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In-season trades and player moves

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4 hours ago, cclifford10 said:

 

It's just as tough at forward.  You have to receive breakout passes on the backhand, which usually costs a little bit of speed thorough the neutral zone.  It also puts your primary passing option on the backhand which is not ideal.  The biggest issue is that you have to cutback to shoot on the forehand.  Europeans usually love it, but that's because there is more open ice.  In the NHL, it is much easier to defend a player on the off wing.  All the defenseman has to do is play the middle.  The only options left are cutting into traffic, a short side backhander, or a weak snapshot from a tough angle.  These all become low percentage shots.  Doesn't take teams long to figure out that to defend the breakout, they need to force the outlet pass to the right and take away the middle.  Look how many more chances Svech is getting since he moved to LW.  

 

We need some right shot wingers.  I wonder if we could get Stone from Ottawa if we took Ryan off their hands?  He's actually still a decent winger.  His contract is just really bad, which we can afford.  

Gonna have to agree to disagree. Clearly we've both played and view it differently, but I do think it's more a matter of the player's personal preference. 

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Speaking of trading Dmen of a scorer we haven't seen a drop off in D play with Pesce on the mend. We certainly have a stock pile. While it would have to bring in a prime player and would hate to see Brett go the last week or so has proven him more expendable then I previously thought. Wonder what kind of return we could get on him? 

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

The problem with Faulk's trade value imo is that Kjun is correct when he alludes to perceptions and "the time it takes to turn around a battleship" principle. Faulk has been so bad defensively the past several years that even if his turnaround is permanent, it may take a while before other teams trust that change enough for it to show up in his trade value. Before this season I was of the mind that the Canes would be best off moving Faulk for the best offer we could get, regardless of what it was (I did think that Faulk had some value and would bring back more than just a bag of pucks).  But now I'm wondering if he may be of more value playing for the Canes than what he would bring back in a trade, at least until he's consistent enough to turn around some of the negative perceptions that I've got to believe are out there.   

I'd rather have Pesce any day, but Faulk's improved D this year along with his excellent puck moving would have allowed the entertainment of trading Pesce if the right partner came along. I agree with your battleship slow turn analogy too. I'd rather trade Faulk, but the offered return has probably been too low. Unless GM's are watching Faulk carefully this year and buying the new Faulk, it suggests that Pesce might be the guy to begrudgingly trade, since he will bring more back, and hope Faulk can keep this up.

 

BTW I don't think we need Faulk to be dominant offensively. We have Hamilton for that, and hopefully soon Fox.

 

I wonder if Faulk is just getting back and turning and skating better, and taking less risks with the neutral zone pinches. That was to my eye the problem and it seems to be so much better, that it just seems he must have adjusted as well as skating better.

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Faulk, Hamilton and Slavin all have similar numbers this year. If one is a bum then all three are bums.

 

You don't suppose part of Faulk's improved play isn't because he has a reliable,veteran Dman in deHann sorta like when he was paired with Hainsey instead of rookies yutes trying to find their way.

 

Oh never mind just trade the bum and add him to the list of Staal, Lindholm, Skinner etc, etc. I know we can find another punching bag

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4 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

A DEFENSEMEN with a career +/- of - 105 is not going to return a savior for this team.  I am sorry but Faulk is just not good.

Faulk by himself is not going to get a quality 1C. I believe Faulk has raised his stock price this year and with the addition of another player it possibly could get us our need. We certainly have a lot of options on our current roster and on the checkers to add to a Faulk deal. This time of year is almost impossible to get more firepower as we are only 1/3 into the season and most teams are still looking to stay in the hunt.

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27 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

 

Oh never mind just trade the bum and add him to the list of Staal, Lindholm, Skinner etc, etc. I know we can find another punching bag

We are always able to play hangman with another player.

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39 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Faulk, Hamilton and Slavin all have similar numbers this year. If one is a bum then all three are bums.

 

You don't suppose part of Faulk's improved play isn't because he has a reliable,veteran Dman in deHann sorta like when he was paired with Hainsey instead of rookies yutes trying to find their way.

 

Oh never mind just trade the bum and add him to the list of Staal, Lindholm, Skinner etc, etc. I know we can find another punching bag

 

Ruh?  I get how you might feel that people have alluded to Faulk as a bum in the past, but outside of our resident Eeyore, seems like almost everyone else here has acknowledged Faulk's significantly improved defensive play this year, even past critics.  Is it possible that your perception of other people's negative perception of Faulk is also subject to the "turning battleship" principle, lol? :)

 

While deHaan might be helping some of Faulk's improvement statistically, my biggest past criticism of his defensive play grew from the eye test.  I saw way too many individual gaffs that were independent of anybody else on the ice at that time.  Now, certain controversial stats (I'm looking at you, +- !) might be used to support the eye test, but that was the direction for me, not the other way around. 

 

This year, not only am I seeing an absence of those gaffs, I'm seeing a number of excellent defensive plays. And, lo and behold, certain controversial stats are backing up what my eyes are currently seeing, lol.

Edited by LakeLivin
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I know y'all think I'm crazy, but I still to find it interesting that Pesce is all better one game after Nylander signs. If he was Toronto's ask (and we agreed, making him their safety net) for a deal, it'd make sense that they've have wanted him inactive until the deal was done.

 

But whatever.

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Just now, LakeLivin said:

 

Ruh?  I get how you might feel that people have alluded to Faulk as a bum in the past, but outside of our resident Eeyore, seems like almost everyone else here has acknowledged Faulk's significantly improved defensive play this year, even past critics.  Is it possible that your perception of people's negative perception of Faulk is also subject to the "turning battleship" principle, lol? :)

 

While deHaan might be helping some of Faulk's improvement statistically, my biggest past criticism of his defensive play grew from the eye test.  I saw way too many individual gaffs that were independent of anybody else on the ice at that time.  Now, certain controversial stats (I'm looking at you, +- !) might be used to support the eye test, but that was the direction for me, not the other way around. 

