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In-season trades and player moves

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58 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Wait to you see what Teuvo Teravainen and Aho will request. Ferland,Williams Martinook also due. Decision on Mrazek and McE. Tom's money belt will get smaller in the off season. 

 

If TT and Aho don't start playing like first liners and scoring goals, we're looking at under $5 million for TT and under $7 million for Aho. 😑 Right now, the only players deserving a significant raise next year are Ferland and Martinook. 

Edited by spyglass88

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I'm changing my answer on the Nylander contract:

Cap Hit: year 1: $10.2m year 2-6: $7m  $6.96m (CapFriendly updated it)
Actual compensation: $7.36m per $7.35 per

 

For the wealthy Leafs the $7m cap hit is the figure that's most important. For other teams, the $7.36 figure is the one that's most important as RFAs will try to use a Nylander AAV of $7.5m per as a comp, but that teams can legitimately argue the $7.36m per figure.  

 

The math if anyone is interested::

 Leafs cap hit after this year (which is what matters most to the Leafs) is $6.996m per as per CapFriendly. Calling it anything other than $7m makes no sense unless it's to settle a bet you had with someone or you're a hardcore pedant, lol.

As far as actual money: Nylander missed 26 of 82 games = 31.7% of the season before he was signed.  The Leafs structured the contract in a way that Nylander would lose ($10m x .317) = $3.17m in salary this season. $45m (total contract) - $3.17m = $41.83m total dollars received.  Nylander is actually only playing 5.683 seasons, so $41.83m divided by 5.683 years = an average of $7.36m per.

 

EDIT: someone pointed out that time lost is calculated by number of days, not number of games.  So Nylander missed 60/185 days = .324, drops his actual compensation to $7.35m per. :grin: 

Edited by LakeLivin
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Thanks for the homework on this.  Correct me if I'm off base but it looks like Willy did pretty good, and will be traded when the Leaves have to sink all their $$$$ in 4 players?

 

Also, I am so seeing a lockout as RFA's are chewing up cap space.  Yuk.

Edited by coastal_caniac

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16 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

 

Also, I am so seeing a lockout as RFA's are chewing up cap space.  Yuk.

 

Once again, the owners will want to be saved from themselves.

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1 hour ago, spyglass88 said:

If TT and Aho don't start playing like first liners and scoring goals, we're looking at under $5 million for TT and under $7 million for Aho. 

You left out, "and them on another team for more money."

 

They're Peas and Carrots, the same way Pesce and Slavin are. If Dundon won't pay 'em somebody will. And at this point, I have little faith that PK2 will.

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3 hours ago, slapshot02 said:

Wait to you see what Teuvo Teravainen and Aho will request. Ferland,Williams Martinook also due. Decision on Mrazek and McE. Tom's money belt will get smaller in the off season. 

 

He's got a money belt? Amazing, wouldn't have guessed that .

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Nylanders contract .     This is why we can't have nice things , or be a contender ,  or we might be looking at another lockout .  About those signing Bonuses .  no way carolina would have gone for that crap  !   good luck toronto .  We all know   their fan's  grow money on trees .

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15 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

Thanks for the homework on this.  Correct me if I'm off base but it looks like Willy did pretty good, and will be traded when the Leaves have to sink all their $$$$ in 4 players?

 

Also, I am so seeing a lockout as RFA's are chewing up cap space.  Yuk.

 

I dunno, but if they don't gotta think things are going to be really tight for the Leafs when Marner and Matthews come due (and to a lesser extent Kapanen, especially given how he's played so far this season).  For possible relief, Gardner and Hainsey's contracts expire after this season ($4.5m and $3m per) and I've heard some Leafs fans talk about dumping both for cheaper options.  If they can make it through next season, Marleau's $6.25m drops off.  Dubas has said he was committed to making it work for all 4 forwards, but wonder if the presumably contentious negotiations affected his stance on that? 

