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In-season trades and player moves

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8 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

Slavin is a team leading minus 10.

 

I'd love to hear the usual logic applied to explain this?

 

 

In the last few games, it seems his wicked defensive stick work hasn't been there.  It could be because he is being asked to press so deep with the forwards and is not in good position coming back.   And as TS implies, there may be some fatigue.

 

Let's hope there is not a secret injury.

Edited by wxray1

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17 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I'm not as cynical about that as some (read: you!). I don't question for a moment there are guys who do it, but Skinner was so good three and two seasons ago that it only made moving him even more transparently vindictive. One reason I like him is he's the hockey equivalent of Allen Iverson. Selfish, shoots too much, yadda yadda, but nobody looking objectively at his career can deny this: he maximized every gift he had and could singlehandedly take over a game. At 6 feet tall. Whatever ppl thought about his rap, his hair, his complaining to the refs, that is elite by any measure.

I didnt elaborate but my take was that in a contract year Skinner was going to prove his worth in a big way.He had 3 good years prior to this year and going big this year was going to further show the consistancy.I chuckle when I hear about last year being a horrific year mainly due to the +/-. 49 points on the third line ain't to shabby. All the talk about Nylander,we already had one he was just a left winger.Watch him go over 60 points this year and his pay day arrives.At this point in their careers,Skinner is more of a goal scorer which is still needed desperately. Imagine Skinner and Nylander on this lineup and we make a serious playoff move.

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Since his name has been on the trading block for a long time, and I've been a critic, I'll put this here. To my eye Justin Faulk has taken a major step in the right direction this season. Yes, there have been bad pinches, but no more than Hamilton and probably a couple of others. Yes, there have been some startlingly bad turnovers in the D zone. But those will happen with his high risk style of play. The key is to limit them, and they seem significantly limited so far this season. At the same time some things Faulk does well, (moving the puck and puck possession for two), have seemed very good to my untrained eye.

 

The bomb is not going in that much, but the other aspects of his game overall look very solid to me. There may have been one, but I can't remember any undressing by a forward either. I'm not saying his plus 4 is proof of this, but it does agree. 

 

I'm still wary, since I've seen Faulk start other bad seasons this way, but he seems to have cleaned up his game a lot. If we end up trading Pesce, it will be even more important that he can keep this up. 

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Here's a sort of interesting interview with Waddell and Toronto media (Toronto TSN). Funny game of cat and mouse having them try to pry things out of Waddell. But to me the good line was Waddell saying that we know we don't score goals and we have been talking to lots of teams about offensive players. It's also obvious that we are very much in on a potential deal for Nylander.

 

http://chumam.streamon.fm/listen-pl-11753?smc=89

 

Also when asked why we don't throw an offer sheet at Nylander, his response was that we could easily be a lottery team again ? and don't want to trade out picks. I think it was a coy way to side step the question, and I guess it's true, but still...

 

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I think you'd have to go into the 8-10 mil bracket to keep the Leafs from matching and 2 1st's, 2nd and a 3rd is a painful bounty on top of an overpayment. 6-8.1 mil is too matchable and then you'll have ****** off the Leafs and won't get anything from them when they have to dump someone.

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1 hour ago, gocanes0506 said:

Faulk’s bomb is rarely hitting the net, needless to say going in.  So much, i wish he would stop shooting the puck.

 

I don't understand. Faulk is leading our Dmen in points. When he shoots his shots are getting through. If a forward can't tip them, or screen a shot, or go get a high wide shot then is it Faulk or the forwards fault. Maybe a little of both. His passes and shots are getting through. I hope he can net more goals but I don't think after you think about it you would really want him to stop shooting.

 

Same with Hamilton, you want these guys to shoot

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3 hours ago, slapshot02 said:

Watch him go over 60 points this year and his pay day arrives.At this point in their careers,Skinner is more of a goal scorer which is still needed desperately. Imagine Skinner and Nylander on this lineup and we make a serious playoff move.

He's on pace for 91. Not too shabby indeed :)

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14 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Ummm, he's on the ice more than anyone else, and our goalies suck?

 

And he's overdue for his "sophomore slump" by two years (in his sophomore year, he was +23)?

 

And nine of those -10 have come in the last five games, -5 between the LV (-2, and 26 minutes on ice) and St. Louis (-3, 24 mins) games alone?

 

 

I remember some line about others having better +\- despite overcoming the same odds and situations. Lol

 

I’m just teasing you.  Just like Faulk’s numbers, I’m not going to crucify Slavin’s. I’ve always said that was a team stat, because so much goes into account when a player has bad, or great plus minus stats.  He’ll be alright.

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14 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Ummm, he's on the ice more than anyone else, and our goalies suck?

 

And he's overdue for his "sophomore slump" by two years (in his sophomore year, he was +23)?

 

And nine of those -10 have come in the last five games, -5 between the LV (-2, and 26 minutes on ice) and St. Louis (-3, 24 mins) games alone?

 

 

I'm not attempting to crucify our best defenseman, I just think it's odd to see him at -10.  Just reaching out to the experts for some clarification. :)

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2 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

Just reaching out to the experts for some clarification

 

Now I was going to take a stab at this until you asked for expert clarification.

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Found this

Quote

This is sometimes news to those that use plus/minus as a stat. The number is not exclusive to 5v5, or even strength. The plus/minus statistic includes all even strength goals, all goals with either goaltender pulled (as hockey views goalie pulled as even strength), and short handed goals.

Quote

 

The skew is increased further by empty nets. Pulling the goalie is a desperation tactic, that increases the chance of scoring while also increasing the chance of a goal against even more.

