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In-Season 2018-2019

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12 minutes ago, cclifford10 said:

So today we pay tribute to the past.  Maybe next we can pay tribute to the future?

 

aeros_81__96285.1289522817.500.750.jpg?c=2

Hey, that means we can retire Gordie Howe's #9!

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Why would Dundon, a Dallas guy through and through, move a team to Houston to compete against the very friends who helped get him into team ownership? Stop with the lazy opinions and trolling. It’s more embarrassing than shutout losses. 

Edited by BoDarville
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8 hours ago, BoDarville said:

Why would Dundon, a Dallas guy through and through, move a team to Houston to compete against the very friends who helped get him into team ownership? Stop with the lazy opinions and trolling. It’s more embarrassing than shutout losses. 

 

He baited you big time.   Glad the Finns showed up last night btw.  I really liked the Green jerseys.  Wonder if we will see them again.

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10 hours ago, BoDarville said:

Why would Dundon, a Dallas guy through and through, move a team to Houston to compete against the very friends who helped get him into team ownership? Stop with the lazy opinions and trolling. It’s more embarrassing than shutout losses. 

oooooh, careful there, Bo. Using the "t" word around here lands me (and apparently only me) in hot water... no matter how obviously someone is doing it.

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First off, let me be clear that The Committee needs to improve our product on the ice, specifically, move some of our R side defensive talent for scoring help (the sooner the better), make a splash in this summers likely deep UFA pool, and get Aho, Turbo, and Ferland re-signed.

 

As far as other criticism that "nothing is being done"::

Nothing will make up for it if the Canes don't start to ice a winning team. And the Canes may not be doing enough to enhance the fan experience.  But many either seem unaware, are ignoring, or are even critical of some of the things that the Canes are doing to try to improve the organization/ experience.  I could see the criticism if those things detracted from our ability to upgrade the product on the ice, but I'd wager that the people working on most of those other initiatives have little or nothing to do with players and contracts.

 

p.s.: I can understand that circumstances might have limited the ability to upgrade the team so far [except the Skinner move, that was a total  insert curse phrase here    ], but 2019 will definitively reveal whether TD is willing and able to invest in and improve our roster.

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37 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

Nothing will make up for it if the Canes don't start to ice a winning team. And the Canes may not be doing enough to enhance the fan experience.  But many either seem unaware, are ignoring, or are even critical of some of the things that the Canes are doing to try to improve the organization/ experience.  I could see the criticism if those things detracted from our ability to upgrade the product on the ice, but I'd wager that the people working on most of those other initiatives have little or nothing to do with players and contracts.

 

LakeLivin, thank you for your well reasoned post.  It was good.  I think you make some good points.  I would like to answer or counter a few things.

  • The 3D projector is LONG overdue.  Most arenas have had them for a few years.  That should be fun.
  • The scoreboard fiasco was just another misstep by the owner.  A little schooling for him.  His mistake was announcing it to the fans as a fait accompli, only to get slapped down by The Authority.  The way he went about it deserves a little criticism.
  • Why get so cheap that there isn't a live organ player?  Is this "too old" feeling?  Does TD care about The Elderly?  Or only about shirt rippin' like a helicopter Youngsters?  I sense a bit of that ageism thing.  Perhaps I'm wrong.
  • Dumping the radio play by play doesn't matter a lot.  But it matters. John and Tripp did pretty good the first two games to attend to the radio side.  Lately, not so much.  Can't listen to it when there are too many TV references.  So, this is a definite downgrade in Fan Experience.
  • Not everyone gets off on buying crap (cough, cough, Whalers gear) for their team.  I do understand that for that group, this was an incredible upgrade to the Fan Experience.  It helped that the team won.  I'll give that to those fans.  But please note that for many of us, this is not an upgrade to our experience and is actually off-putting to not see your home team's logo on the ice.  Sorry, it wasn't for everyone.
  • Not helping The Experience:
    • Beer price increases
    • Parking price increases
    • Closed concessions on the top floor, routinely. 
    • Zero souvenirs thrown or distributed to the top floor
    • Same parachute drop on the same rows of people every game
    • Smaller percentage of concession give back of STM payments

True that this has little or nothing to do with player contracts.  I would expect the business is run with different budgets.  It seems pretty clear that the budget for people providing non-game entertainment (a word TD used last night) has gone down or flattened.   What with the lack of organ player, a new Stormy, and in house announcers who still lack the vibe and excitement that someone like Ron the Ref could bring.  I'm not saying bring him back.  This started before TD when, cough, Waddell took over operations.

