Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
OBXer

In-season trades and player moves

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, gocanes0506 said:

Must not expect Staal to play tomorrow. Bishop and Kuokkanen recalled.

 

 

What happened?  I didn't watch any of the Canes game.  Bishop had a great game in Charlotte tonight.  Kuokkanen had a decent shift or two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

What happened?  I didn't watch any of the Canes game.  Bishop had a great game in Charlotte tonight.  Kuokkanen had a decent shift or two.

Staal had an upper body injury in the 1st from a hit. Didn’t return in the third.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sooner TD realizes that he knows nothing about hockey and how to evaluate talent, the better for this team. 

 

I understand  that he spent a lot of $$$ to buy the team, so it is his right to do whatever he want with the team.  It has happened many times across all the major sports leagues.  New owner comes in and wants to draft players and make personnel decisions etc.

 

Here is the best example...when Robert Kraft bought the Patriots, Bill Parcells was the coach/GM.  The team had turned the corner and was finally heading in the right direction after being considered the laughingstock of the NFL for years. In 1996 the Pats had the 5th overall pick I believe.  Parcells wanted to draft a defensive lineman or something. The new owner wanted to take a splashy big name WR from Ohio State. Parcells was forced to draft Terry Glenn against his will by the owner who was sitting in the war room with parcells and all the scouts.  Parcells was gone as soon as this went down.

 

So the Patriots make it to the Super Bowl that year.  Lose to Green Bay.  Parcells doesn’t fly back with the team.  Despite being under contract, forces his way out of New England.

 

Mr. Kraft stays involved in personnel decisions for a few years afterwards.  5 years later the team is a complete disaster again.  Wasted draft picks.  Salary cap mess, Locker room in shambles.  Everything is upside down 

 

Mr Kraft realizes his mistakes.  Hires Bill Belichick to be coach/GM.  Removes himself from personnel decisions.  And the rest is history.

 

So please Mr. TD, please leave being a GM and coach to the people who know what they’re doing.  Step back and just run the organization.  Be consulted on player decisions occasionally if need be.  But the sooner you realize that you shouldn’t be involved in personnel issues, the better off your franchise will be.

 

Focus on hiring the right management team.  Spend the money to get these people in place.  Don’t just hire the people who will let you have a say in things.  

 

When this happens, the team will finally be able to turn the corner and start heading in the right direction.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, iceman11 said:

 

 

So please Mr. TD, please leave being a GM and coach to the people who know what they’re doing.  Step back and just run the organization.  Be consulted on player decisions occasionally if need be.  But the sooner you realize that you shouldn’t be involved in personnel issues, the better off your franchise will be.

 

Focus on hiring the right management team.  Spend the money to get these people in place.  Don’t just hire the people who will let you have a say in things.  

 

When this happens, the team will finally be able to turn the corner and start heading in the right direction.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with most of your post.  The problem is by that time there will be no one left who gives a crap.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, reelpirate5 said:

 

I agree with most of your post.  The problem is by that time there will be no one left who gives a crap.  

Right.  Large market teams can handle the wandering the desert.  Small market teams just get eaten by the desert rats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure Dundon is a smart guy. But at some point true widsom is knowing what you don't know and getting people in who do. This is also generally the modus operandi of other uber successful business men a la Warren Buffett. It's really about evaluating the guy who will run the team. Kraft is a very smart guy too, but it wasn't until he made THE move to get Belichik in there that things turned. 

 

I like to think I'm a smart guy (a guy can dream) who knows how to fix this. But you'd never actually hire me to be the actual GM. 

 

I don't know much for absolute sure, but I'm pretty sure that Waddell is not Belichik. 

