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In-season trades and player moves

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12 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

The more i look at this contract  the more i worry about a possible   lockout  that could take place come 2020  .   The  contract itself is  what it is but with the signing bonuses  , that Guaranteed Cash up front is what small market teams  will always have trouble  competing with  .   Sure bigger market  teams will always have that advantage due to companies buying out season tickets to  hand out to their employees  for raffles   or  gift of some sort   meanwhile  small market teams  that can barley scrap by like the canes   don't have a nearly nightly sold out house .  and it goes deeper than that .  Original 6 teams sell well the  merchandising  or other promotions . so they will always have a leg up  over teams  cause they have a constant flow of cash coming in .   and then there  are the partners that donate to the those teams  .  There is a Cba   to sorta help  but does it really ?   does it really make that much of a difference  ?  I dont think so ,  i think the consensus is that you hope greedy players turn out to play like crap  so that  their play drags those richer teams down  , that's what has always happened in the past  before the salary cap  .   I just hope this contract does not send the wrong message to our guys that are valuable to the team .  i know  where  we are in terms of the cap   and i know who Dundon  is .   

CFF, I agree that original 6 teams and a few big market/Canadian teams have a financial advantage. No matter what is written into the CBA, they will find a way to exploit that advantage, such as front end loading contracts like Nylander’s with signing bonuses. That’s why you look for an owner with deep pockets who can fund what it takes to become a successful team. Our new owner, by all accounts a billionaire, has chosen the cheap option to fill almost every position since he arrived. Was there any reason NO NHL team made Waddell a GM after Atlanta lost their team? Even PK only hired him to run the arena and ticket sales. RF was making hockey decisions. But once a team has success, the $$$ will follow. Pittsburgh was in bankruptcy before Lemieux and his group bought them. The Pens were almost relocated. A couple of fortuitous draft picks and ownership willing to spend some money, and the team has a new arena, Stanley Cups, a rabid fan base, and they are on national tv all the time. So to me, this is on Dundon. He has the money to make us more competitive if he will spend it.

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The thing about a trade is that you need a willing partner. Toronto was never really willing. They don't have the cap crunch yet, and when they do, then can make a trade then. They must not have thought the offered return was worth it, or Nylander may not have wanted to sign here, and they don't have to trade him yet. I am obviously one who really thought if we could somehow get this guy, we should and he could be transformative. But I do feel better that at least he wasn't traded to someone else. Same thing with UFA's. They have to want to come here. I'm glad DeHaan did, because he makes us better and better able to move a D man at least in theory, but clearly we were not on Tavares list. 

 

It's tough because we don't know what deals have been declined on our end, but it's clear we need to flip D for O. It's also clear these deals can be hard to find and make. And so, as with most of the Francis years, we wait.

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if kappanen  turns out to be a 30 goal scorer  he will be gone .   i dont know if he will be able to  but toronto will skate by for today but  i dont see it being a long term deal for them .   the cap will  BTFO in the end . 

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

The thing about a trade is that you need a willing partner. Toronto was never really willing. They don't have the cap crunch yet, and when they do, then can make a trade then. They must not have thought the offered return was worth it, or Nylander may not have wanted to sign here, and they don't have to trade him yet. I am obviously one who really thought if we could somehow get this guy, we should and he could be transformative. But I do feel better that at least he wasn't traded to someone else. Same thing with UFA's. They have to want to come here. I'm glad DeHaan did, because he makes us better and better able to move a D man at least in theory, but clearly we were not on Tavares list. 

 

It's tough because we don't know what deals have been declined on our end, but it's clear we need to flip D for O. It's also clear these deals can be hard to find and make. And so, as with most of the Francis years, we wait.

 

*For this team to relocate.

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4 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Lake, your one comment 'team culture/personalities" together with my feeling that the support Skinner needs AND WE CAN'T SUPPLY, are the reason I made my previous statement, to which iceman11 has misconstrued. I thought we've beaten that horse to death but apparently there's some who will not concede that rather than blatant incompetence, there may have been some other factor(s) in play that we will never understand? Do I like it that we appear so "bumpkin" in the deal, no I extremely dislike it that we traded Skinner for peanuts and a 2nd round pick, but as I said, I can live with it believing its purpose was a honest attempt to better this team.

