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No i am from Raleigh. But it’s gotten worse over the years. The heat has beaten me down. Finally glad it’s cooled off... but I remember many Thanksgivings and Christmas Days where we had to turn on air conditioner.

 

lemme ask, when the ice is soft like that, does it cause the puck to roll?

or can it cause it to roll? Like hit resistance and cause it to go up on edge?? Seems like it rolls a lot in southern games. Could just be my imagination. 

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To make things worse (although expected based on my post about the cap issues) TML rumored to offer a 5 year deal to Matthews. They cannot afford a 8 year deal at 12 million AAV. 5 years could save them some but only buys 1 year of UFA eligibility.

 

ehhhhh. The JT signing isn’t doing them any favors. WHO KNEW?

 

Again we should not give TML what they want. They don’t have much leverage. It’s Faulk / futures or nothing for Nylander.

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Man, Ny is some tempting glitter. Faulk and futures work for me but where does the kid fit in the Canes organization?

 

I will stipulate that at first I thought Ny was a red flag because of this TML rift. But now I don’t. It’s just business.

 

My question remains. Where does he fit on our ice and in our room, assuming there would be a deal to bring him here?

 

Or am I being typically amateurish regarding executive hockey decisions... and getting a stud like Ny is the endgame. Fitting him in is the easy part?

 

I do think if anyone could make the puzzle come together in the room, Brindy could. That dude is custom-made for stuff like that. Him and Williams? Crazy good leadership. Wow.

 

But I just don’t know.

 

Does getting him disrupt our room? Seems our room is in the best shape in, what ... 7 or 8 years..??

 

Whatta I know...

 

Thoughts on “fit” and “personality” and “young existing egos”?

 

To me? Those dynamics need serious consideration.

 

Golly tho I just don’t know. Hmm.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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Well you don't separate the Turbo AF or FAT line (whichever nickname you like)

 

I think he fits next to Svech.  The question is who is the LW.  Martinook, Z, or McGinn? 

 

Gives us 2 really good scoring lines.  The thought of Wallmark as the 4th C with Martinook and McGinn on the wings sounds pretty good.

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I'd just add that Necas down takes off a guy we were thinking (or I was) could produce 35-40 points. It's one thing if it's temporary, but if it's semi permanent for this year, we have an even bigger need (or at least want) for a proven forward. Nylander is still, of course a long shot, but he would be a massive get. This is a guy with near ppg potential who can play center or wing and who does play D too. I am not aware of any negative affect on the room in Toronto, but who really knows? Except I'm sure that the committee has ways of finding this out. 

 

To me character is important for sure. But that includes on ice character. Does he not stand up for teammates, win puck battles, go to the dirty areas, back check, etc. (HWSNBN). If a guy at least mostly does those things, then for me he just needs to not be a locker room cancer. I've heard that some guys are (T Hoffman by reports, maybe P. Kane). If those are issues, the committee will not be interested, but the committee has already expressed interest, so I'm not worried. 

 

Long term, how long will J Willy play or be effective? So there's a spot there. And again, if we move an extra D man, there's salary gone there. 

 

Once Necas puts it together, and he will, we would have a top of:  Aho, Svech, TT, Nylander, Necas (all elite scorers)...Staal, Foegele, Ferland (very good two way guys), Zykov (or whoever steps up) as the top 9 post JWilliams. And this year at least J Williams too. 

 

Svech should be an 80-100 point guy eventually as could Aho. Nylander 70+, TT 65-70. Necas? Unsure, but that speed will be disruptive and probably he's a 65 point guy. This is a huge keg of top 5 firepower that few teams could match. 

 

But wait there's more. Foegele will be at least a 20 goal guy while making lots of little winning plays and bringing edge. Ferland? Ditto. Staal? Ditto, plus puck possession including face-off beast. Zykov: TBD, but really could be that net front guy with skill.

 

Just gives us a powerhouse team up front, with a very very solid D (and even if Faulk goes, Hamilton and hopefully Fox can be huge offensively from the blueline). That is eventually a cup competing team if we can settle goalie down. And that's with lots of good to very good prospects to fill in or trade. 