 

It needs to start with a really good new GM. Heck Waddell would probably be the first vote on the committee to do just that. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m tired of hearing about a “committee.” It appears to me the “committee” is a group of yes men who defer to an owner who has zero business running a hockey team. Those, like Ron Francis, who had no interest in being puppets for the owner, left or were dismissed. Based on what I’ve seen so far, this team is much worse off in many ways than it was before Dundon got here. Cheap hires. Bad personnel decisions, no money invested in anything about the team, and we are much closer to the bottom of the league than a playoff spot. I’m starting to believe the conspiracy theories that Dundon wants to destroy the Raleigh market leaving the league no choice but to allow him to relocate. If they do, will he have throwback games in Houston wearing Canes gear? We won a cup. Hartford never did. I do know that if Dundon does decide to get out of the way, Don Waddell is not the guy to fix this mess. Maybe Vellucci, but I don’t know of anyone else in house, and wonder who we could find outside the organization the way Dundon has handled the last GM search and run his “committee” this year. I’m totally disillusioned right now, and looking for something positive from our owner to change my mind. I hope something is coming soon, but don’t really expect it. And that’s sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, remkin said:

I'm sure Dundon is a smart guy. But at some point true widsom is knowing what you don't know and getting people in who do. This is also generally the modus operandi of other uber successful business men a la Warren Buffett. It's really about evaluating the guy who will run the team. Kraft is a very smart guy too, but it wasn't until he made THE move to get Belichik in there that things turned.

 

I like the Buffett analogy.  That really makes a lot of sense.

 

Imagine Buffett directing every bit of Fruit of the Loom one day, Geico the next, then Dairy Queen on the third.  It would not go well.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love all the experts’ opinions about the committee that dont leak things, have been together 6 months, and made 3 moves.  

I get they are the face of the franchise now but they haven’t ruined the team or been a part of it for this decade of misery.  

 

The team isn’t drastically worse. We are on pace to score less but also give up less goals than last season. 22 less goals scored, 17 less goals given up.   Minor drop in points per pace. 79 to 83 last season.

TD made the single largest investment in a FA that we’ve made since about ever.  18 million on a FA doesn’t happen around here. 

RBA could suck. He could also not suck. BP was seen as a ‘meh’ coach but has done well with a roster.  So who knows?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

I love all the experts’ opinions about the committee that dont leak things, have been together 6 months, and made 3 moves.  

I get they are the face of the franchise now but they haven’t ruined the team or been a part of it for this decade of misery.  

 

The team isn’t drastically worse. We are on pace to score less but also give up less goals than last season. 22 less goals scored, 17 less goals given up.   Minor drop in points per pace. 79 to 83 last season.

TD made the single largest investment in a FA that we’ve made since about ever.  18 million on a FA doesn’t happen around here. 

RBA could suck. He could also not suck. BP was seen as a ‘meh’ coach but has done well with a roster.  So who knows?  

gocanes, just not sure I get the point(s) you are making here? All I really know for myself is, like a few have been posting, every time I'm inclined to detach from this team for yet another season, and by doing so, limit the pain of missing playoffs YET AGAIN, the team plays a brilliant game like last night and I'm right backing the mix. As a long time STH who rarely missed a game for about the 1st 12 years, just like my marathon training, I rarely had a conflict which caused me to miss a game. Lately, however, "things" keep getting in the way of making a 150 mi round trip journey, like my wife not feeling well Thurs night, and then the BtoB Sat night game opener, both were so ugly that I silently felt somehow justified to "just watch on TV"? Then yesterday, with 2 god awful performances down the drain, plus a busy day at church, I again bowed out, but then having to suffer the indignity of  "game to remember", and somehow feeling guilty for not being a true fan.

 

All of that gibberish and have not addressed your message? Yes, it seems curious to me too, now that you've pointed it out, that if decisions are really being made by committee, that no rumors are getting out about ANYTHING? What's more debatable is the next idea "they haven't ruined the team"? That and the next few ideas, I just cannot compute? No, this team is not drastically worse, the goal differential, who cares, and the single free agent who has been a valuable pickup for sure, all to my mind have just MAINTAINED STATUS QUO. We appear to be still stuck in our comfortable rut of mediocrity, facing an April end to the season and a middling pick in the draft?

 

Selfishly, I want more. I want to be re-energized like I was in the early 2000's, nothing stopping me from that traffic plagued drive, hoarse the next day following a game, and INVESTED in the team. With Dundon's purchase, I sensed an overhaul in facilities, game time experiences and THE TEAM, not status quo? Yes, I realize that these things aren't rectified in a day, but someone, anyone show us long time, dedicated fans that YOU CARE? Get your damn hands out of your pockets, take that stupid looking baseball cap off your head, look at the camera, AND GO GET US 1 OR 2 SCORERS? And one last thing, find someone who can teach these players how to score on the power play. How many games do you suppose we could have won with some semblance of competence in this single aspect of a game? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@KJUNKANE

 

the point being the prior posts claiming they know exactly what is going on inside the committee.  “Everyone else is a yes man” “Dundon is the one making the decisions” “Waddell is just the talking head” etc etc.  yet no rumors are out there about the committee.  

