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Nylander is listed as a center. I'm not a major follower of the Leafs. How much center does he play, and how well? I researched this a little and found this: https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2018/3/17/17130994/toronto-maple-leafs-william-nylander-centre-depth, Take away, he did pretty well, and if the leafs didn't have A. Matthews he'd probably be at center all the time. 

 

I tend to gravitate towards situational outliers that may create value. Chances to take advantage of other team's situations. One of the most brilliant ones in recent history was Ron Francis' theft of Teuvo Teravainen for a second and a third round pick that turned out to be Chad Krys and Evan Barrat, both playing in college. Unfortunately, this turned out to be the only big non goalie move Francis was able to make. But he did to two other things. He left us with a deep and wondrous prospect pool, and too many D men. 

 

So, at a macro level, something like this could be a way to kill 4 birds with one stone (3 if Nylander can't play center). Bird 1: Get one more young, legit elite scoring forward in here who at least plays some D. Bird 2: Flip D for O. Bird 3. Possibly use some prospects to make a deal. Bird 4: Get a center. On bird 4, it seems there is another situation where we can find a diamond in the rough. Nylander can play center, but hasn't had enough of a chance at it.

 

Sometimes we just automatically take one side or the other. I appreciate Top reconsidering because that's hard to do. I don't know the answer on that, except to trust that the organization and the committee have a better handle on what kind of kid Nylander really is than we do. The situation suggests that the Leafs would be the ones to be in the "wrong", as they hold the RFA cards, and almost HAVE to squeeze someone. So they've internally realized they are going with Tavares, Matthews, and Marner, and that does not leave room to pay Nylander. 

 

Can we take advantage? I know we want to because when there was even a whiff that they might trade him the Canes were on the phone asking for him. At the moment the answer is "no".  

 

Another thing for us is that Toronto is softening up the negotiations for us. If they're offering $4 million/year? Easy to look good against that. And imagine you're Nylander. You've already put up two seasons producing points of 122 vs Marner's 130. But you're going to make half of what he makes? Really? And you're some kind of punk for holding out? Maybe, maybe not.

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On 10/15/2018 at 11:18 AM, top-shelf-1 said:

 

 

#1: Nylander deserves to get paid, and as others (and the reported offer, linked above, suggest) when the Maple Leafs got Tavares, they decided that they could jerk Nylander around. 

 

#2: That being said, Nylander's starting point in the negotiations is ridiculous. $8.5 million is not happening for any winger coming off his ELC. But $4 million is an insult based on what Nylander has already done, and the fact that the Leafs are calling it an "offer" (with a straight face) only proves point #1.

 

 

 

This is why they are at a total impasse. Toronto's GM and Owner have stated all along that Nylander should take a discount offer "To be part of something special". Both parties ask's are both way out of line which signals getting something done soon doesn't look promising. If I was Nylander I'd hold out as well but his ask needs to drop a little,but not 4.5 mil. Perhaps 6.5-7mil is more of an appropriate ask. Cups are great for the resume and psyche, but Nylander has a career and future to worry about as much as any one else. Why should he take a huge discount? Why the Canes need to move on him hard? He's 22, has put up over 60 points in his last two years and hey William you can be part of something special right here in Raleigh for years to come. Many on this board were counting on Necas and Svech to put up some pretty big numbers this year. I was not so optimistic based on 1st year NHL experience.  Yes it is early but I don't see big numbers coming from Necas or Svech based on what I have seen so far. Svech on the forth line is not going to get his offense going. Adding a proven point producer can only help our team and give us more options. Adding Nylander would allow us to move up Svech and possibly move Necas to wing if we are hell bent on keeping him up. Aho/Staal/Nylander, pretty scary top 3.

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1 hour ago, slapshot02 said:

This is why they are at a total impasse. Toronto's GM and Owner have stated all along that Nylander should take a discount offer "To be part of something special". Both parties ask's are both way out of line which signals getting something done soon doesn't look promising. If I was Nylander I'd hold out as well but his ask needs to drop a little,but not 4.5 mil. Perhaps 6.5-7mil is more of an appropriate ask. Cups are great for the resume and psyche, but Nylander has a career and future to worry about as much as any one else. Why should he take a huge discount? Why the Canes need to move on him hard? He's 22, has put up over 60 points in his last two years and hey William you can be part of something special right here in Raleigh for years to come. Many on this board were counting on Necas and Svech to put up some pretty big numbers this year. I was not so optimistic based on 1st year NHL experience.  Yes it is early but I don't see big numbers coming from Necas or Svech based on what I have seen so far. Svech on the forth line is not going to get his offense going. Adding a proven point producer can only help our team and give us more options. Adding Nylander would allow us to move up Svech and possibly move Necas to wing if we are hell bent on keeping him up. Aho/Staal/Nylander, pretty scary top 3.

