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Opening Night - Canes vs Islanders - October 4th, 7 pm

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3 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

To my eye, the forest - every other D man who made the roster - is far more defensively responsible,

and yet Faulk wasn't on the ice when they scored. Go figure.

 

Turnovers have always been Faulks weakness. Last night he had 4 giveaways but he also had 3 takeaways and was tied in Dmen hits with Hamilton. His shots and passes were getting through.

 

IMO you don't showcase a player for a trade in your first game. You are in it to win it. Faulk earned his ice time last night

 

 

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9 minutes ago, OBXer said:

and yet Faulk wasn't on the ice when they scored. Go figure.

 

Turnovers have always been Faulks weakness. Last night he had 4 giveaways but he also had 3 takeaways and was tied in Dmen hits with Hamilton. His shots and passes were getting through.

 

This is what confused me.  On one play, I was literally ready to run him out of town, AND then raise him on a pedestal.   He had a turn over that he ended up going 200' in a big hustle to break up. 

 

It is 'exciting' in a way.  :)

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2 hours ago, OBXer said:

IMO you don't showcase a player for a trade in your first game. You are in it to win it.

I feel a bit stronger. If you use a game(especially the opening night with a new coach) to do anything but win it, You would be an idiot.  Roddy is far from that.

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16 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Islanders Barzal said our ice is the worst in North America.

 

Canes need to check into the new technology the LA Kings started using that supposedly not only makes for better ice but also saves money and is ecologically friendly.  My understanding is that it pulls water out of the air and uses that to make a denser, more consistent sheet of ice, while also reducing the humidity inside the building and reducing AC costs.  To me it sounds like they're just using a giant dehumidifier to get pure water and reduce indoor humidity. 

 

  http://lakingsinsider.com/2018/05/22/vying-to-lessen-environmental-impact-while-improving-staples-center-ice/

https://www.nhl.com/kings/news/aeg--la-kings-partner-with-blueco-to-further-nhl-greener-rinks-mission/c-298632792

 

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4 hours ago, remkin said:

. . .

There is ample proof that the clearly established best time to pull the goalie down one is 3 minutes. The fact that Rod did it, makes me happy. It worked. Yet all we get is "he got lucky". But had it backfired, it would occupy about 15 posts for how dumb it was. The numbers are rock solid on this but it is politically tough for the coach, because if you're down you usually lose, but if you break with tradition, the loss gets pinned on that decision. Classic bias. If Ferland had not stuck his stick in that guys' skates the move could have yielded us a victory. Remember how many goals we had scored 5-5 for the first 57 minutes. None. None goals. 

. . .

 

3 hours ago, hag65 said:

 

I was very happy that he did it, he appears to not be concerned about criticism.  It probably won't work the next 8 times but remember it did work this one time and got us a point.  He's already way ahead of the game on this move.

 

3 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

On the whole pulling the goalie things, I never blamed Peters for doing it. I blamed the chipheads who told him to.

 

Analytics are fine up to point, which is what Roddy's "the coach has to have a feel for it" caveat is alluding to. You don't pull your keeper with three minutes left when the other team is possessing the puck in your zone. You do it when, as last night, you've dominated all night and a keeper has stood on his head and you're not going to beat him without another guy out there.

 

This - as I've said all along - is the problem with the whole analytics "argument" (if we're really determined to have one). Analytics can't be viewed in a vacuum. The circumstances play a not-marginal role in when you play the percentages which analytics point to. Faceoffs, which Rem and I have kicked around a lot already, are a perfect example. We both started at opposite poles, him saying they don't really matter, me saying they do. I think we've agreed at this point that their value is situational.

 

The same is true of when you pull the keeper. Pulling him with three minutes left and a faceoff in your own end or neutral ice, when your team has been playing on its heels all night, is just asking for trouble. Doing it when you've dominated and are playing your home opener and during play, when you have possession in the O-zone and the other team is off-guard? Much higher likelihood of success.

 

Rem and hag saved me some typing.  Pulling the goalie early doesn't work very often, it's just that it it's been shown to work more often than pulling him later.  Might have gotten us an extra point last night, so I hope everyone remembers that when the other team scores an empty netter to seal the game at the 2:45 mark when we pull him early somewhere down the line (which is sure to happen). 