 

This year, not only am I seeing an absence of those gaffs, I'm seeing a number of excellent defensive plays. And, lo and behold, certain controversial stats are backing up my current eye test, lol.

And he's looking better on offense. Closing on net until he runs out of ice before shooting (instead of trying to blast pucks thru shinguards), using the wrist shot, etc. If he'd just stop trying to go glove side high, he'd have more goals by now. 

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13 minutes ago, caniac_fan said:

Interesting article from James O'Brien (NBC sports)

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/heat-ice-cold-hurricanes-211547215.html

Great line:

"By Hurricanes terms, McElhinney has been vintage Dominik Hasek with a side of non-irate Patrick Roy."

 

That alone was worth the read, but it's heartening to see that we're not the only ones saying (1) the PP sucks, partly because Hamilton is long overdue to replace Faulk on the top unit and partly because Willy's diminished skills have obsoleted him in that part of the game; (2) that burying Svech on lower lines makes no sense; and (3) it's time to move an RHD, and Faulk is probably the best candidate.

 

Thanks for posting, caniac_fan.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
clarity
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15 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

(3) it's time to move an RHD, and Faulk is probably the best candidate.

 

I suspect Faulk is still the most likely candidate in a trade. We went out to get Hamilton I'm sure to replace Faulk if and when he was moved. Hamilton is a carbon copy of the Faulk style only better by rankings. There will be teams at deadline that are looking for right handed Dman. Faulks improved play has I suspect given us pause in the best way to handle a trade.

 

Pesce, Hamilton and TVR shouldn't be ruled out depending on the trade return. Hamilton hasn't lived up to his billing although lately it appears to me his is about to break out.

 

 

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I found this fascinating:

 

 

Using BPM, which tries to improve upon points, to look at rookies.

Svechnikov is a sleeping giant. He's generating tones of shots, takeaways and shot assists.

DthKnKRUUAA_-nj.jpg

 

 

 

Based on BPM, Svech is the best rookie.

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Ha! I knew someone would ask before I could look it up! :). It looks like a new attempt to weight goals and primary assists higher than secondary assists, but not throw those out entirely, but also factors in several other stats including giveaways/takeaways and others to predict future goals from a player. 

 

I freely admit this is well above my math paygrade. This is the explanation page.

 

https://hockeyandstuff.weebly.com/chaces-blog/improving-public-counting-stats-by-combining-them

 

It may be a lot of garbage in garbage out, or may be useful. I'll let our math experts opine. I just like seeing one of our guys at the top of the list, and seeing a stat that suggests Svech is better than some might think. 

 

Seems to argue for putting Svech with another elite player at some point too.

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1 hour ago, OBXer said:

 

I suspect Faulk is still the most likely candidate in a trade. We went out to get Hamilton I'm sure to replace Faulk if and when he was moved. Hamilton is a carbon copy of the Faulk style only better by rankings. There will be teams at deadline that are looking for right handed Dman. Faulks improved play has I suspect given us pause in the best way to handle a trade.

 

Pesce, Hamilton and TVR shouldn't be ruled out depending on the trade return. Hamilton hasn't lived up to his billing although lately it appears to me his is about to break out.

 

 

 

From one who has defended Faulk from the onslaught (including from me), I take that point seriously. I have really liked Faulk so far this year aside from all of the missed shots. He is so much better at everything else this year. If he keeps this up, I can live with him staying too, which I have not felt for a good while.

 

But if we can find the return this team is better off trading Faulk than Pesce. Not only is Hamilton a historically better Faulk, but we hopefully have a true offensive phenom in Fox. When we construct our D of the future, maybe even next year, the right side of Hamilton/Pesce/Fox makes the most sense to me. 

 

Then, after we trade Faulk, he can go score 25 goals somewhere following the trend for recently traded Canes. 

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Ok. So everyone (almost) says we need to trade D for O now if this season isn't going to end up like the last 10. We've been fixated on a possible Nylander trade for several weeks, but that didn't happen.

 

Two questions. First, what potential trades may be out there right now? Who should we trade Faulk or Pesce or whoever for? We (including me) keep calling for something to be done now, but who's out there that we realistically might be able to acquire in the short term to help solve our lack of offense? Name some names. Second, assuming we can acquire that person, what should the lines look like?

 

      

Edited by spyglass88
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15 minutes ago, spyglass88 said:

Ok. So everyone (almost) says we need to trade D for O now if this season isn't going to end up like the last 10. We've been fixated on a possible Nylander trade for several weeks, but that didn't happen.

 

Two questions. First, what potential trades may be out there right now? Who should we trade Faulk or Pesce or whoever for? We (including me) keep calling for something to be done now, but who's out there that we realistically might be able to acquire in the short term to help solve our lack of offense? Name some names. Second, assuming we can acquire that person, what should the lines look like?

 

      

 

I wonder if Kapanen might be available?

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4 minutes ago, cclifford10 said:

 

I wonder if Kapanen might be available?

 

10 goals and 19 assists in 28 games with +15 and 32 hits. Not a proven player yet at 22, but one who seems to be on the rise. 

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10 minutes ago, cclifford10 said:

 

I wonder if Kapanen might be available?

 

Carolina Hurricanes, The Next Generation

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12 minutes ago, cclifford10 said:

 

I wonder if Kapanen might be available?

Think some are speculating this, but Toronto is greedy and trying to stack the deck, so to speak. 

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3 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

that burying Svech on lower lines

Just wonder, Top, what lineup could be with the current roster (without Ferland): Svech+Rask and who?, as well as with Ferland back?

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