 

I'm also wondering if decisions might be heavily influenced by play.  Say Kapanen keeps it up but Nylander doesn't tear it up when he returns;, does that make Nylander easier to give up for Cap relief and D help?  Or, with Nylander coming back and Kapanen starting out so strongly this season, does Kapanen's value rise enough to bring back say a middle pair d-man?  What if the Leafs have a serious injury to one of their top 4 defensemen this season?  They're presumably looking at a Cup run, would that prompt the Leafs to move Nylander during the season?   [Nylander would cost an acquiring team $8.76m for the remainder of this season and $9m next season as his contract is front loaded; just $6m per for the last 4 years).

 

As the proverb goes, I'm thinking the Leafs are about to "live in interesting times".  :letssee:

Edited by LakeLivin

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The more i look at this contract  the more i worry about a possible   lockout  that could take place come 2020  .   The  contract itself is  what it is but with the signing bonuses  , that Guaranteed Cash up front is what small market teams  will always have trouble  competing with  .   Sure bigger market  teams will always have that advantage due to companies buying out season tickets to  hand out to their employees  for raffles   or  gift of some sort   meanwhile  small market teams  that can barley scrap by like the canes   don't have a nearly nightly sold out house .  and it goes deeper than that .  Original 6 teams sell well the  merchandising  or other promotions . so they will always have a leg up  over teams  cause they have a constant flow of cash coming in .   and then there  are the partners that donate to the those teams  .  There is a Cba   to sorta help  but does it really ?   does it really make that much of a difference  ?  I dont think so ,  i think the consensus is that you hope greedy players turn out to play like crap  so that  their play drags those richer teams down  , that's what has always happened in the past  before the salary cap  .   I just hope this contract does not send the wrong message to our guys that are valuable to the team .  i know  where  we are in terms of the cap   and i know who Dundon  is .   

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I'm with several now, including you OBXer, saying now what? Seems we were gifted the #2 pick (Svech), and for a bit there was great hope, fanned by the Nylander fires, that fortunes were turning at PNC? Don't get me wrong as we do sit higher in our division than for last few years at this juncture in the year, and seem to possible be turning the corner in the goalie situation, but a scorer in addition to Ferland and Aho surely would be helpful.This is just me talking now but I surely would like to know how solid our attempt at going after Nylander was, or did Waddell bow out early? The Lindholm/Hanafin and to some extent, Skinner trades I can live with. Zykov on waivers I am troubled by, not that he is in their same league by any means, but he brings an element that is, and has been a scarce commodity on this team, or seems to have last year before being injured, NET FRONT PRESENCE? Where did that go? 

 

IDK, maybe there's someone else out there that could be had at a reasonable price?

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So you can live with getting rid of your most talented pure goal scorer in a salary dump for absolutely no help in return, when you are a team desperate for goal scoring.  However, you are bent out of shape with losing Zykov,who has proved nothing, on waivers?

 

You know how you fill a building and sell some tickets?  You spend some money on players and win some freaking games.  If the team is winning  for 4-5 years straight and not filling up the building, then the market doesn’t deserve the team. Simple as that.  

 

However, when you don’t make the playoffs for 10 years in a row, don’t spend any money to try and improve the roster, don’t want to spend money to hire a GM, trade away fan favorites players for no reason in an obvious salary dump...then don’t complain about not selling tickets  

 

 

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Nylander contract biggest over payment over hyped contract I've seen.  Dude gets 7 mil for two 20 goal seasons?  Bah, hope Toronto gets taught a lesson with this one.  I mean, I remember when we wouldn't give Eric Cole a raise form 3.5mil to 4mil for scoring 25 goals a year.  Of course that was a while ago and we have always been cheap as dirt but still.   What this contract may have done is raised everyones pay day from here on out.  "Well Nylander got 7 mil for scoring 20 goals so I should get 5mil for scoring 15 right"  Lets see if TD keeps up. 