 

Top,. I agree that situations need to be taken into account, although we may disagree about which situations.  Of course you don't do it unless you have possession or a faceoff in the other team's zone.  But I'd think that if the other team has had you playing on your heels all game, that's even more reason to pull the goalie early because there's little chance of you scoring if you don't. 

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18 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Canes need to check into the new technology the LA Kings started using that supposedly not only makes for better ice but also saves money and is ecologically friendly.  My understanding is that it pulls water out of the air and uses that to make a denser, more consistent sheet of ice, while also reducing the humidity inside the building and reducing AC costs.  To me it sounds like they're just using a giant dehumidifier to get pure water and reduce indoor humidity. 

 

  http://lakingsinsider.com/2018/05/22/vying-to-lessen-environmental-impact-while-improving-staples-center-ice/

https://www.nhl.com/kings/news/aeg--la-kings-partner-with-blueco-to-further-nhl-greener-rinks-mission/c-298632792

 

With all due respect to the LA Kings and BlueEco, I'll just say that LA humidity cannot even compare with NC humidity.  BlueEco sounds like they are trying to do good, especially in an area that has water supply problems (i.e. save condensate and recycle back to the sheet).  But that's LA.  Very arid.

 

The dehumidification technology exists, perhaps at a price, without a lot of razzle-dazzle Eco recycle process.  For the life of me, I do not understand why PNC is not capable of handling that kind of humidity we had yesterday.  If Bettman wants Southern hockey, well, the rinks better be able to handle ambient humidity (more beyond 20,000 breathing humans).

 

The rink did not handle the temperature or humidity well yesterday.  Period. It has to be better.  Barzel may have been a bit obnoxious, but sadly he was probably quite correct.  Dundon says he likes getting all kinds of feedback from the media so he can improve.  Consider this an opportunity to improve.  Players and fans alike will benefit from better ice.

 

Top Shelf may be right about deteriorating equipment.  During the cup run, there was a tropical storm on one of the games.  It was very, very wet.  Yet, they managed the humidity.  I'm not sure if the NHL Ice crew brought in auxiliary equipment that year, or has the existing equipment decayed, or is it being mismanaged.  Not sure.  But it needs to be checked.

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7 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

With all due respect to the LA Kings and BlueEco, I'll just say that LA humidity cannot even compare with NC humidity.  BlueEco sounds like they are trying to do good, especially in an area that has water supply problems (i.e. save condensate and recycle back to the sheet).  But that's LA.  Very arid.

 

The dehumidification technology exists, perhaps at a price, without a lot of razzle-dazzle Eco recycle process.  For the life of me, I do not understand why PNC is not capable of handling that kind of humidity we had yesterday.  If Bettman wants Southern hockey, well, the rinks better be able to handle ambient humidity (more beyond 20,000 breathing humans).

 

The rink did not handle the temperature or humidity well yesterday.  Period. It has to be better.  Barzel may have been a bit obnoxious, but sadly he was probably quite correct.  Dundon says he likes getting all kinds of feedback from the media so he can improve.  Consider this an opportunity to improve.  Players and fans alike will benefit from better ice.

 

Top Shelf may be right about deteriorating equipment.  During the cup run, there was a tropical storm on one of the games.  It was very, very wet.  Yet, they managed the humidity.  I'm not sure if the NHL Ice crew brought in auxiliary equipment that year, or has the existing equipment decayed, or is it being mismanaged.  Not sure.  But it needs to be checked.

 

Dehumidificfation is only part of it.  The other part is that they use the water from the process, which is so pure it freezes clear, hard and dense.  Here's a better article.  But yeah, no matter how, the org needs to do a better job with the conditions.

