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In-season trades and player moves

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26 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Please. Roddy is trying to balance D pairs with one O- and D-type player per pair.

 

Exactly, our system. Easier to bring up a 3rd pair Dman than a 2nd. Oh that's right Fluery is back up. If we aren't going to use Pesce on the first or second pair he is available.

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14 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

I agree with the sentiment and Pesce is my favorite Cane, but as far as which conference he gets traded to, that's a non-issue IMO.  If he's the brick that keeps the Canes out of the finals forever, then he should be keeping our opposition out now, and that's not happening.  If he can return the final guy we need, then i don't care if he's in DC.  Fully agreed about the third pair thing, though.  He's definitely our top RHD IMO, no matter how HCRB fills out the chart.

He's actually not my favorite, but anybody who doesn't think he's as good as Slavin isn't watching the games. He is not seen that way by some because he plays a more urgent, grittier, grinding style, while Slavin makes it look easy. But given the wealth of D talent we have to offer that is not locked down on long-term deals (or whose deals will soon end), I see very little logic in rolling over and letting them have Pesce.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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14 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

Exactly, our system. Easier to bring up a 3rd pair Dman than a 2nd. Oh that's right Fluery is back up. If we aren't going to use Pesce on the first or second pair he is available.

Pesce is in our top four--third overall in ice time (19:52 ATOI), virtually tied with Hamilton (19:50). Slavin leads all D by far (with 1:20 more per night than Faulk). So again, believe the white board if you like, but GMs look at TOI.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

but anybody who doesn't think he's as good as Slavin isn't watching the games

 

You and I really see Dmen differently. Pesce is good but he isn't Slavin, not sure he is even close. But he is our second best defensive player. You can spin it how you want and I can spin it how I want. The only thing that will matter is how Toronto wants to spin it. This trade will have a lot of moving parts. It is still likely it won't happen. Then again it might. .

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Im tired of watching the struggles to score already this season.. Trade, sell, bargain,swap,promise whoever or however for any one or combo players we have other than Aho/Slavin for someone who can hit the back of the net consistently...

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30 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

You and I really see Dmen differently. Pesce is good but he isn't Slavin, not sure he is even close. But he is our second best defensive player. You can spin it how you want and I can spin it how I want. The only thing that will matter is how Toronto wants to spin it. This trade will have a lot of moving parts. It is still likely it won't happen. Then again it might. .

Pesce +8 

Slavin -1

Not a perfect stat as we all agree, but that's pretty damned studly.

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I hate the idea of losing Pesce. Hate it. But Nylander is also a rare get. We need O, they need D. It's a hockey trade. Obviously the contract has to be worked out, I assumed that went without saying.

 

We will lose some shut down and that hurts. But we go Hamilton, Faulk, TVR on the right, Slavin, DeHaan, Fleury on the left. We have McKeown if a RHD goes down, and Carrick and other options if a LHD goes down. And maybe we get a step closer to signing Fox, and Bean continues to develop, both guys potentially available next season. 

 

Oh, and we have freaking Nylander. 

 

He helps immediately, but when Necas and Svech are in full stride? Aho, Svech, TT, Nylander, and Necas is serious high end talent, (5 guys with 65 plus point potential, and at least two of them with 90 point potential), then add Ferland and Foegele, with Jordan as maybe a third line center? Maybe Rask gets his groove back. Then any number of Roy, Wallmark, Gauthier, Kuok, Pu, etc could arrive too. 

 

Heck we'd be so set, we'd have to start trading prospects and lower end guys for picks. Or maybe a goalie. 

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Please. Roddy is trying to balance D pairs with one O- and D-type player per pair. But whenever he's needed a stop late, guess who he's put on the ice: Pesce and Slavin. That is a number-one defensive pairing, regardless how he writes their names on the white board before the game.

 

All of that being said, I'd actually do Pesce for a similarly skilled player from the Western Conference. But send the Leafs Pesce and we basically gift them the final brick in a wall that could keep the Canes from advancing to a Final for years to come.

They don’t need a brick to keep us out of the Final if we can’t make the playoffs. I love Pesce, and agree he’s our top RHD, but we have Fleury, McKeown, and Carrick, with Bean hopefully not far from being ready. And if we can sign Fox he is supposed to be a high end talent. We can’t play all of them, and none of them would return a proven center. Which we need right now. Nylander may not even be available, but if he is, or when he is, we need to aggressively pursue him.