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2 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

I'm with several now, including you OBXer, saying now what? Seems we were gifted the #2 pick (Svech), and for a bit there was great hope, fanned by the Nylander fires, that fortunes were turning at PNC? Don't get me wrong as we do sit higher in our division than for last few years at this juncture in the year, and seem to possible be turning the corner in the goalie situation, but a scorer in addition to Ferland and Aho surely would be helpful.This is just me talking now but I surely would like to know how solid our attempt at going after Nylander was, or did Waddell bow out early? The Lindholm/Hanafin and to some extent, Skinner trades I can live with. Zykov on waivers I am troubled by, not that he is in their same league by any means, but he brings an element that is, and has been a scarce commodity on this team, or seems to have last year before being injured, NET FRONT PRESENCE? Where did that go? 

 

IDK, maybe there's someone else out there that could be had at a reasonable price?

 

From all reports building up to yesterday, Waddell was clearly involved in trying to acquire Nylander.  I've never heard Carolina in the media actively pursuing a player to that extent.  Combine that with Waddell clearly stating this team needs offense, it is encouraging that our FO at least notices a problem.  Not like in years past where the counter-argument was "We don't need offense, we have 1 30 goal scorer."  As far as what's available, who knows.  Kovalchuck's a name being thrown out there, Panarin, Stone, Duchene, St Louis might be moving some players.  So far, all the trades that have happened this season have came out of nowhere, so who's to say.

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It seems to me that the only way that we are gonna score goals is if we buy them. Spend the money for crying out loud. I do believe that we have a decent support system for an elite scorer, and that support system has kept us in things. Barely. But that is gonna keep us from serious post season joy if the system has nothing to support.

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35 minutes ago, dreadedlyfe said:

It seems to me that the only way that we are gonna score goals is if we buy them. Spend the money for crying out loud. I do believe that we have a decent support system for an elite scorer, and that support system has kept us in things. Barely. But that is gonna keep us from serious post season joy if the system has nothing to support.

Whats sad is that:  J. Staal should be scoring more goals, Aho should be scoring more goals, TT should be scoring more goals.  these are guys that we rely on to put up 20-30goals each and they are of course having the Carolina slump that every Carolina player has when they are here. Than you got Svech who we all really thought was going to come into the league like Matthews, Eichel, Laine and light it up as a rookie but he is not.   As bad as we need help, if everyone put up the numbers we expected them too than we would be almost OK.  Is the whole team going to have their  "career worst in goals scored"?  Sheesh. 

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1 minute ago, Danimal38 said:

Whats sad is that:  J. Staal should be scoring more goals, Aho should be scoring more goals, TT should be scoring more goals.  these are guys that we rely on to put up 20-30goals each and they are of course having the Carolina slump that every Carolina player has when they are here. Than you got Svech who we all really thought was going to come into the league like Matthews, Eichel, Laine and light it up as a rookie but he is not.   As bad as we need help, if everyone put up the numbers we expected them too than we would be almost OK.  Is the whole team going to have their  "career worst in goals scored"?  Sheesh. 

 

Disagree and here is why:

 

TT-Aho-Ferland

 

This is our only NHL line.  The other 3 of our lines would be 3rd or 4th line on every other team in the NHL.  This team is full of fringe NHL players.  McGinn, PDG, Foegele, Wallmark, Bishop.  One of these guys is doing 2nd line time.  Teams can just shut down our 1 and only line.  The cold hard truth is that this team would have been way better with Skinner still on it.

 

Management trades away the only 30 goal scorer.  Then we have goal scoring problems because teams can just shut down 1 line.

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14 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

Disagree and here is why:

 

TT-Aho-Ferland

 

This is our only NHL line.  The other 3 of our lines would be 3rd or 4th line on every other team in the NHL.  This team is full of fringe NHL players.  McGinn, PDG, Foegele, Wallmark, Bishop.  One of these guys is doing 2nd line time.  Teams can just shut down our 1 and only line.  The cold hard truth is that this team would have been way better with Skinner still on it.