I can totally see that point of view. I just feel like we have guys in CLT better qualified than Necas, and already invested in this org, unlike Nylander. Wallmarks in waiting (at least, and that is no slam on Lucas, who has been great), if you look at their pro careers thus far. Why deepen our already-impending cap issues given the homegrown talent we'll be signing in coming years, by adding Nylander's number to the payroll, plus risk that he's not an NHL center? I'd rather give the guys we've developed or acquired (listed in my prior post) the first bite at that apple, I guess. If they work out, they get the reward they've worked for, and that, on top of Wallmark and Foegele, is a really good message to other prospects.

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I will say this on Necas. If we did pick up Nylander (somehow), even easier to send Necas down. 

 

Also, while I'm a big Necas guy, both Kuok and even now Roy are making a case if we need to bring someone up and let Necas get some AHL time. I'm still not ready to throw it in on him, but there are options.

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Well now about this Nylander thing

 

Quote

LeBrun believes Hurricanes blueliner Brett Pesce would be of interest to the Leafs

 

SPECTOR’S NOTE: The Hurricanes could be reluctant to part with Pesce, preferring instead to offer up Justin Faulk

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Big no on moving Pesce.

 

Nylander is good and imaging him centering Svech and Foegele is awesome.

 

BUT.... Pesce is more valuable long term.  We need a rock solid partner for Fox/Bean or Fluery for a a while. RHDs are harder to find as well. It would be hard to pluck one from FA.

 

Also as much as Toronto holds the power over Nylander, the rest of the NHL sees what is going on in Toronto. A looming cap ceiling quickly crashing on their head.

Matthews- top 8 in the league pay type raise coming

Marner- Aho level raise coming

Nylander- wants Aho type money after soaking up all those extra helpers from Matthews’ goals.

Kapenan- now is soaking up Matthews’ helpers; increasing his ask in the off season each day.

Then add in the 49 million already spoken for next season. That is the entire expected cap for next season without a full roster. An NHL team doesn’t have to pay what Toronto wants. They can take what we offer or wait until they have to give it away.  

 

I’d rather trade low futures for Hayes or Faulk + for Zibanejad.

Edited by gocanes0506

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I agree that Pesce is a big ask. The guy is the anti-Faulk (sorry Faulk fans). He consistently makes the D plays over and over and over that add up to winning. Faulk has been a bit better, but if I'm planning long term, I'm looking at the past 4 years of Faulk as well. Why bring up Faulk? Well if we trade Pesce, we keep Faulk. I gotta think even Faulk supporters have to tire of Faulk detractors constantly pointing out Faulk's flubs. Even if Faulk is unfairly maligned (obviously I don't think he is), he is the last of the Mohicans. The last guy clearly associated with a lot of losing. The last guy I can see digging puck after puck out of our own net after goals against. The ultimate "both the player and the team could use a change" scenario.

 

TVR is a very nice bottom pair guy, but I don't see him becoming more than that. McKeown maybe the same. Fox, not even signed. Pesce is the rock on the right side. It pains me because I think Nylander would be a huge get, but I agree, not for Pesce. 

 

I've posted on here many times now that I don't think most teams want Faulk, and certainly not for a high end forward. I wonder if there could be a deal that loads up on Faulk plus. I know some here think that's too much, but we've been shopping Faulk for a long time and not finding even a Pu deal apparently. Slavin-Pesce, Hamilton-DeHaan, TVR-Fleury is extremely solid. If Toronto has any interest in Faulk, I'd add in a prospect, and a second rounder, maybe even more to have Faulk as the centerpiece. 

 

And look, Faulk himself would get to go play in Toronto on a powerhouse team. Unfortunately, my guess is Toronto doesn't want Faulk, nor some other teams, at least not for what we're asking (if Faulk isn't worth a beaten down Saad, how is he worth Nylander?), and that's why he's still here.

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Other than our own prejudice for or against Faulk you have to look at it from a Leaf point of view.

 

Why would you want Pesce. 1) you can't have Slavin 2) He has a reasonable contract that fits in your cap plans 3} He has proven he can skate with top pair or bottom pair on the left or right side 4) You don't need a scoring Dman your goal production isn't a problem. 5} He is a quality proven NHL Dman

 

Why you don't want Faulk 1) He will be a free agent next season 2) He will be a free agent next season and you will need to fit him in your cap plan 3) With your high scoring forward crew you don't need a big shot, offensive minded Dman 5) Did I say you would need to re-sign him next year while you have two other Dmen you also need to resign.