 

So now as to my 2nd point as to my thoughts on Zykov vs those on Skinner. If one can concede what I just stated above, that either background issues (team culture/personalities) or inability to supply Skinner with elements he needed to support his proclivities (or possibly both), than we have ample evidence of what we could have expected from him this year IN OUR SYSTEM. IMHO, Skinner for whatever reason was in burnout with this team. Could he have dug deeper since he was in a contract year, we'll never know, but undoubtedly Brind'Amour had seen enough. Should we have gotten more for him, unquestionably but thanks to our prior GM and a limiting movement clause, this GM was painted into a corner?

 

Now Zykov brings me angst, NOT BECAUSE he's anywhere near that level, but simply because it suggests impatience that possibly cost us a player who still has potential. So, in summary, in Skinner's case we had plenty of experience with his foibles and apparently the decision was made that it was time to go in a different direction. Zykov on the other hand has unexplored potential that likely could have been explored further? 

 

So one would think on the surface. 

 

Given that, my only take is that it seems like there might have been something more involved than Zykov's play so far this year.  Did he have a bad attitude about being in the press box?  Some negative personal issues?  Does Roddy have a teenage daughter? (that's a JOKE people!!)

 

Maybe a combination of something we don't know, combined with his meh on -ice performance this season? Maybe they took another look at our players in Charlotte and figured there are enough that have a better chance of NHL success than Z that it was just time to move on?  I'm as surprised as everyone else and no one clear reason to just dump Z jumps out to me.  So I'm guessing it might be a combination of a bunch of things, none of which would lead them to jettison him in and of itself.

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On a Nylander trade:

 

  • Pesce was the Cane who most seemed like he might fit Toronto's needs well enough to form a base for a Nylander trade.  I wonder if his injury might have nixed any chance of that happening?
  • Nylander's contract is pretty funky.  Next season he gets an $8.3m signing bonus and only $700k in salary.  So if he were to be traded it would almost surely be before the Leafs pay his bonus (I think it's July 1st?).

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3 hours ago, remkin said:

The thing about a trade is that you need a willing partner. Toronto was never really willing. They don't have the cap crunch yet, and when they do, then can make a trade then. They must not have thought the offered return was worth it, or Nylander may not have wanted to sign here, and they don't have to trade him yet. I am obviously one who really thought if we could somehow get this guy, we should and he could be transformative. But I do feel better that at least he wasn't traded to someone else. Same thing with UFA's. They have to want to come here. I'm glad DeHaan did, because he makes us better and better able to move a D man at least in theory, but clearly we were not on Tavares list. 

 

It's tough because we don't know what deals have been declined on our end, but it's clear we need to flip D for O. It's also clear these deals can be hard to find and make. And so, as with most of the Francis years, we wait.

I never thought Nylander was coming here. Even if Toronto would have done a deal for Pesce, no way we even think of doing that unless Nylander is extended. And if Nylander didn’t want to come here, he just had to make it clear he would not re-sign. Deep down, I think everyone suspected all along he would stay in Toronto. They just played chicken long enough to get creative with the deal and front end load the money. But unless the cap really jumps, Toronto is going to have to part ways with one of their young offensive stars in a year or two. I don’t think Matthews signs for a penny less than Tavares got, and maybe he’ll want more. Add in Nylander’s deal, plus what Marner may want, and maybe a chunk for Kapenen, and they could have half their cap tied up in 5 players. But that’s down the road, and somebody will get moved for sure. But in the meantime, for a year or two, they have as good a shot at the Cup as anybody. Nowadays, I think that’s just the way you play it. 

 

For or the Canes, I hope our “braintrust” is working on something to get us some offensive help, and soon. Surely they weren’t just locked in on Nylander. I see scores around the league and see teams scoring 5 or 6 goals, and 25 games in, when have we done that? We are hanging in with low scoring, but it’s not really very entertaining, and I think back to last year when we hung around the cut line until one serious losing street killed the season. We’re still not sure what we’ll get from Mrazek, and McE has no history to show he can sustain what he’s been doing if we roll him out 50 games. We need offensive help now. We have a surplus of defensemen now, with Bean hopefully getting close, and maybe the possibility of signing Fox. We have good prospects (well, one less than we had last week, but still), and picks. Before this season gets away from us, our “committee” needs to get some proven scoring help. My understanding is that Dundon fired Francis because he didn’t get help we obviously needed. DW or someone needs to prove they can get a deal done where Ronnie failed to. 

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Honestly I've begun wondering what it would take to pry Kopitar from the Kings, he's 31 still great but if they choose to rebuild it could be years before they finish the rebuild and where will he be at that point? I'm sure we could put together a Rebuild Starter pack for them.