 

Management trades away the only 30 goal scorer.  Then we have goal scoring problems because teams can just shut down 1 line.

Not sure what you disagree with I feel like we said the same thing.  If our "only NHL line"(your words) were living up to what we expected than Aho would be in the teens with goals, and TT would be right behind him.  Not the case at all.  And J. Staal hasn't scored a goal in what seems like 5 weeks. He should have at least 3-4 more by now.  And Svech was supposed to be our 2nd pick superstar but instead is a struggling 18yr old trying to hang with the big boys. He is doing a good job of it but so far no superstar rookie status.  If all the above was happening this team would have 15-20 more goals forward than they do.  It was a bad plan hoping all the above would happen and it did not.  Somehow we are still competing and in the mix so there is that.  If only the above 3-4 guys got a little bit hot than we might have a few winning streaks coming our way.   

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17 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

Even before he was traded I stated my belief that Skinner should have been retained as a "year long rental" unless he brought back players who could help obtain a playoff berth this year or some Grade A futures.  We got neither, and imo the committee blew that one big time, but my hunch is that it was more related to "team culture/ personalities" than finances.  I don't pretend to know what was up with Zykov but I have a feeling that there may be something more to the story than what has been publicly disclosed.  If not, that one is very puzzling, as well.

 

Having said that, imo the verdict is still out as to whether or not TD is willing to invest in players given the dearth of talent available as UFAs this past offseason.  Unless I missed something, other than Tavares (who we clearly weren't going to get), there really wasn't much worth going after.  We picked up deHaan at $4.5m; was there anyone else available that would have been worth investing in? 

 

Now, next season sees potential UFAs like Bobrovsky, Panarin, Stone, Duchene, Anders Lee, Pavelski, Skinner, Kevin Hayes, and more.  Even the ones that aren't realistic candidates for the Canes (Panarin, Skinner) could add to overall "supply" that hopefully reduces demand/cost for the rest of the lot.  So, if the committee held off spending last summer in order to save it for next summer, when there will likely be much better talent available, I see it as a smart long term move.  To me, it's next season that will determine how committed TD is to investing in talent, not this season.  Here's hoping . . . :crossfingers: :pray:

 

I just posted this over in the "In Season" thread, but maybe it fits better here?

Edited by LakeLivin

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

 

I just posted this over in the "In Season" thread, but maybe it fits better here?

Lake, your one comment 'team culture/personalities" together with my feeling that the support Skinner needs AND WE CAN'T SUPPLY, are the reason I made my previous statement, to which iceman11 has misconstrued. I thought we've beaten that horse to death but apparently there's some who will not concede that rather than blatant incompetence, there may have been some other factor(s) in play that we will never understand? Do I like it that we appear so "bumpkin" in the deal, no I extremely dislike it that we traded Skinner for peanuts and a 2nd round pick, but as I said, I can live with it believing its purpose was a honest attempt to better this team.

 

So now as to my 2nd point as to my thoughts on Zykov vs those on Skinner. If one can concede what I just stated above, that either background issues (team culture/personalities) or inability to supply Skinner with elements he needed to support his proclivities (or possibly both), than we have ample evidence of what we could have expected from him this year IN OUR SYSTEM. IMHO, Skinner for whatever reason was in burnout with this team. Could he have dug deeper since he was in a contract year, we'll never know, but undoubtedly Brind'Amour had seen enough. Should we have gotten more for him, unquestionably but thanks to our prior GM and a limiting movement clause, this GM was painted into a corner?

 

Now Zykov brings me angst, NOT BECAUSE he's anywhere near that level, but simply because it suggests impatience that possibly cost us a player who still has potential. So, in summary, in Skinner's case we had plenty of experience with his foibles and apparently the decision was made that it was time to go in a different direction. Zykov on the other hand has unexplored potential that likely could have been explored further? 

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