 

I would venture that if this team could pull off Faulk for Nylander, we'd be set except in goal, for a long time. After that, we focus everything on getting a #1 goalie, though Ned is looking very good so far....

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1 hour ago, Porter100 said:

lemme ask, when the ice is soft like that, does it cause the puck to roll?

or can it cause it to roll? Like hit resistance and cause it to go up on edge?? Seems like it rolls a lot in southern games. Could just be my imagination. 

It isn't. Softer ice promotes rolling and bouncing pucks, largely because (little-known fact) pucks are frozen before the game, i.e., literally stored in the deep-freeze, making their vulcanized rubber even harder. Combine that - hard puck - with soft ice, and you get the crazy hops and rolls. I've long wondered why the NHL doesn't use unfrozen pucks in venues with humid/soft-ice conditions. It wouldn't solve the problem but it would make it less pronounced. 

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3 hours ago, Porter100 said:

No i am from Raleigh. But it’s gotten worse over the years. The heat has beaten me down. Finally glad it’s cooled off... but I remember many Thanksgivings and Christmas Days where we had to turn on air conditioner.

 

lemme ask, when the ice is soft like that, does it cause the puck to roll?

or can it cause it to roll? Like hit resistance and cause it to go up on edge?? Seems like it rolls a lot in southern games. Could just be my imagination. 

Well yes .  Typically  when you are on ice that is in a climate  like  raleigh .   basically any town that is   below  where chicago would be  south .  the ice has alot more    resistance than  up north   where it is much colder and  smooth .    the ice can cause the puck not to glide    easily  and has more of a push  on  it . that's why you see a lot  of times players  will have to skate at a slower rate than normal because they can lose  possession of the puck .    the ice can get really choppy and   bounce  and  will act lively   .   but that tends to change some  once the winter months roll in  and  then you only have a few nhl cities where the ice is still crap .  tampa , florida ,  dalas ,  LA  , anahiem ,  san jose ,   st louis .  and some times carolina  and washington .   nearly every where else  the ice would be up to par for  skating but also for  puck handling .  

 

Take Darling for example .   when he   use to play in the sphl   and had to deal with terrible ice conditions  at one time or another  , he learned to adjust   and adapt at a quicker rate  and was reliable  , ( also he was in much better shape then )    that's why he was a sought out goalie  .    when he gained weight  he hindered his former play  . and goalies are creatures of habit . they always like to do the same things in routine  , so  i believe darlings  play  was effected in that regard . not so  much the ice surface  .   but some goalies that come from the Qmjhl   tend to suffer  in the nhl  because that adjustment is hard for them  ,  coming from  nice ice cold  temperatures to  raggedy  ice conditions in  the south   .   

 

All in all it's part of hockey and  will continue to be  ,   Unless some genius  can figure out a way to keep ice    frozen  in  summer temperatures  that would have to same feel or conditions like as if it were in canada  in the middle of winter ,  there will be no ultimate change to the games . 

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sheath 

4 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

Unless some genius  can figure out a way to keep ice    frozen  in  summer temperatures

 

A jacket of salt water around the ice, as it would allow lower temps than freezing inside the jacket, and would keep the ice colder. That is my .02 worth

 

Edited by dreadedlyfe
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So if we were to trade Faulk for Nylander (I'm slow to come around but warming to the idea) would we move Hamilton down to the second pair with de Hann and reunite Pesce with Slavin.  That would probable bring Fluery back up to pair with TVR although there are some other options from the A

 

If it's Pesce they want and won't budge I think I would still make the deal but that leaves our D much weaker. The top pairs remain the same and Fluery and TVR are still the probable 3rd pair.

 

If we get our third line going it might not be a move we want to make but goals win games. Nylander is probable going to re-sign with the Leafs making this all academic.

 

 

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Im not saying the opinion of trading Pesce for Nylander is wrong, I don’t see the long term benefit of it.

 

1. Our depth at RHD, especially defensive RHDs, is weak. Weakest position in our system by far.

2. He is the lengthiest asset we have on the right side. Faulk will walk in 2 years and a decision will have to be made on Dougie in 3.  

3. Our center depth seems to be okay. We are void of a 2nd scoring center that will put up 40-50 points. Necas has some growing and should be there in a couple of seasons.  We have plenty of organizational depth for scoring capable 4 Cs in Wallmark, Roy, and Geekie.