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24 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

I'm ready for a hockey trade for more twine finding.

 

 

Or at least another player that can help our shooters find the twine.  Nylander I know is a skilled passer.  We need another one of those types of players.  Aho is like the only one we have right now but he can't play on every line.  I know Nylander can't either but he may be the right person to help Foegele and Williams get going.

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No thanks. Pesce is way undervalued, even by many fans here. I completely agree with TS1. If we are moving Pesce, they need to not only sign Nylander for us (and not at a ridiculous term/$) but add to the return, which probably wouldn’t happen. People need to acknowledge not only Pesce’s ability and his position (RHD), but his ridiculously wonderful contract (6 years at 4.025m per). For a top pairing (in ice time) elite defensive defenseman who is a RHD, that contract greatly increases his value. Especially when you’re talking moving a guy who takes a nice franchise-friendly extension like that for a guy who is forcing his team to either pay him more than they want to or trade him. Or he just won’t play. Now, I personally think it’s every player’s right to get paid what they feel they are worth. And Toronto screwed themselves by signing Tavares financially, creating this situation.

 

Still, I’d pass. The season is early, while Nylander could be a top-6 center that pots 60+ points per year for 7 years or whatever consider:

A, how much this will cost the team in $?

B, how will it effect Sebastian Aho’s ongoing contract extension negotiations?

C, how will it effect our penalty kill?

Edit: thought of more horrors

D, who eventually gets cut loose in free agency to mitigate Nylander’s roster spot/cap hit? Ferland, Aho, TT all need new contracts....

 

Also a point to make: Do you really think we’ll be able to find another player like Pesce as good as he is and on as good of a contract? Players consistently see raises in pay as the cap rises and their value is established. Slavin and Pesce’s contracts on the back end (and Faulk and Hamilton’s for that matter) are the reason why have the ability to really push for a Cup in the next 3 years (with this current D corps). Call me crazy, but I’m pretty sure that’s our goal. Win now. I don’t think moving Pesce for Nylander would do that in our current window. If we move Faulk it makes more sense, as his contract while not bad is nearing its end and he’s less a crucial cog in our team makeup. But either of Pesce or Slavin, and you are risking the assets in place for sustained success and contender status down the road as well as right now. Just my opinion. 

 

Pesce and Slavin are the keys to our defensive side of the game. While Aho and TT (and Ferland atm) are currently the keys to our offense. While one line cannot carry an entire team offensively, Slavin/Pesce being split up spread their talent out on the blue line while being paired when the situation is dire. They carry our D. Who takes Pesce’s spot with Slavin in those situations? TVR? :(

 

Tl;dr - I wouldn’t do it for Slavin or Pesce. Anyone else I would. I think Faulk may have an edge in value based on his right handedness. But I don’t think Faulk would get us Nylander. Pesce is a bigger part of this team’s defensive corps than some people realize, and at on an amazing contract. Speaking of contracts, Nylander’s contract will most likely effect Aho’s contract, plus we also have Ferland and Teravainen to sign to new contracts! :o

Edited by SuckaPunchd
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37 minutes ago, Sportsfan-1-2 said:

https://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2018/10/29/18031236/what-should-william-nylander-trade-look-like-nhl-rangers-rumors-maple-leafs-toronto-new-york-kreider

 

According to this Nylander is wanting 8.5 million per year.  Is it worth pursuing him if that's the case?

 

No.  But that $8.5m figure is from a report dated Sept. 14th.  I'm thinking that even if accurate, that figure is more likely Nylander's initial ask than his realistic expectation.  But who knows?  Both sides have been exceptionally tight when it comes to details.

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1 hour ago, SuckaPunchd said:

Who takes Pesce’s spot with Slavin in those situations? TVR?

Yes. And while it might work in the short term (TVR led the TEAM in +/- last year), he is also five years older than Pesce. So we'd be splitting up a pair that, as you infer, could be this team's D stalwarts for the next 10 years, if not more.

 

I've said it before: I'd give Toronto whatever TWO of our current roster D corps they want, EXCEPT Slavin or Pesce. With Cajovsky, McKeown, and Fleury we'd still have our NHL 7 for this year and more, and we still have Bean and Fox in the wings. We could do that deal, not even blink, and soften the impact of Nylander's salary--the latter of which is absolutely necessary (again, as you point out) given that the whole first line is in need of extension. 