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44 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

Honestly I've begun wondering what it would take to pry Kopitar from the Kings, he's 31 still great but if they choose to rebuild it could be years before they finish the rebuild and where will he be at that point? I'm sure we could put together a Rebuild Starter pack for them.

 Slavin.

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Something needs to happen soon.  This is playing out just like last season when it was blatantly obvious that something was off and a trade needed to be made.  I hope they learned from last year and pull the trigger on a deal before it’s too late.

 

if they are nervous to make a deal, they should realize they can’t look much worse than they already do for the stupid Skinner trade they made.  

 

So just go for it.  I’m sick of watching the same movie for the last 10 years.  Change something up because what we have is just not working.  Offensively inept.  

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1 hour ago, bluedevil58 said:

 Slavin.

That will never happen, book it. Why would Waddell do something so utterly ridiculous as to weaken the one area we are strong in for the other, unless as you constantly propose, to move the team? 

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1 hour ago, KJUNKANE said:

That will never happen, book it. Why would Waddell do something so utterly ridiculous as to weaken the one area we are strong in for the other, unless as you constantly propose, to move the team? 

 

You're being unrealistic then.  That would be the price for a true 1C.

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I will just also put this here. This team is #1 in shots, and #29 in goals. Not a stretch to predict we're dead last in shooting percentage. We have less finish than we have Finnish. 

 

As expected we have a lot of guys in the bottom section of the shooting percentage stats. There are 87 D men with at least one goal. of those, the lowest shooting percentage at #87 in Justin Faulk. But DeHaan is #79, and Hamilton is #70. DeHaan doesn't take many shots, but Faulk fires at will, and Hamilton make Faulk look hesitant. Hamilton and Faulk are #1 and #2 on the team in shots. They have 176 shots between them. They have 4 goals between them. 

 

Personally, I like Faulk's game this year, but the low shooting percentage showed up for long stretches last year too, and all those bombs from these two may not be our best option all the time.

 

On the forward side our best shooters are Ferland and....Martinook. Look, I've been hugely pleased with Martinook. This guy has a lot of really really good aspects to his game. But if Martinook and Ferland are your best shooters? 

 

There may be system issues, but we've had this problem for years now and multiple coaches, even multiple GMs. My opinion is that we don't have enough game breaking forward talent, and even the offense from the back is more Faulk and so far Hamilton just taking a million shots. 

 

On that note, I think we NEED to sign Fox, whatever that takes. This guy appears to be a truly dynamic, offense producing d man. We need that.

 

This team needs one more game breaking forward. We've needed it for a while. Aho is on the verge. Svech will become it, and I think Necas too. Heck maybe even Foegele finds that next level at some point. But for this year, we don't have enough IMO. I hope I'm wrong and this team starts to pick it up. But that's my opinion. Too bad about Nylander. 

 

Waddell needs to keep calling.

 

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1 hour ago, cclifford10 said:

Two top 6 forwards that are having big seasons and could help us are Skinner and Lindholm....sorry, could't help it.

 

We wouldnt have Ferland without Lindholm gone and we Skinner wouldnt have half the goals on the 3rd/4th line.  So there is that.  

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My two cents in all of this, is why cant our existing players develop offensive skills.. Aho / T.T. / J.Willy / Staal / McGinn / Hamilton should all have 10 plus goals a piece or some form of consistency... can we not coach these guys?  on paper we are far better than years past and no doubt these guys have been decent scorers, what is the real deal....

Edited by PamlicoPuck

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8 minutes ago, PamlicoPuck said:

My two cents in all of this, is why cant our existing players develop offensive skills.. Aho / T.T. / J.Willy / Staal / McGinn / Hamilton should all have 10 plus goals a piece or some form of consistency... can we not coach these guys?  on paper we are far better than years past and no doubt these guys have been decent scorers, what is the real deal....

 

At 26 games in, 32% of the season is gone.  So it is simple, multiply what they have by 3.  So if those guys all had 10 goals they would all be on a 30 goal pace.  I'm sure we should have one or two but not six 30 goal scorers.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would like six of them (or 10 of them) but let's be realistic.    

 

We have one right now, Ferland, who incidentally leads the team in shooting percentage so he may not keep it up either.

 

I see basically no D scoring, and little secondary scoring, and yeah, would like more from the 6 million dollar man, come on Staal Austin, use some of that bionic shite.

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5 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

That will never happen, book it. Why would Waddell do something so utterly ridiculous as to weaken the one area we are strong in for the other, unless as you constantly propose, to move the team? 

Because he already has...

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