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In-season trades and player moves

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I dont envy Don Wadell right now. Faulk is the obvious trade because of his play last season, contract situation, and guys behind him. However chemistry plays into this and the team is playing very well together and we have Rask and Darling coming back. Someone has to go to make room for those guys or those guys he to go. We won't know what effect they have till they have been given some time. It's a good problem to have but some very tough choices coming up for the Canes brass

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11 minutes ago, remkin said:

But do we need two guys like that?

 

I would argue we do with the type of active D game we are playing but that is for a different day.

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I'm just tired of the logic that this org (or some of its fans, at least) seems to have fallen into, that a D man is good either offensively or defensively, and you can't have both. That's bull *edit*, and it has too long been used to make acceptable the kind of crap we've seen on the D end from Faulk for most of the last two years, even as his offense has also declined.

 

We move Skinner and Lindholm (both of whom, not for nothing, are PPG guys now that they're on a top line), but keep Faulk--and now we want more scoring. Is anybody really surprised?

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1 minute ago, top-shelf-1 said:

now we want more scoring. Is anybody really surprised?

 

Aren't we scoring at a higher rate this season?

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1 minute ago, OBXer said:

 

Aren't we scoring at a higher rate this season?

That wasn't the question, and in the context of the current topic (reports that the org wants to add a scoring forward) is irrelevant.

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Matthews got smoked clean driving the net, what I wish Hamilton woulda did half of on one of the Sharks goals. Anyway he left the game, wonder if it'll make the Leafs want to do something sooner regardless of what "it" is.

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14 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

Matthews got smoked clean driving the net, what I wish Hamilton woulda did half of on one of the Sharks goals. Anyway he left the game, wonder if it'll make the Leafs want to do something sooner regardless of what "it" is.

 

You do get the feeling something will happen soon. I don't know if we will be in the equation but I can't imagine the Nylander situation will go on much longer in Toronto.

 

I would think if Matthews is out for any length of time it would put any plan (if there ever was a plan) to trade Kadri on hold and put more pressure on the Leafs to get a Nylander deal done. 

Until more is known on the Matthews shoulder injury it is difficult to tell if it will have any effect on Leaf plans.

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15 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Aren't we scoring at a higher rate this season?

Frankly, though they are both doing well with their new teams, the mistake was not trading Skinner or Lindy. It was counting on Necas after Rask got hurt. I think at that point a decision was made that Necas could handle it, and Plan B was to go out and get a guy if he couldn't.

 

Welcome to Plan B. 

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4 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Frankly, though they are both doing well with their new teams, the mistake was not trading Skinner or Lindy. It was counting on Necas after Rask got hurt. I think at that point a decision was made that Necas could handle it, and Plan B was to go out and get a guy if he couldn't.

 

Welcome to Plan B. 

 

and that might be our biggest need, A proven third line center. I wouldn't think you would need either Faulk or Pesce to make that deal.

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1 minute ago, OBXer said:

 

and that might be our biggest need, A proven third line center. I wouldn't think you would need either Faulk or Pesce to make that deal.

I gotta say, though Roy was pretty invisible in the first Friday night, by the third he'd gotten into the flow. Among him, Bishop, and Kouk, we can probably cover 3C in-house until Rask is back. Further, I think all the Nylander talk is overdone. Freidman says the Leafs have told each of the 12 to 15 teams that have inquired that they are not interested in moving him. 

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5 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Freidman says the Leafs have told each of the 12 to 15 teams that have inquired that they are not interested in moving him. 

 

Yeah he just happens to be the biggest name out there at the moment with a situation that will shortly come to a head. That situation lends itself to speculation.

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I have a hard time blaming many of the deficiencies I saw from Faulk over the past couple of years on partners or systems.  Too many times I saw forwards blowing by him like he was mired in concrete.  Too many times I saw opponents out-quicking (is that a word?) him to pucks in our crease.  I saw lapses in judgement when  it came to pinching vs. retreating on D or on some of his passes deep in our zone.  And for years I've been critical of Faulk's willingness to block hard shots or stick up for his teammates. 

 

Having said that, Faulk looks like a different player this year, which leads me to ask why.  It's been reported that Faulk had bulked up for the past couple seasons but that this summer he changed his routine and got a lot leaner.  I wonder if that has made him quicker, which would certainly help with the first 2 problems I perceived?  And perhaps maybe even a bit indirectly affected some of the judgement issues as well, i.e., he's quick enough to get there on a particular decision this year where he might not have in the past several years?  Several times this season I've noticed Faulk making good plays with his stick at the blue line to keep the puck in our offensive zone.  Again, could an increase in quickness be key to those? 

