I know there are some, but not many I think?

 

If so, we are going to have the plus of an insanely deep D core, and the minus of too many NHL guys if we are free of injuries. I don't think we go with 7 D very often, so how does this all shake out with Faulk? I suspect a lot of people will think this is a good problem to have, but I'm not so sure. There will be tremendous pressure to play Faulk more than might be ideal. Having Hamilton and Faulk lead the two PP units makes sense to me, but outside of that? 

 

I'm guessing stripping Faulk of the "C" is a given since Brind'Amour has said there will be one C. It seems most likely given how much Williams seems to be getting pushed up front (media, talking to the kids at prospect camp, etc) while Faulk and Staal are nowhere to be seen until just now, that Williams would be getting the "C". To me this is even more likely with Faulk here (if Faulk left, then the C could stay with Staal without singling Faulk out). So Faulk will be stripped of the C and likely pushed into protected D situations, O zone starts and PP time. This could work out for Faulk and his numbers, but will it stick? Will he actually play bottom pair or even sit?

 

I see two immediate downsides as to how it actually plays out. First, Faulk's D lapses with shaky goalies, and second, who gets pushed to the bench? Personally I let TVR and Faulk mainly platoon and keep Fleury mostly playing. This keeps our #7 overall pick on his development trajectory and keeps people on their natural sides. 

 

But clearly the pluses of trading Faulk seem to outweigh the minuses, IMO, and hopefully this still happens sooner than later.

Late response, Rem, but here goes. I know nobody values his opinion, but buried in one of Ek’s recent posts was one sentence saying it appeared Faulk would stay with the Canes for now because the team was not happy with the offers it received. It creates a logjam for now, but I see him playing his offside and 2nd PP QB until injuries or poor performances somewhere else increase the market for him. If we have no injuries, Fleury could start in Charlotte, I think. I’d be surprised if Faulk isn’t traded by the deadline, or heck, maybe even before the season starts if some team doesn’t like what they see in camp. I wonder if the summer-long debacle in Ottawa trying to trade Karlsson might have held back interest in Faulk.

 

Last thing, I have 2 contradictory thoughts. On the one hand, Faulk isn’t just creating a glut in Raleigh. We have prospects backed up in Charlotte, plus the hope of signing Fox. On the other hand, having Faulk around might be a big plus if one of our D pulls a Wisnewski and is lost for the season after one shift. Looking at the return we took for Skinner, it’s pretty obvious management did not want him back under any circumstances. Holding onto Faulk this long makes me think at least he is viewed as a good locker room guy. I’m sure he has already been told if he will get a letter, and the team was okay with his response. 

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3 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

Late response, Rem, but here goes. I know nobody values his opinion, but buried in one of Ek’s recent posts was one sentence saying it appeared Faulk would stay with the Canes for now because the team was not happy with the offers it received. It creates a logjam for now, but I see him playing his offside and 2nd PP QB until injuries or poor performances somewhere else increase the market for him. If we have no injuries, Fleury could start in Charlotte, I think. I’d be surprised if Faulk isn’t traded by the deadline, or heck, maybe even before the season starts if some team doesn’t like what they see in camp. I wonder if the summer-long debacle in Ottawa trying to trade Karlsson might have held back interest in Faulk.

 

Last thing, I have 2 contradictory thoughts. On the one hand, Faulk isn’t just creating a glut in Raleigh. We have prospects backed up in Charlotte, plus the hope of signing Fox. On the other hand, having Faulk around might be a big plus if one of our D pulls a Wisnewski and is lost for the season after one shift. Looking at the return we took for Skinner, it’s pretty obvious management did not want him back under any circumstances. Holding onto Faulk this long makes me think at least he is viewed as a good locker room guy. I’m sure he has already been told if he will get a letter, and the team was okay with his response. 

Thanks BDC. Appreciate the response, well thought. Ottawa is an interesting thought, especially if they hadn't traded their #1 pick to Colorado. As an aside Colorado is sitting in the catbird seat (whatever that is) with Ottawa's first round pick. I am seriously jealous of Colorado there. They have a serous shot at Jack Hughes and don't even have to tank to get it. But I digress.

 

Even though "it is Ek" as we say, it is interesting to here what I have suspected, and posted, that our brass is holding out on the return for Faulk (in a way they did not for Skinner). I agree that it gives us a huge insurance policy against injuries, but man I do wonder what return they have turned down. If it is of the Cliff Pu and non first round variety, then I applaud them, but I do hope they are not overvaluing the market on Faulk. 

 

My main issue and the main badness of this thing is if Hayden Fleury gets sent down for any serious period of time. This is the second D man taken in his draft, and a guy who overall had a pretty solid rookie NHL season. I guess going down for a while and working on some offensive game would not kill things, but ultimately in my book, he needs to be up here learning the NHL game. 

 

I know there are lots of rightful detractors of the +/- stat, but I just can't get past the fact that when Faulk has been on the ice 5/5 the opposition has scored 109 more goals than we have during that time, while for Hayden Fleury its been 2 more goals.  

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15 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

It creates a logjam for now, but I see him playing his offside

 

I think we can all agree that if Faulk stays it creates a log jam. Some teams would look at this as a plus but it can be a problem. Of course if Faulk stays one of the more intriguing aspects of this years training camp will be where he is slotted. I doubt he moves to his off-side. If his major problem is defensive lapses than moving  him offside gives him one more thing to have to think about. Instead I suspect that we look for a partner than can be responsible and enhance Faulks talents. Both Pesce and TVR  have and can skate off-side. Fluery is also an option.

12 hours ago, remkin said:

My main issue and the main badness of this thing is if Hayden Fleury gets sent down for any serious period of time.