 

On the sort of positive side... They have a fan "plant" who is a maniac.  It is not my thing, but the Youngsters behind me loved him.  OK, maybe you need some more of that.  Maybe for the true kids you need a few play areas on the concourse.  (Come to think of it, they had that before and turned it into a bar!)   Maybe for us Elderly, you need a Dean Martin kind of guy sippin' cocktails and telling jokes on the concourse.  Some imagination is needed, and a few bucks need to be spent.

Edited by wxray1

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5 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

He baited you big time.   Glad the Finns showed up last night btw.  I really liked the Green jerseys.  Wonder if we will see them again.

If we win in them, use them more. Scrap the reds. 

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3 hours ago, wxray1 said:

 

LakeLivin, thank you for your well reasoned post.  It was good.  I think you make some good points.  I would like to answer or counter a few things.

  • The 3D projector is LONG overdue.  Most arenas have had them for a few years.  That should be fun.
  • The scoreboard fiasco was just another misstep by the owner.  A little schooling for him.  His mistake was announcing it to the fans as a fait accompli, only to get slapped down by The Authority.  The way he went about it deserves a little criticism.
  • Why get so cheap that there isn't a live organ player?  Is this "too old" feeling?  Does TD care about The Elderly?  Or only about shirt rippin' like a helicopter Youngsters?  I sense a bit of that ageism thing.  Perhaps I'm wrong.
  • Dumping the radio play by play doesn't matter a lot.  But it matters. John and Tripp did pretty good the first two games to attend to the radio side.  Lately, not so much.  Can't listen to it when there are too many TV references.  So, this is a definite downgrade in Fan Experience.
  • Not everyone gets off on buying crap (cough, cough, Whalers gear) for their team.  I do understand that for that group, this was an incredible upgrade to the Fan Experience.  It helped that the team won.  I'll give that to those fans.  But please note that for many of us, this is not an upgrade to our experience and is actually off-putting to not see your home team's logo on the ice.  Sorry, it wasn't for everyone.
  • Not helping The Experience:
    • Beer price increases
    • Parking price increases
    • Closed concessions on the top floor, routinely. 
    • Zero souvenirs thrown or distributed to the top floor
    • Same parachute drop on the same rows of people every game
    • Smaller percentage of concession give back of STM payments

True that this has little or nothing to do with player contracts.  I would expect the business is run with different budgets.  It seems pretty clear that the budget for people providing non-game entertainment (a word TD used last night) has gone down or flattened.   What with the lack of organ player, a new Stormy, and in house announcers who still lack the vibe and excitement that someone like Ron the Ref could bring.  I'm not saying bring him back.  This started before TD when, cough, Waddell took over operations.

 

On the sort of positive side... They have a fan "plant" who is a maniac.  It is not my thing, but the Youngsters behind me loved him.  OK, maybe you need some more of that.  Maybe for the true kids you need a few play areas on the concourse.  (Come to think of it, they had that before and turned it into a bar!)   Maybe for us Elderly, you need a Dean Martin kind of guy sippin' cocktails and telling jokes on the concourse.  Some imagination is needed, and a few bucks need to be spent.

 

Wx, I understand many of the criticisms fans have for TD, the Committee, and the Canes org in general.  And I have no problem with people venting.  Matter of fact, I expect it given how frustrating the Canes experience has become.  The only thing I'm pointing out is a concept I stumbled across a long time ago when I was with a company that was relocating a division from Indiana to (ironically) the Hartford area.:P   It's that morale is like a battleship, in that once it gets going in a certain direction it takes forever to slow it down let alone headed in the opposite direction.  Morale got to the point that even when the company did something good related to the move, many still took it as a negative, what I call the "yeah, but what about . . ."  principle.  People would brush off the positive news and bring up a previous grievance.  It feels like we're kind of headed in that direction.  The reason I bring this up is that I see it as being counterproductive to the fan experience in and of itself, in that it's kind of a circular phenomenon.  The more it happens, the worse morale gets, lather, rinse, and repeat.  We've got enough legitimate things to criticize, I just hope we can retain the ability to recognize any positives we do get. 