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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On 10/29/2018 at 8:05 PM, bluedevil58 said:

Speaking of Faulk.  *edit* is he on the top OP unit and not Hamilton?!!  Both Faulk and him fine.  But *edit* is going on here?!!!

 

This PP has costed the team numerous games.   I can count 3 that not scoring on the PP really hurt us.  Need to fix it.  If that means screening goalie and just taking slap shots from point then so can be it.

 

Need to fix this bs asap.  Trade or no trade be damned.

 

Uhghhhhhhh!!!!!!

All this speculation about Nylander???

 

Pfft.

 

FOUR WORDS...

 

We need a goalie.

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More Hurricanes/Nylander talk

 

The Fourth Period KINGS, HURRICANES HOT FOR NYLANDER

Quote

Two separate sources have confirmed to TFP the Hurricanes have spoken with Nylander’s agent, Lewis Gross, while one source believes the two sides have discussed a contract. An offer-sheet, though, is not believed to be in the cards.

 

The story also indicates that any deal would almost certainly include Pesce. Also say sources have indicated the two clubs may be talking a bigger multi player deal.

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The Canes need some more offensive talent.  They need to figure out something soon before it is too late to recover.

 

the brass made the huge mistake of penciling in Necas into a large role for the team and it didn’t work out.  

 

All you you have to do is look and Lindy and Skinners stats this year to see what happens when players get to play with some actual offensive talent as both are producing at a solid pace right now.  All I know is that skinners 13 points would sure help this team right now.

 

So in order for the Canes to acquire some offensive firepower, they are going to have to trade away some defense.  Fortunately the canes have players that can step in and fill the hole of whichever player gets traded.  We have some defensive depth.  There is no one that can jump in and help the offense currently in the organization (with the lone exception possibly being Rask).

 

i just don’t know if Nylander is the player I would pull the trigger on.  Between assets traded away and hefty contract, I don’t know if he is worth it.  He’s a nice player, but I don’t know if can be counted on to be the man.

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11 hours ago, Porter100 said:

All this speculation about Nylander???

Pfft.

FOUR WORDS...

We need a goalie.

 

Thing is, not many apparent fixes available at this time. Seems like there will be a lot more options after the season.  Do you go with what would probably be at best a very expensive band-aid now, or look to actually fix the position next off season?

Edited by LakeLivin

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14 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Yes. And while it might work in the short term (TVR led the TEAM in +/- last year), he is also five years older than Pesce. So we'd be splitting up a pair that, as you infer, could be this team's D stalwarts for the next 10 years, if not more.

 

I've said it before: I'd give Toronto whatever TWO of our current roster D corps they want, EXCEPT Slavin or Pesce. With Cajovsky, McKeown, and Fleury we'd still have our NHL 7 for this year and more, and we still have Bean and Fox in the wings. We could do that deal, not even blink, and soften the impact of Nylander's salary--the latter of which is absolutely necessary (again, as you point out) given that the whole first line is in need of extension. 

 

Huh? That’s like saying you’d buy groceries with anything EXCEPT cash or debit card. Comeon man.

 

TO has the groceries but they aren’t free.

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2 hours ago, OBXer said:

More Hurricanes/Nylander talk

 

The Fourth Period KINGS, HURRICANES HOT FOR NYLANDER

 

The story also indicates that any deal would almost certainly include Pesce. Also say sources have indicated the two clubs may be talking a bigger multi player deal.

 

It's pretty clear to me that they don't want Faulk, nor do many teams, at least not for the return we're looking for. Interesting that the two clubs are talking bigger trade. Both exciting and scary, but our committee has shown they will wheel and deal in a multiplayer deal. If we're talking guys beyond prospects, it makes me wonder who. If we are talking prospects, just don't move Necas. If we did Pesce for Nylander IMO our need would then be one thing: goalie.

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Bobrovsky is on the TSN Trade Bait list at #7. He has been struggling this season and is a UFA at the end of this season.

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42 minutes ago, Porter100 said:

Or how bout this...

 

McE, Darling, Mzar and Tera for Ny and a pick.

 

if they won’t take Faulk, we put HIM between our pipes and be done with it 

 

;)

 

 

McE cannot be included in this trade - since we claimed him off waivers from them, they'd have to turn him down for nothing before we can make them pay for him.

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