 

Good teams aren't afraid to make trades. If it means giving up a quality Dman like Pesce or a big shot proven Dman like Faulk for a player that makes you better you pull the trigger.

 

I doubt we go after Nylander.At least as long as this contract situation hangs over his head.

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11 minutes ago, remkin said:

I agree that Pesce is a big ask. The guy is the anti-Faulk (sorry Faulk fans). He consistently makes the D plays over and over and over that add up to winning. Faulk has been a bit better, but if I'm planning long term, I'm looking at the past 4 years of Faulk as well. Why bring up Faulk? Well if we trade Pesce, we keep Faulk. I gotta think even Faulk supporters have to tire of Faulk detractors constantly pointing out Faulk's flubs. Even if Faulk is unfairly maligned (obviously I don't think he is), he is the last of the Mohicans. The last guy clearly associated with a lot of losing. The last guy I can see digging puck after puck out of our own net after goals against. The ultimate "both the player and the team could use a change" scenario.

 

TVR is a very nice bottom pair guy, but I don't see him becoming more than that. McKeown maybe the same. Fox, not even signed. Pesce is the rock on the right side. It pains me because I think Nylander would be a huge get, but I agree, not for Pesce. 

 

I've posted on here many times now that I don't think most teams want Faulk, and certainly not for a high end forward. I wonder if there could be a deal that loads up on Faulk plus. I know some here think that's too much, but we've been shopping Faulk for a long time and not finding even a Pu deal apparently. Slavin-Pesce, Hamilton-DeHaan, TVR-Fleury is extremely solid. If Toronto has any interest in Faulk, I'd add in a prospect, and a second rounder, maybe even more to have Faulk as the centerpiece. 

 

And look, Faulk himself would get to go play in Toronto on a powerhouse team. Unfortunately, my guess is Toronto doesn't want Faulk, nor some other teams, at least not for what we're asking (if Faulk isn't worth a beaten down Saad, how is he worth Nylander?), and that's why he's still here.

 

My take from Leafs fans is that they're already too heavily weighted towards offensive defensemen and need a RH defenseman who can, well, defend.  But if Toronto was open to it, I'd add a nice prospect or maybe a 2nd round pick to Faulk in exchange for Nylander.   With the caveat that Nylander agrees to a reasonable contract extension with the Canes.  Maybe something in the range of mid $6 to low $7?  And if he wasn't open to that because he projects himself to be worth more in the not too distant future (a real possibility), I'd be willing to offer him a 2 or 3 year bridge deal.  That would give us 3-4 years of him, with his deal ending at a time that I can see the Canes being one of the premier teams in the league and therefore having a good chance of extending even him even further at that time.

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6 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

I'd be willing to offer him a 2 or 3 year bridge deal.

 

LakeLiving why would Nylander and his agent except a bridge deal from the Hurricanes, a promising but unproven playoff contender while it has been reported Toronto, a probable playoff team is willing, maybe prefer to offer a similar bridge deal?

 

My belief is that if we want Nylander then Dundon will need to open up the safe.We could do it, we have the cap space but do we want to do that.

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4 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

LakeLiving why would Nylander and his agent except a bridge deal from the Hurricanes, a promising but unproven playoff contender while it has been reported Toronto, a probable playoff team is willing, maybe prefer to offer a similar bridge deal?

 

My belief is that if we want Nylander then Dundon will need to open up the safe.We could do it, we have the cap space but do we want to do that.

 

Sure, if Toronto is willing to offer up a similar deal then odds are he'd take theirs before ours (if he were even open to a bridge).  Unless maybe he gets the feeling that he's being slighted in that Leafs seem like they're willing to pay Tavares, Matthews, and Marner but not him, and therefore questions how they see his role on the team (I'm not suggesting that's the case). 

 

Have you heard that the Leafs might be willing to entertain a bridge deal that could possibly, well, bridge the gap between what the Leafs are supposedly offering and what Nylander is supposedly asking? All I've heard talked about is $, not term, but that doesn't mean much. It's not like I'm following the issue all that closely.

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1 minute ago, LakeLivin said:

Have you heard that the Leafs might be willing to entertain a bridge deal

 

Early on in this soap opera I read the Leafs might be willing to offer a bridge deal. What they have actually offered is pure speculation. Good point about Nylander possible feeling slighted. Yeah that would probable mean he wouldn't except anything but top asking price while possible be open to a more reasonable deal elsewhere.

 

 

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1 minute ago, OBXer said:

 

Early on in this soap opera I read the Leafs might be willing to offer a bridge deal. What they have actually offered is pure speculation. Good point about Nylander possible feeling slighted. Yeah that would probable mean he wouldn't except anything but top asking price while possible be open to a more reasonable deal elsewhere.