 

I think it is only an issue if you send him down to bury him. If you send him down to polish his game and as a short term roster move until you work out a trade I think a little time in the A might help him. Last season he was a minus player with 8 assists on the big ice. At the end of the season when he was sent to Charlotte he was a plus player scoring 1 goal and 1 assist in 3 games and adding another 2 goals and 2 assist in the playoffs. That is what we should expect of Fluery, a responsible D-man that can score. I would rather have him in the A than sitting in the press box. I won't be surprised if he beats his competition out and sticks with the big club but won;t be surprised if he is sent to Charlotte to gain more confidence.

 

That we are still talking about Faulk is a reason to trade him before he becomes a distraction. The bigger question though is what kind of system will Brindy employ. I suspect but certainly don't know that it will be more a possession/transition/always look to score system than the defensive first and always system we have seen over the past several seasons. That isn't to say the defensive game will be forgotten but the focus will be on always moving the puck forward. If that is the case Faulk would fit the system.

 

I don't know if any of this is true. I'm just spit balling. That is why this seasons training camp is so interesting for me..

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Good points OBXer. 

 

I have softened a bit on Fleury to the AHL for "some" time, and agree that he needs to find some offense and a couple of short stints in Charlotte could help that. But Fleury is not Hanifin. Fleury took more time in Junior and a full AHL season. Overall, he was solid in the NHL, and IMO he needs to see NHL ice more often than AHL ice. 

 

Faulk. It's really a shame that Faulk has been so unable to shore up his defensive game, because I think he can be better at it. I also think Faulk is very good transitionally with the puck, and of course can score PP goals. But Faulk on his off-side scares the living mess out of me. Maybe he would paradoxically benefit by having to think the game different, but there's not a lot of room to slide on the D side of his game if it goes the other way. 

 

I DO think this could become a distraction though. He will be stripped of the C, and probably have his role and ice time cut (if he doesn't, then he's out there making "minuses" unless his game magically improves). So he's stripped of the C and playing less while we're hoping his value goes up. Then he bumps Fleury to the AHL while trade speculation is never ending. Eventually Joe Sakic got what he wanted for Duchene, but not before an entire season went down the tubes. 

 

I like a lot of what has been done with this team, but the Skinner - Faulk axis and how that works out, is pretty shaky so far. If some team has an injury (why isn't Edmonton calling?) or something, and we get a nice return this frown will turn upside down. If not, it could work out well, or not. (One caveat, we have two D men coming off injury/surgery, so some early insurance could come in handy. Though I'd argue even then McKeown would be fine and getting him some time would be good too). 

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7 hours ago, remkin said:

 

I DO think this could become a distraction though. He will be stripped of the C, and probably have his role and ice time cut (if he doesn't, then he's out there making "minuses" unless his game magically improves). So he's stripped of the C and playing less while we're hoping his value goes up. Then he bumps Fleury to the AHL while trade speculation is never ending. Eventually Joe Sakic got what he wanted for Duchene, but not before an entire season went down the tubes. 

I think it already is a distraction. I never for a minute thought Faulk would make it through the summer as a member of the Canes. What did de Hahn think, or what was he told when he signed here? What about Fleury, thinking he might go back to the A after a full year here? What about McKeown, buried in Charlotte again? I doubt Faulk affects the way we play de Hahn, but the other 2 could definitely be affected. If they expect to trade Faulk before the year is out, they can give him an A until he is out the door. Give Jordan the other A and Justin the C, and it seems less like he was bumped for being a poor leader. He may play on the 3rd pair, but he still gets power play time and a chance to show off that cannon. I feel like the plan is to “showcase” Faulk to move him for better value. I don’t see Faulk himself causing a distraction, just his presence creating a logjam in our whole organizational defense corps. If it does become a big enough distraction before a suitable deal comes along, take another Cliff Pu and be done. But I’d really like a top 6 forward. We have enough organizational depth that we could throw in a prospect if need be to get the right player.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

I think it already is a distraction. I never for a minute thought Faulk would make it through the summer as a member of the Canes. What did de Hahn think, or what was he told when he signed here? What about Fleury, thinking he might go back to the A after a full year here? What about McKeown, buried in Charlotte again? I doubt Faulk affects the way we play de Hahn, but the other 2 could definitely be affected. If they expect to trade Faulk before the year is out, they can give him an A until he is out the door. Give Jordan the other A and Justin the C, and it seems less like he was bumped for being a poor leader. He may play on the 3rd pair, but he still gets power play time and a chance to show off that cannon. I feel like the plan is to “showcase” Faulk to move him for better value. I don’t see Faulk himself causing a distraction, just his presence creating a logjam in our whole organizational defense corps. If it does become a big enough distraction before a suitable deal comes along, take another Cliff Pu and be done. But I’d really like a top 6 forward. We have enough organizational depth that we could throw in a prospect if need be to get the right player.

 

 

x10

 

For the right return, I'd include and Goat.

 

I would be immeasurably more comfortable with McKeown as the seventh D. The only problem as I see it is that Bean needs time in the A, and given the turnover on D there, maybe the PTB want him to get that year alongside Roland.

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I honestly think a trade will present itself eventually. In the meantime, shelter his minutes and give him the opportunity to succeed and increase his value. A forward could get injured. We would have the depth to move Faulk to make a Doug Weight or Mark Recchi mid season type move. I’m okay with that unless Fleury really shows up big, it would suck for a potential breakout season to be squashed by numbers.

 

When you get down to it though, Faulk is better than Fleury now (offensively). Having both he and Hamilton gives us two strong power play quarterbacks, both with big shots. And as I mentioned above, he adds depth and is expendable enough to move if the luxury becomes a necessity. Still, keeping Faulk is not detrimental to the team. In fact, it might result in a much improved power play. Or the flexibility to flip him for a forward if it becomes necessary mid season.

Edited by SuckaPunchd
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