 

I'll hop down off my soapbox now, lol.  Thanks for the reasoned response and discussion, and here's hoping you and the rest of the Canes faithful:

HAVE A GREAT HOLIDAY!!

Edited by LakeLivin

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7 hours ago, BoDarville said:

If we win in them, use them more. Scrap the reds. 

You’re kidding, right? I wouldn’t want a player on my team that decides to give a better effort because he’s wearing a different sweater with the crest of a team that New Englanders and a few other NHL fans are nostalgic for. My team is the Hurricanes. I’d be fine with making the blacks primary and the reds secondary. I wasn’t a fan of doing the Whalers thing, but a lot of people liked it, so if they want to trot the green out once a year, so be it. But I’m pretty sure even though PK banished all references to the Whale, marketing Whaler merchandise puts dollars right in Dundon’s pocket. And this game sold a ton of it. I don’t begrudge him the money, just put more of it back into the team.

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10 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

You’re kidding, right? I wouldn’t want a player on my team that decides to give a better effort because he’s wearing a different sweater with the crest of a team that New Englanders and a few other NHL fans are nostalgic for. My team is the Hurricanes. I’d be fine with making the blacks primary and the reds secondary. I wasn’t a fan of doing the Whalers thing, but a lot of people liked it, so if they want to trot the green out once a year, so be it. But I’m pretty sure even though PK banished all references to the Whale, marketing Whaler merchandise puts dollars right in Dundon’s pocket. And this game sold a ton of it. I don’t begrudge him the money, just put more of it back into the team.

You’re really overthinking it. I meant that in the sense of superstition. I have no memory of the Whalers, so that doesn’t factor into my emotions at all. Though I do hate the red jerseys. 

Edited by BoDarville

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Merry Christmas 🎄🎁 fellow Caniacs. Hope everyone is well and enjoying the day.  Today we enjoy time with family and friends and hopefully not get a lump of coal 😈 .  Can’t wait for the boys to get back into it after the holiday. Go Canes!!!

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21 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

First off, let me be clear that The Committee needs to improve our product on the ice, specifically, move some of our R side defensive talent for scoring help (the sooner the better), make a splash in this summers likely deep UFA pool, and get Aho, Turbo, and Ferland re-signed.

 

As far as other criticism that "nothing is being done"::

Nothing will make up for it if the Canes don't start to ice a winning team. And the Canes may not be doing enough to enhance the fan experience.  But many either seem unaware, are ignoring, or are even critical of some of the things that the Canes are doing to try to improve the organization/ experience.  I could see the criticism if those things detracted from our ability to upgrade the product on the ice, but I'd wager that the people working on most of those other initiatives have little or nothing to do with players and contracts.

 

p.s.: I can understand that circumstances might have limited the ability to upgrade the team so far [except the Skinner move, that was a total  insert curse phrase here    ], but 2019 will definitively reveal whether TD is willing and able to invest in and improve our roster.

Lake,these are all good things that are being done but my concern continues to be where is TD's investment? He's been a master of celebrating other peoples investments,but not his own. Arena upgrades= Centenial Authority. Practice facility= Morrisville Athletic Center. TD wants an arena downtown,but not with his investments, wants a professional soccer team in Raleigh,but not his investments. IMO he fits the bill of a used car salesman until he starts spending his $'s and invests in the team. I will gladly change my opinion if he makes a splash in this coming off season as I will give him the first year as a pass especially with the limited UFA's available. Until he gets off of the cap floor and spends some $'s on talent, he's just another PK to me.

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57 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Lake,these are all good things that are being done but my concern continues to be where is TD's investment? He's been a master of celebrating other peoples investments,but not his own. Arena upgrades= Centenial Authority. Practice facility= Morrisville Athletic Center. TD wants an arena downtown,but not with his investments, wants a professional soccer team in Raleigh,but not his investments. IMO he fits the bill of a used car salesman until he starts spending his $'s and invests in the team. I will gladly change my opinion if he makes a splash in this coming off season as I will give him the first year as a pass especially with the limited UFA's available. Until he gets off of the cap floor and spends some $'s on talent, he's just another PK to me.