 

Claiming the committee is a failure despite being together for a short time and making few moves. At least one other that wasn’t accepted.  This isn’t the NBA where one FA will take you from a bottom dweller to serious contender.  

 

Do I want us to be better, of course!

The new ownership or brain trust wasn’t going to turn this franchise around in 6 months.  Since we weren’t involved with JT we had little chance of making us better on offense in FA without making a bad long term signing (JVR).  FA class was weak but they still made the largest FA signing of the franchise (which is sad in its own right). Hopefully that changes this offseason with Stone, Duchene, Karlsson, Hayes, Panarin, Simmonds, Eberle, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my favorite posters keeps talking absolutes about Brindy, maybe in the hope of making his point to us?  The reality is we know little, except what we see from public interviews.  And some of that is just obfuscation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

It appears to me the “committee” is a group of yes men who defer to an owner who has zero business running a hockey team.

We differ here yet agree. My POV is that certain of the committee--former players--have convinced TD they know more about what it takes to win than anyone else. 

 

The fact is, they probably do--or would, if they would drop their (blatantly obvious) bias against power and scoring forwards who don't "play enough" defense, while gladly excusing the failings of defensive forwards who don't "score enough" goals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

We differ here yet agree. My POV is that certain of the committee--former players--have convinced TD they know more about what it takes to win than anyone else. 

 

The fact is, they probably do--or would, if they would drop their (blatantly obvious) bias against power and scoring forwards who don't "play enough" defense, while gladly excusing the failings of defensive forwards who don't "score enough" goals.

 

 

What gets me is the bias against scoring forwards who don't play enough defense that is totally contradicted by them having no problem with scoring defensemen who don't play enough defense.  Faulk's current career season aside, he was coming off a couple awful defensive seasons when this all went down, and then there's Hamilton.  Head-scratching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

What gets me is the bias against scoring forwards who don't play enough defense that is totally contradicted by them having no problem with scoring defensemen who don't play enough defense, OR score any goals.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All judgements are transient always. We could still be waiting out Francis, or JR for that matter. We can only judge the committee by what has transpired to this point. I can see a future where they get Jack Hughes, flip Faulk or Pesce and a couple of prospects for a top line forward and a top goalie. I can also see a future where they let Ferland walk over his contract, let Fox slip away, end up in the mushy middle picking around #13, and keep waiting for that D for O deal that Francis wasn't the only one unable to pull off. 

 

So we only know what we know: Owner fires coach and GM. In the search for both, he makes it clear that he will be micromanaging things and probably will pay about 1/2 the going GM rate. Despite NHL GM being a massively sought after, incredibly rare club to get into, no one wants to be his GM, so after he begs Waddell three times, we get our reluctant GM. They then pull in a past retirement age close friend of Waddell, who, like Waddell has lots of time in NHL management without lots of success. 

 

Then the head coach. Again, an inside hire. A guy with lots of heart, but whose entire coaching experience is being on the bench for this same organization at only one level, and part of all of that losing that we supposedly let players go for being part of. Then his assistants are added from inside too. 

 

The committee did win the ping pong balls. Just imagine if they hadn't though. What would this team look like sans Svechnikov? Makes one think. 

 

The committee then decided to double down on a goalie who was, no exaggeration, the single worst goalie in the NHL. Fair to say that was a fail. A fail that cost actual games and points. At least they figured that out finally.

 

They then made a blockbuster trade. Too soon to grade that one. It really could go either way. We gave up two top 5 draft picks, but will we re sign Ferland? Will we sign Fox? Will Dougie find his way on his new team? Incomplete.

 

Then the committee got really antsy and itchy pants and decided that the one thing that simply could not wait for the right deal? Getting a goalie? No. Getting that forward for D? Nope. It was getting rid of Skinner no matter the cost. Could this year's flailing to score team have found some spot for a guy who put up 25 goals, on his worst years? Oh, but then we would have never gotten that first rounder for next years deep dra.....oh wait. We didn't get a first rounder. 