This means that players who typically play with the lead and the opposition’s goaltender pulled are more likely to garner pluses than minuses over the long run. Players who are playing from behind and have their own goalie pulled are the opposite.

 

 

Quote

Anything plus/minus tries to do, there is something else that does it better.

 

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+/- was never meant as more than a snapshot of one's presence on the ice when goals were scored, as an indication of how their presence influences team success overall. And while it is generally true that guys on winning teams have positive numbers and those on losing teams don't, that's simply not always the case. 

 

What I found (and still find) indisputable is that when two of your D corps have amassed a higher minus rating than the other four combined, something is clearly wrong. Last year Hanifin and Faulk did just that, and were generally terrible, as anyone's (objective) eye test confirmed.

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SPECTOR’S NOTE:

Quote

Hurricanes: Have the depth in defensemen and other assets (including salary-cap room) to tempt the Leafs but of late it sounds like Waddell could be looking elsewhere for a scoring forward. He’ll likely keep tabs on Nylander but I think he’s got other targets in mind.

 

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With Vasilevskiy out, the Lightning should be on hunt for goaltending

 

 

If there’s one team that seems like an obvious fit, it’s the Carolina Hurricanes. Included in their goaltending surplus, the Canes have two on the verge of unrestricted free agency — both of whom could conceivably squeeze into Tampa Bay’s tight payroll dynamic.

Petr Mrazek and Curtis McElhinney, while both performing at a level near or below Domingue under similar circumstances, have proven to be capable in spurts. Mrazek in particular is a fascinating candidate, given that he bet on himself with the Hurricanes on a one-year deal and would have the stage to prove his worth on a short run as the starter in Tampa.

 

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2 hours ago, OBXer said:

 

SPECTOR’S NOTE:

Hurricanes: Have the depth in defensemen and other assets (including salary-cap room) to tempt the Leafs but of late it sounds like Waddell could be looking elsewhere for a scoring forward. He’ll likely keep tabs on Nylander but I think he’s got other targets in mind.

 

I'm starting to catch on. It sure sounds like this person just listened to the interview I posted above on TSN Toronto. It's pretty much what he said there. I mean, I could have said the same thing after hearing that interview...Hmm, maybe I could figure out how to get paid for this..

 

As to the actual quote, getting the word back to Toronto that we are pursuing other options is good negotiating. Every time I here Nylander now, I hear Carolina. "I say, Nylader, you say?" "Carolina!". This may give Toronto the impression that they have a done deal with us and can take Nylander to the wire and fall back on us if they can't work it out. Need to keep them guessing a bit more.

 

And finally, as I mentioned in the post with the link to the Waddell interview, it is good to hear that our brass know we need offense and are out there beating the bushes for it. Of course it doesn't matter if they can't make a deal. Sort of like a lot of shots and no goals.

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The Fourth Period: The Carolina Hurricanes continue to look for offense.

 

The Hurricanes seem willing to include Brett Pesce in a trade for William Nylander, and as reported earlier this month, have spoken with Nylander’s camp about what a potential contract could look like. Other players in a potential Hurricanes-Maple Leafs trade have been discussed.

 

I am thinking this is the first time that I've seen us as "willing" to include Pesce, though admittedly it says "seem" willing. 

 

Same source:

 

The Hurricanes are also looking for a goaltender, with GM Don Waddell exploring options there.

 

This is also the first indication that the committee is not sold on our tandem or trio. 

 

Both of these are, to me, good signs that we are not just sitting around hoping this group becomes a playoff team this year.

 

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I just hope we make whatever moves necessary before it’s too late. We need offensive help before the end of November.

 

The Pens, Kings, Rangers, and Oilers have broken the trade ice, Strome being swapped for Spooner earlier today.

 

Edited by SuckaPunchd

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I know the whole current Slavin +/- topic is part of a strange Slavin vs Faulk vendetta or something, but i'll say this - Slavin hasn't looked as good to my eyes this season as he did the previous 3, and voila, this is the worst +/- of his career.  Meanwhile Faulk has looked much better to my eyes this season than he ever has before, and voila, this is the best +/- of his.  Obviously i know all the caveats about the +/- stat, but it is perhaps a vague coincidence i think.

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9 hours ago, caniac_fan said:

With Vasilevskiy out, the Lightning should be on hunt for goaltending

If there’s one team that seems like an obvious fit, it’s the Carolina Hurricanes. Included in their goaltending surplus, the Canes have two on the verge of unrestricted free agency — both of whom could conceivably squeeze into Tampa Bay’s tight payroll dynamic.

Petr Mrazek and Curtis McElhinney, while both performing at a level near or below Domingue under similar circumstances, have proven to be capable in spurts. Mrazek in particular is a fascinating candidate, given that he bet on himself with the Hurricanes on a one-year deal and would have the stage to prove his worth on a short run as the starter in Tampa.

 

Can't trade McElhinney since we picked him up off of waivers, so that leaves Mrazek. 

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14 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Can't trade McElhinney since we picked him up off of waivers, so that leaves Mrazek. 

It is stunning to me that given our goaltending woes of recent years, anyone would suggest we have a “surplus” of goaltending. I’d say we have 3 goalies who have all played passable games at times, but none that jump out as a potential target to be a long term fill-in for a true SC challenger.

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Can't trade McElhinney since we picked him up off of waivers, so that leaves Mrazek. 

If no other club claimed when TOR waived him, we can absolutely trade him. If others did, we must offer him to them. Nice explainer here. (A TBL fan site, as it happens.)

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