 

I don't disagree with much of what you say.  But when I look at (my understanding of) the circumstances to this point, i.e., last year's free agent crop and potentially available trade targets, and ask WWLHD (what would Lake have done), I don't know that I would be in a much different position.  Which I view as sitting with a lot of dry powder to be used to much better advantage next summer as compared to last.  But you're right, the question is still very much outstanding, and if TD doesn't invest heavily in talent for next year I'll be up front alongside you with my torch and pitchfork. 🔥  ⛏️  (closest I could find to a torch and pitchfork emojii, lol).   

 

NOTE: the above WWLHD position excepts the Skinner deal.  I thought that was a mistake when it happened and the more time goes by the worse it looks.  But my gut tells me that was more a matter of Brindy (and maybe J Will) driving the decision than a TD $ issue.     

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7 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

I don't disagree with much of what you say.  But when I look at (my understanding of) the circumstances to this point, i.e., last year's free agent crop and potentially available trade targets, and ask WWLHD (what would Lake have done), I don't know that I would be in a much different position.  Which I view as sitting with a lot of dry powder to be used to much better advantage next summer as compared to last.  But you're right, the question is still very much outstanding, and if TD doesn't invest heavily in talent for next year I'll be up front alongside you with my torch and pitchfork. 🔥  ⛏️  (closest I could find to a torch and pitchfork emojii, lol).   

 

NOTE: the above WWLHD position excepts the Skinner deal.  I thought that was a mistake when it happened and the more time goes by the worse it looks.  But my gut tells me that was more a matter of Brindy (and maybe J Will) driving the decision than a TD $ issue.     

Agree 100%.

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There's a few of us refugees from the Chicago sports scene, especially that of 30 or 40 years ago when all the owners were simply, uh, frugal.  So, pardon me if what we see with TD is playing out similarly. 

 

I'll leave you with my favorite quote on this topic:

Quote

During a contract dispute after the 1966 season, Mike Ditka, an all-pro tight end, described the Papa Bear's payroll philosophy.

''He throws nickels around,'' Mike Ditka said, ''like they were manhole covers.''

 

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57 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

There's a few of us refugees from the Chicago sports scene, especially that of 30 or 40 years ago when all the owners were simply, uh, frugal.  So, pardon me if what we see with TD is playing out similarly.

 

I'll leave you with my favorite quote on this topic:

 

I like the Ditka quote. lol.  And to add to your perspective, we're coming off of the PK era, so there's that taste lingering in everyone's mouth. :injured:

 

Hey, I get that I'm in the minority when it comes to thinking that TD might have been sincere when he said he'll invest in talent on the ice but will only do so wisely and that availability may have limited player moves so far instead of "frugality".  That's just my opinion, others differ.  I realize I'm not going to change minds on that front and am not trying to do so.

 

My original point was that there are a few people complaining that nothing has been done, specifically pointing out lack of a practice facility or PNC upgrades, and actually complaining about the possibility of an outdoor game.   I just wanted to point out that regardless of whether Dundon paid for them or not, there are some improvements that have been completed or are in the works.  Would they have happened under PK or did TD play a role in making them happen?   I have no idea.  And I'm not making the argument that enough has been done, just that there are some things in progress.

 

Like I said, I realize that I'm in the minority on this, and I'm ok with that.  Been there before and likely will be again.  :grin:

Edited by LakeLivin

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1 hour ago, wxray1 said:

There's a few of us refugees from the Chicago sports scene, especially that of 30 or 40 years ago when all the owners were simply, uh, frugal.  So, pardon me if what we see with TD is playing out similarly. 

 

I'll leave you with my favorite quote on this topic:

 

The McCaskey’s and the old man Wirtz come to mind here.

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7 hours ago, surfzone365 said:

Merry Christmas 🎄🎁 fellow Caniacs. Hope everyone is well and enjoying the day.  Today we enjoy time with family and friends and hopefully not get a lump of coal 😈 .  Can’t wait for the boys to get back into it after the holiday. Go Canes!!!

Well, I guess my wife is a keeper...look what I got ;)

image.jpg

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1 hour ago, coastal_caniac said:

I just hope the Canes have a plan.  If they do, I don't see it or understand what it is.  That's what irks me the most.  The team isn't exactly forthcoming with info either.  

I thought they had a plan since 2010. What they need is a good plan laid out by a good planner. I think they currently have an outhouse planner. They need a penthouse planner.

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