 

1 concen for Pesce is his long term health. He has injury issues.

 

Nylander:

His FO% was decent last season at 51.4

The vast majority of his scoring is 5v5, which is a big plus. I feel like it’s easier to increase PP scoring.

He is good at creating of the rush and zone entry.

We’d have a potentially tough 4 lines to battle every night.

 

He isn’t very physical at all.

The biggest question: How much of his point total was a benefit from playing on Matthews’ line?

He is primarily a winger so he would have growing to do as a center.

How much is he going to cost over 5-8 years?

At this point he is going to need a week plus to get reacclimatted.  

 

Does the positives and the thought of him centering our own sniper outweigh the unknowns and long term implications of the right side of our defense?

 

 IMO no it doesn’t. Give me a lesser talented fellow for futures that is our bandaid.  Plenty of decent FAs if Necas’ growth is slow.

 

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It's an interesting proposition Pesce for Nylander. To be honest, we might have to add something. Of course, if Toronto wants Faulk and gaggle of picks/prospects I'd do that first. But assuming they don't want Faulk, and assuming we don't want to move Hamilton,

 

Pesce is a rock solid D man, and definitely the most solid guy we have on the right side. That makes him tough to let go for sure. But Nylander is elite. I just read some pieces on him to try to gage some things. He does drop off some w/ Matthews not on his line, but so does Matthews with Nylander not on his line. He has solid D stats and solid advanced stats. He is amazing in transition, some say better than any other Leaf. That fits our game. One article called him a future Hall of Famer. 

 

It would hurt to give up Pesce's D. It would hurt some of us to still have Faulk here. But we also have the possibility of signing Adam Fox, by all accounts a future elite offensive D man, from the right. Depending on several things, down the road, we could go Hamilton, Fox, TVR down the right and still move Faulk for a goalie or picks or another stay at home RHD. 

 

Jersey, Vegas, even Toronto, have shown you don't need a world class defense. Chicago won 3 cups with 3-4 really good D men depending on the year. We still have Slavin, Hamilton, DeHaan, and IMO Hayden Fleury is going to still be solid. Fold in Fox, and maybe Bean eventually. 

 

I have serious hesitation to give up Pesce. He is a seriously good RHD. But the firepower we'd put out there every night with Nylander and the speed and transition that Nylander and Necas could bring as soon as next year or even later this year? 

 

It's a hockey trade. We get the elite player. I'd do it.

 

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Shutdown D pairings are an absolute necessity for any serious Cup contender, and we have one, and it's buttoned down for years at a great price. No way, no how should we give up either of them. I'd give 'em any TWO of our other four roster D, their choice, and be totally fine with a 5-6-7 of McKeown, Cajovsky and Fleury the rest of the way. Remember, we have three goalie options. 

 

But Slavin and Pesce? Untouchable.

Edited by top-shelf-1
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9 hours ago, remkin said:

It's a hockey trade. We get the elite player. I'd do it.

 

We were blessed to get these two guys and now we want to give one of them up? I just dont get it.

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Its a two headed snake type of decision that could bite from either end.. IMO with all the young D-men we have in stock, id pull this trade to get the fire-power. 

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I don't think everyone fully appreciates that Pesce is every bit as good as Slavin, just with a different style in his own end (more physical, because he lacks Slavin's reach)--and with more offensive upside, especially at 5 v 5.

 

Fanbases tend to have short memories, but the Canes' woes on D were profound enough for long enough that I have to say I'm surprised anybody's willing to give up either of the two guys who have been tasked with shutting down the league's absolute best players - McJesus, Ovie, Crosby - and have consistently done so, at an age where anything close to that ability is as rare as hens' teeth. And they are still getting better. 

 

Toronto is good enough already, and as someone (coastal?) pointed out, holds all the cards in this situation, which means any potential trading partner is the likely loser in the deal. So if Pesce's the price, I fold. Toronto's an obstacle to a conference title already, and it's their own greed (Tavares) that put them in this situation. There's no way I not only help them get out of it, but give up my shutdown D pairing to boot.

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12 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

1 concen for Pesce is his long term health. He has injury issues.