 

I'm wondering more about how much the Leafs offered if they did throw out a bridge deal.  If their offer was, say, 2-3 years at $5m per (or less), I could still see issues with him taking it.  Whereas if we were willing to go, say, 2-3 years at $6.5m per, perhaps that would get it done?  Pure speculation on my part, mind you.

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I hate to open up a potentially unpopular view on a deal that is a long ways from likely, but to me if we can move Faulk for Nylander, I'd be willing to do just about anything to make that move. I just think that moving Faulk on will hurt this team about as much as Nylander being out has hurt Toronto. Frankly Faulk is blocking good young D men and moving him is, in some ways a net positive and the final piece of moving away from the guys associated with lots of losing. Further, it means keeping Pesce in this scenario, who is IMHO far more valuable to us than Faulk. (Pesce even has 2 goals this year). 

 

Thus sweeten away on both of our sides of a Faulk-Nylander deal (to Toronto and to Nylander's camp). Give Nylander a decent deal. Give Toronto what it takes with a few names off the table to make Faulk the key piece on our end. Pretty much any prospect not currently on the Canes roster (ironically possibly not Fox) could be thrown in IMO, and we could easily part with one of our two second rounders. I know some think Faulk is worth more than that, but the market to date suggests not.

 

65 point forwards are not that easy to find. That is a top 50 player. Nylander has been just off that twice way below his prime years. If we signed him for say 6 years, this is not a 32 yo UFA. Those are all prime years, in fact the last years should be the best ones in terms of age/prime.

 

This team would be set with only long term goalie as an issue. The D would be set with 2 serious prospects in addition. The forwards would be set with at least 5 serious prospects. Just find a goalie, set it and forget it. 

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8 minutes ago, remkin said:

Frankly Faulk is blocking good young D men

 

Our good young Dmen haven't exactly seized the day

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36 minutes ago, remkin said:

I hate to open up a potentially unpopular view on a deal that is a long ways from likely, but to me if we can move Faulk for Nylander, I'd be willing to do just about anything to make that move. I just think that moving Faulk on will hurt this team about as much as Nylander being out has hurt Toronto. Frankly Faulk is blocking good young D men and moving him is, in some ways a net positive and the final piece of moving away from the guys associated with lots of losing. Further, it means keeping Pesce in this scenario, who is IMHO far more valuable to us than Faulk. (Pesce even has 2 goals this year). 

 

Thus sweeten away on both of our sides of a Faulk-Nylander deal (to Toronto and to Nylander's camp). Give Nylander a decent deal. Give Toronto what it takes with a few names off the table to make Faulk the key piece on our end. Pretty much any prospect not currently on the Canes roster (ironically possibly not Fox) could be thrown in IMO, and we could easily part with one of our two second rounders. I know some think Faulk is worth more than that, but the market to date suggests not.

 

65 point forwards are not that easy to find. That is a top 50 player. Nylander has been just off that twice way below his prime years. If we signed him for say 6 years, this is not a 32 yo UFA. Those are all prime years, in fact the last years should be the best ones in terms of age/prime.

 

This team would be set with only long term goalie as an issue. The D would be set with 2 serious prospects in addition. The forwards would be set with at least 5 serious prospects. Just find a goalie, set it and forget it. 

 

No disagreement here on it being worthwhile for the Canes to bend over backwards to make a base Faulk package work in exchange for Nylander.  But if the Leafs have a round hole that needs to be filled (RH defensive d-man), and we're offering a square peg (Faulk), I'm guessing that the add on's would need to be so big that they might become the base for the trade, and Faulk somewhat of an add-on.  Which probably makes any Faulk - Nylander deal unpalatable to the Canes.   Now, that perspective is based on my take from some Leafs fans, perhaps Leafs management has a different take?  (I'm hoping)

Edited by LakeLivin

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2 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

It had to happen. I wonder who we call up

making forward room for a pesce for marner move!

 

I would assume McKegg or Poturalski if that move doesn't work out.

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Whether it was PK or RF to blame that's not an old regime move for sure. One way contract guy being likely sent down? Awesome, if a yute's better then him which they likely are that's awesome and it didn't take 60 games to make a decision.

 

Get to see what some roster movement does for team morale/productivity this year rather then sit and guess what if's.

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From the release

 

Quote

If Di Giuseppe clears waivers on Thursday at noon, the Hurricanes can assign him to the Charlotte Checkers of the American Hockey League at any point in the next 30 days (as long as he does not play in 10 or more games during that stretch).

 

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