 

Pure speculation on my part, but I've got to believe that the Canes analytical data includes stats from the strength and conditioning staff that measure quickness.  I'd love to see how Faulk's stats from this season compare to those from last.  

Edited by LakeLivin

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2 hours ago, Derailed75 said:

Faulk is the obvious trade because of his play last season

 

 

If anything, Faulk's play last season makes him less obvious as a cog in a trade, not more.  If Waddell truly wants to trade him, he's going to be telling all suitors to look at his work this season.

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I think their's the old conundrum. Up till now, it would seem that the market has just said no to Faulk, at least at what we want for him. If he continues to play better, then interest may grow, but then we don't want to move him anymore. I think the point about Rask's return, and having to fit him in is fair, but we have no idea what Rask will eventually bring. 

 

The good thing is that at the moment Faulk is a net positive on a team that is doing well. This lessens the acuity of our need to make a move. Wait for the right return. We do not want to SkinnerPu that trade. But if the return is right, it can still be a positive. We have enough NHL D men right now, and enough decent depth in the AHL to deal with injuries. 

 

It's not just do we need Faulk, but considering the return. It's: Faulk/ plus 6 NHL men vs Nylander plus 6 NHL D men (just hypothetically).

 

Anyways, right now there is no hurry IMO, but the team sure seems to be trying to pull something off.

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On another note, I think Roy will get another look, but he better not take too long to show something because Kuok is tearing it up and I'd predict he gets a look sooner than later.

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2 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

i.e., he's quick enough to get there on a particular decision this year where he might not have in the past several years?  Several times this season I've noticed Faulk making good plays with his stick at the blue line to keep the puck in our offensive zone.  Again, could an increase in quickness be key to those? 

You make a good point. Added quickness is a game-changer, and, at least on net-front, and zone-entry D, we've certainly seen that from Faulk this year.

 

I still have big issues with what I've taken to calling his "neutral zone pinches," just really poorly conceived attempts to short-circuit an opposing rush at the red line or even "higher," i.e. nearer the opposition's blue line. That and some of the passing decisions he still makes in his own end haven't changed much in number on a per-game basis, to my eye. Hopefully they drop as his reaction-play D efforts bear fruit, because there is no question that the more economically you can move in this game, the less oxygen-deprived the brain, which of course is a pretty big factor in one's decision-making. He is also skating a lower ATOI (1:10 less per game) than last year.

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Matthews expected to be out 4 weeks. That might alter the Toronto trade plans if indeed they ever had trade plans

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9 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Matthews expected to be out 4 weeks. That might alter the Toronto trade plans if indeed they ever had trade plans

I hope the saga ends soon. I don’t know that I can read another trade proposal that takes all of our good players for Nylander. Corresponding polls that say Toronto still says no to a trade that would have our leadership ROFL if it was proposed.

Edited by gocanes0506

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It takes some time to see what a team is going to be. Frankly it can take most of the season as teams historically rise and fall over the course of a year. But I'm ready to say that I think we might really need this type of trade sooner than later, and I think that the brass figured that out pretty much around the time they sent Necas down. 

 

The problem is overall lack of forward high end skill, especially snipers and finish. This team, with it's youth and energy and playing Rod's full on forecheck system routinely stifles even very good teams. (Ironicaly, not so good teams that pack it in give us fits, which has been longstanding too). But we simply do not convert enough of these shots. As mentioned in the GDT, we dominate the league at #1 in shots on goal, but are only 19th in actual goals, the stat that counts as Forslund reminds us. 

 

Further, we all, me included, are loving Ferland. But he almost has to cool off. The man is on a 45 goal pace. Counting on that is not a plan. I'm also loving Martinook, but I'm not really sold on him as a 20 plus goal guy. He is very good at getting chances, but he's not a sniper. TT is a guy with PPG potential, but he's really more of an assist guy. His career year is 23 goals. 

 

We traded lot of goals and skill for Pu to get this new grit and drive, and it surely could work, but we are in danger of becoming the newest version of "shots a plenty goals a few" Canes.  