 

That's news to me.  Since coming over to the big club in October of 2015 Pesce has missed 7 games [in 2018] due to injury.

 

That hardly qualifies as long-term health issues.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Toronto is good enough already, and as someone (coastal?) pointed out, holds all the cards in this situation, which means any potential trading partner is the likely loser in the deal. So if Pesce's the price, I fold. Toronto's an obstacle to a conference title already, and it's their own greed (Tavares) that put them in this situation. There's no way I not only help them get out of it, but give up my shutdown D pairing to boot.

 

It may happen, but I think the odds of the Canes trading Pesce are near zero.

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Just now, coastal_caniac said:

 

That's news to me.  Since coming over to the big club in October of 2015 Pesce has missed 7 games [in 2018] due to injury.

 

That hardly qualifies as long-term health issues.

 

 

I almost went there when I read this too. Yeah, he had the mystery issue before the season, but I've seen no lingering effects, and honestly his play looks better to me than it ever has.

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I would like Nylander as well, but soon the sous chef will be back.  We haven't seen him play with a healthy shoulder for 2 years.  Before that he was a decent sniper.  All this ends up as I wouldn't trade a premier asset because we might not have to.  Pesce at his contract is a good thing. 

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Well at least it stimulates some discussion. I agree that Pesce is very valuable. I argued that he is our best D man on the right side in terms of playing D. It would be a big loss. TBH for me it's a 55-45 thing, but you have to give to get. It is an interesting thought about making Toronto better, but it would also help us. 

 

Even with my praise of Pesce, I certainly could be undervaluing him (I value him highly), but when it comes to giving to get, no one likes the giving part. Nylander is also very good. Dundon has mentioned a couple of times how winning teams have star players. Not just good ones. Sure good ones too, but stars too. Nylander is a future star player. It is in fact our future stars that give us long term hope. Last year Aho and TT stood between us and oblivion. 

 

On the plus side, the idea of Necas, Nylander, Aho, TT, and even Staal pushing the pace in transition and lighting things up over and over would be fun to watch.

 

Aside from losing an outstanding D man, the other issue against this move could be keeping all of the studs in the pen long term. Eventually we'll need to pay Aho, TT, Svech, Necas, and Staal, and probably even Foegele (and of course Nylander) decent money. If that would end up being too much payroll, then this is not a good option even if one could stomach losing Pesce.

 

I agree this is a far less likely trade. I can fully appreciate those that think it would be a big mistake. I'm torn on this, but the chance to pry free an elite player just doesn't come along very often. Like never for us. 

 

I, like Top would rather pile onto some other one-for-many type trades. I've even mentioned that if they have any interest in Faulk, I'd pile onto that far before trading Pesce. But no one seems to want Faulk, and they need a RHD. What about Hamilton? That would be kind of nasty though, picking him up, telling him we want him to be a part of this, then...plus..

 

People say Hamilton is a top 20 Dman. If that's true then Slavin, Hamilton, DeHaan is solid. Those who have love for Faulk can add him in, then Fleury and TVR with Bean and Fox coming up. 

 

It's a close one to me. I get that it's a no go for many others. Maybe an interesting poll...I think this position might get smoked though, since I seem to be on my own here.

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4 hours ago, cc said:

We were blessed to get these two guys and now we want to give one of them up? I just dont get it.

Most don't. I seem to be pretty alone on this one. It's a tough call to me, but I tip over to getting the ever elusive elite talent. Mainly because of our D depth. I get the notion of a shut down pair, but Slavin plus, is still pretty good. Several cup winners had a shutdown pair mainly because they had the one stud and a guy who complemented him. We'd still have Slavin. We have a lot of depth on D and O. But our issue has always been one of top line, elite talent. We had a bunch of it once. Literally once: 2005-2006. 

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On the question of how dependent Nylander is on Matthews I did find this:

 

 When Matthews missed 20 games with various injuries, Nylander stepped up in his absence, posting identical production to the previous year.

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Fora on waivers.

 

are we trying to free contract space (not sure why, just throwing out there)?

Fora not accepting a move ECHL? Waivers then release so he can go back home?

Really been so bad lately that he isn’t worth AHL insurance?

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