 

The committee did get DeHaan, who was an underrated solid pick up. The committee did pick up McE off waivers, though that was sort of a no brainer. And the committee did get Martinook, who has been better than advertised. 

 

While one never knows what people might have learned, it is still not unreasonable to be skeptical of Waddell and Dudley based on their lack of success despite years in the league. 

 

I'm not in any way saying that the committee approach with it's novice owner and all in house team, might not still pull it off.  They were presumably close to some big trade that fell through, and we appeared to be all in on Nylander. But until that sort of deal happens, it is as illusionary as it was under Francis. 

 

This team needed that trade at the latest two weeks ago. This team is flailing and despite the nice Whaler win, about to go under for the 13th straight time.

 

It is actually pretty easy to see a path for next year. Necas is better than people think. Svech will be a true star by next year. Aho will have learned to be an even better center. Foegele might even show another level. That D for O trade will simply have to happen. And we might win the lottery again. 

 

But I have been looking to next year for over a decade on these very boards. The idea of looking there again in JANUARY? Dundon is new to all of this, but that also means he hasn't suffered looking to next year, well really at all (unless you count last year). I have. So yeah, it colors my opinion of the committee. I'm still open to something turning that around. Not sure how much longer though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I told myself when the Whalers moved to Carolina I would continue to be true to them and follow them, at least until any connection to the Whalers no longer existed.  I don't live anywhere near either Hartford (birthplace) or Raleigh (never been), but when the team visits the west coast I try and see them if my schedule permits.  The seemingly tenuous connection between the Whalers and Hurricanes ended with the firing of Ronnie Franchise last season;  then again, the new owner has honored the Whale by dressing the team in Whalers logos and performing Brass Bonanza when they score on Whalers night.  So, here I am still following the team after all these years (I date back to the Howe era).

 

I don't get to see the team first hand, and they are not televised out here, so all of your feedback is appreciated.  Ronnie Franchise did some things right in terms of his patience and stock piling some young talent via the draft and trades.  Signing Scott Darling to a 4 year deal untested as a starter was not a highlight.  Signing Alexander Semin long term was pretty bad, and the length of Jordan Staal's deal with a no trade clause inclusion was not too good.  None of those bad decisions approaches what seems like the worst sports trade I can recall of Skinner with Buffalo last summer.  I don't think we will be seeing Cliff Pu with the parent team anytime soon.  

 

All is not bad though.  We need to add a legitimate top line scorer.  We have some scoring talent in Aho, Teuvo, Svechnikov, and hopefully Necas.  Wallmark, Ferland, and Foegle have all been positive additions.  Williams is on his last legs, Rask offers nothing and was another bad signing, McGinn and D'Guisepe are grinders at best.  There are a few guys at Charlotte such as Gauthier, Roy, and Kaukeunnen, but we need a finisher.  We need someone who will raise Staal's offensive game, since he is going nowhere.  

 

With the plethora of defensemen in Raleigh and guys such as McKeon and Bean in Charlotte, and Fox and Martin on their way, we need to deal Dougie Hamilton or ANY of the Raleigh defenders not named Slavin (though I would prefer not to deal Pesce) ASAP if we want to compete.  If we don't want to compete, tank and go for Jack Hughes.  We we're so lucky in the lottery last year to get Svechnikov, but they pretty much decided to trade that luck and unload Skinner for exactly nothing.  Beyond head scratching, but behind us.  Maybe they were planning on tanking all along.

 

Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep JR traded Doumi and a 1st to get Staal a year early.  Then signed him to 10 years.

 

JR also signed HWSNBN to a 1 year 7 million deal when no one else would touch him. Then a 5 x 7 deal a year after, perplexing everyone.  That deal sealed his fate.  

 

Ronnie did trade away Eric when it was his time to leave.  Ronnie also got us the Blackhawks’ pipeline going.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brandon Sutter also went in the trade for Staal. I do think there are teams that are strong down the middle and  would love to have Staal for the role he played so well in Pittsburgh. Maybe not for $6 million, though Pittsburgh supposedly offered him the same contract he signed in Carolina.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...