 

In the long run, Svech and Necas will provide this. But while most of us were not counting on high level production from them this year, I was counting on more than we've seen so far. I no problem with this developmentally, but it's a problem for this team right now. Its only fair to put Zykov in this mix too. This is another guy with decent potential, but so far barely sniffing high quality chances and zero goals. And might as well throw in Wallmark with his one goal. Svech, Necas, Zykov, and Wallmark have 3 goals between them. Fold in a slow (but now building) start for McGinn (1 goal) and Williams (1 goal). 

 

I think that Williams and McGinn will find their goals as they are vets, but my main thesis is that the rookies are just not there yet and thus we need more reliable NHL skill up front for this year at least. Ideally we add a guy who buries the puck consistently. Again, I'm a big believer in the guys we have long run, but adding a sniper would make a big difference. It would also help the PP.

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On 10/28/2018 at 12:35 PM, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

If anything, Faulk's play last season makes him less obvious as a cog in a trade, not more.  If Waddell truly wants to trade him, he's going to be telling all suitors to look at his work this season.

I meant us wanting to ditch him. He has talent and its usual for GMs to think a guy just needs a new venue, change of scenery. That being said he still has guys behind him to fill his spot. 

 

I still question what will Waddel do with Rask and Darling. The team is playing pretty well without them

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Speaking of Faulk.  *edit* is he on the top OP unit and not Hamilton?!!  Both Faulk and him fine.  But *edit* is going on here?!!!

 

This PP has costed the team numerous games.   I can count 3 that not scoring on the PP really hurt us.  Need to fix it.  If that means screening goalie and just taking slap shots from point then so can be it.

 

Need to fix this bs asap.  Trade or no trade be damned.

 

Uhghhhhhhh!!!!!!

Edited by bluedevil58

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18 hours ago, remkin said:

It takes some time to see what a team is going to be. Frankly it can take most of the season as teams historically rise and fall over the course of a year. But I'm ready to say that I think we might really need this type of trade sooner than later, and I think that the brass figured that out pretty much around the time they sent Necas down. 

 

The problem is overall lack of forward high end skill, especially snipers and finish. This team, with it's youth and energy and playing Rod's full on forecheck system routinely stifles even very good teams. (Ironicaly, not so good teams that pack it in give us fits, which has been longstanding too). But we simply do not convert enough of these shots. As mentioned in the GDT, we dominate the league at #1 in shots on goal, but are only 19th in actual goals, the stat that counts as Forslund reminds us. 

 

Further, we all, me included, are loving Ferland. But he almost has to cool off. The man is on a 45 goal pace. Counting on that is not a plan. I'm also loving Martinook, but I'm not really sold on him as a 20 plus goal guy. He is very good at getting chances, but he's not a sniper. TT is a guy with PPG potential, but he's really more of an assist guy. His career year is 23 goals. 

 

We traded lot of goals and skill for Pu to get this new grit and drive, and it surely could work, but we are in danger of becoming the newest version of "shots a plenty goals a few" Canes.  

 

In the long run, Svech and Necas will provide this. But while most of us were not counting on high level production from them this year, I was counting on more than we've seen so far. I no problem with this developmentally, but it's a problem for this team right now. Its only fair to put Zykov in this mix too. This is another guy with decent potential, but so far barely sniffing high quality chances and zero goals. And might as well throw in Wallmark with his one goal. Svech, Necas, Zykov, and Wallmark have 3 goals between them. Fold in a slow (but now building) start for McGinn (1 goal) and Williams (1 goal). 

 

I think that Williams and McGinn will find their goals as they are vets, but my main thesis is that the rookies are just not there yet and thus we need more reliable NHL skill up front for this year at least. Ideally we add a guy who buries the puck consistently. Again, I'm a big believer in the guys we have long run, but adding a sniper would make a big difference. It would also help the PP.

This analyse is spot on imo..  Not so sure the Captain will find goals, as he seems a step behind the play this season to me. Nonetheless, its my hope the org. doesnt wait to long to find a trade partner. As the descent down the standings has already started...

Edited by PamlicoPuck

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3 hours ago, PamlicoPuck said:

As the descent down the standings has already started...

Thats inspiring. Wanna hasten this just knee jerk a trade.

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I dunno about a descent down the standings but adding more skill in the top-6 is a legit concern and if a trade can help the team in that area then I'd rather see it happen sooner than later.  We have assets to make it happen without gutting the team.  That's the reality.

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