 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/la-fi-blueco-ice-20180705-story.html

Edited by LakeLivin

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Came here to see what you all thought about the game last night and......well, wow. "Brindy's an 'idiot' for pulling the goalie early", "Hamilton better be on the PP next game", "Peel screwed us" , blah, blah, blah. Good grief! It's ONE game, and the FIRST game for Brindy and some of the other guys on this team. I thought they looked pretty good considering some of these guys have only played a handful of games with each other and RB clearly has a new system for them to learn. I'll be the first to say I was/am very skeptical of RB's selection as head coach, but I liked what I saw. Lots of hustle and determination at least. Sure, one goal isn't gonna cut it, but they looked ready to play and I'm sure the offense will come. BTW - statistics show that pulling the goalie in the 2:30 to 3:00 min to go time frame is optimal, Hamilton may very well get PP time, and Peel didn't "screw" anyone, especially on the trip called against Ferland. That's a trip all day long in any league. ... Let's get a 10 game sample from the guys before we lose our minds. Haha ;)     

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

But I'd think that if the other team has had you playing on your heels all game, that's even more reason to pull the goalie early because there's little chance of you scoring if you don't. 

To each his own. I'd wager that if you broke out the analytics' results, there is a much greater percentage of successful early pulls resulting from situations like ours, last night, playing great and just having to get over the hump. Unfortunately analytics don't measure momentum, and in a momentum-dominated game like hockey, that is a big problem when analyzing certain aspects. 

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
typo

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9 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Nashville tried it as well except they pumped the water in from the urinals.

Related image

 

This reminds me of that sage old advice:  Don't eat yellow snow.  :P

Edited by LakeLivin
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20 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Top,. I agree that situations need to be taken into account, although we may disagree about which situations.  Of course you don't do it unless you have possession or a faceoff in the other team's zone.  But I'd think that if the other team has had you playing on your heels all game, that's even more reason to pull the goalie early because there's little chance of you scoring if you don't. 

 

I will concede that there has to be some "feel" by the coach, but the downside is the slippery slope and next thing you know the coach doesn't "feel" it until too late. But in his post game presser, Brindy said that there was some room for feel of the coach, but that in general the plan was to follow the odds. Clearly you have to be able to get possession, get the right guys out there, etc. 

 

However, I would disagree on the feel of "we're getting some pressure without it". The strategy in the last few minutes is to pinch the D, and sacrifice it for offense. This is already factored in, since everyone does it. We were getting pretty good pressure for the previous 57 minutes and scored no goals. Even if we had scored 1 goal in 57 minutes, that would translate to .017 goals per minute 5 on 5. 

 

At the end you want to force a goal, as time is obviously not on your side. Sure, they are more likely to score, but you can't win if no one else scores. You have to increase the odds of a score happening, which pulling does by a good bit. Of course since we already know they are more likely to score, and if no one scores we lose, its not usually going to work. But it's going to work more than 5/5, which almost never works.

 

The key to me is the target is 3 minutes, and you really want to get freaky, about 5 or more minutes down two. As long as we are close to that, we have an edge. It's a tiny edge, but so are some other things that get a lot more attention.

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

 

I will concede that there has to be some "feel" by the coach, but the downside is the slippery slope and next thing you know the coach doesn't "feel" it until too late. But in his post game presser, Brindy said that there was some room for feel of the coach, but that in general the plan was to follow the odds. Clearly you have to be able to get possession, get the right guys out there, etc. 

 

However, I would disagree on the feel of "we're getting some pressure without it". The strategy in the last few minutes is to pinch the D, and sacrifice it for offense. This is already factored in, since everyone does it. We were getting pretty good pressure for the previous 57 minutes and scored no goals. Even if we had scored 1 goal in 57 minutes, that would translate to .017 goals per minute 5 on 5. 

 

At the end you want to force a goal, as time is obviously not on your side. Sure, they are more likely to score, but you can't win if no one else scores. You have to increase the odds of a score happening, which pulling does by a good bit. Of course since we already know they are more likely to score, and if no one scores we lose, its not usually going to work. But it's going to work more than 5/5, which almost never works.

 

The key to me is the target is 3 minutes, and you really want to get freaky, about 5 or more minutes down two. As long as we are close to that, we have an edge. It's a tiny edge, but so are some other things that get a lot more attention.

 

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that you necessarily wait later if you're playing downhill. It's more the other direction, I think  you may need to go even earlier if you've been on your heels all game.  

 

I will note that I was very happy that Columbus, down 2 goals, waited until 1:30 left to pull their goalie!

Edited by LakeLivin
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4 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

 

I will note that I was very happy that Columbus, down 2 goals, waited until 1:30 left to pull their goalie!

I was thinking the same thing. Just leave him in till the end, essentially assures our victory. 

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