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In-season trades and player moves

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2 minutes ago, sleekfeeder said:

Rumor I read about the Canes floating Hamilton and Ferland. 

If that's the case, and it happens, every single player coming here should just book a month-to-month rental property

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2 minutes ago, sleekfeeder said:

Rumor I read about the Canes floating Hamilton and Ferland. 

I saw Ferland may be moved because contract talks have stalled.  We are receiving calls on Hamilton.  I don’t think we are actively shooping either. Speculation one could be moved and the other is drawing interest from other teams.

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6 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

I saw Ferland may be moved because contract talks have stalled.  We are receiving calls on Hamilton.  I don’t think we are actively shooping either. Speculation one could be moved and the other is drawing interest from other teams.

TD better have a plan if this happens (losing both) and tell fans something. If not I sense pitchforks coming out. I know I'm sharpening mine.

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1 minute ago, sleekfeeder said:

TD better have a plan if this happens (losing both) and tell fans something. If not I sense pitchforks coming out. I know I'm sharpening mine.

 

If that were to happen I would think the return would need to be significant. All the smoke and mirrors in the world couldn't disguise the fact that the trade was a failure.

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Mrazek and McElhinney have now played in 33 games resulting in 37 points (1.12 points per game or about 10 points ever 9 games). If they continue at this pace over the next 41 games, they will add 46 points. For the team, the projected finish would be 89 points. Notably, if the 1.12 points per game was for the entire 82 game season, the projected finish would have been 92 points. What is now needed over the second half of the season to be in contention for a playoff spot is 10 points every 8 games, a difficult task. If a move is to be made to increase the offense, it must be done now.  

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6 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

I saw Ferland may be moved because contract talks have stalled.  We are receiving calls on Hamilton.  I don’t think we are actively shooping either. Speculation one could be moved and the other is drawing interest from other teams.

Gee, we acquired Ferland because contract talks stalled on Lindy and Hanifin. Back to the el cheapo discussion. Is there any player on our roster that this owner can get signed? If we trade Ferland and Hamilton, and don’t sign Fox, we better get back 2 overall top 5 draft picks, 3-5 years into their NHL careers.

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31 minutes ago, winger52 said:

Keep Ferland. He's a Scott Walker type, not much flash, but is ready to step up when needed. Something this team sadly lacks.

Unsure if it is money or the player that has halted the negotiations.

 

some players like to focus on hockey. Could the pause be money motivated? Sure! Could a move to wait concern the management that he may walk for nothing? Of course.  

 

Its a understandable position by the management.  At the same time, they should be committed to making sure he stays. If Ferland would prefer to be closer to home then, only an overpayment will keep him here.  Not sure if we are in the overpayment business.

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1 hour ago, bluedevilcane said:

Gee, we acquired Ferland because contract talks stalled on Lindy and Hanifin. Back to the el cheapo discussion. Is there any player on our roster that this owner can get signed? If we trade Ferland and Hamilton, and don’t sign Fox, we better get back 2 overall top 5 draft picks, 3-5 years into their NHL careers.

 

I know that's the popular narrative lately, but I don't believe the main reason we traded Lindy and Hanifin was contract related.  I do think that may have contributed to them being available, but after last season everyone agreed that we needed to get tougher and add more scoring.  Ferland is the epitome of the type toughness we need, and before Lindy took off in Calgary it would have been reasonable to expect that Ferland would score about the same as Lindy.  And, without looking up stats, where did Hamilton rank in scoring among all NHL defensemen over the past 4 years? Top5? I'd be surprised if it wasn't at least top 10.     

 

As far as re-signing Aho, Turbo, and Ferland, we're still not halfway through the season yet and none of us knows whether Canes are being unreasonably miserly or just responsible in the negotiations.  Before we adopt a "get it done now, regardless" attitude, I'd encourage everyone to keep in mind the impact some of the past Canes contracts have had on the team, like E Staal, Ward, Rask, HWSNBN, and most recently, Scott Darling.   Now, if things start to get contentious, or we start to approach the summer with no movement, then I'll become concerned. 

 

Again, it may turn out that TD is a tightwad that isn't willing to invest in on-ice talent.  I'm just of the opinion that all things considered, circumstances are such that it's too soon to make that call.

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2 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

 

I know that's the popular narrative lately, but I don't believe the main reason we traded Lindy and Hanifin was contract related.  I do think that may have contributed to them being available, but after last season everyone agreed that we needed to get tougher and add more scoring.  Ferland is the epitome of the type toughness we need, and before Lindy took off in Calgary it would have been reasonable to expect that Ferland would score about the same as Lindy.  And, without looking up stats, where did Hamilton rank in scoring among all NHL defensemen over the past 4 years? Top5? I'd be surprised if it wasn't at least top 10.     

 

As far as re-signing Aho, Turbo, and Ferland, we're still not halfway through the season yet and none of us knows whether Canes are being unreasonably miserly or just responsible in the negotiations.  Before we adopt a "get it done now, regardless" attitude, I'd encourage everyone to keep in mind the impact some of the past Canes contracts have had on the team, like E Staal, Ward, Rask, HWSNBN, and most recently, Scott Darling.   Now, if things start to get contentious, or we start to approach the summer with no movement, then I'll become concerned. 

 

Again, it may turn out that TD is a tightwad that isn't willing to invest in on-ice talent.  I'm just of the opinion that all things considered, circumstances are such that it's too soon to make that call.

Thank you Lake for this, and I am very much in agreement with this sentiment. Further, IMVHO, there are a very few pseudo-experts on here who have an opinion and then tend to run with it, conscripting scenarios that are half reality, but otherwise are figments of their views of this team. True, TD may turn out to be PK clone, but we need to see more of his actions to really form that opinion? Unfortunately for us, we currently see a cacophony of an owner in Peter Karmonos who was in the twilight of his waning years of curmudgeonry ownership, a GM who sold us out for status in the NHL, a present owner who seems more fixed on image than substance, and a GM who seems to be a "yes man"? Add to that, a past HOF GM who despite accumulating a wealth of players could not seemingly convert them into NHL strength and was unceremoniously replaced by the present GM who was linked to a sold out franchise, and a coach who has limited experience. And we wonder why we are presently where we are?

 

As much as anything, I am of the belief that this franchise suffers from two things. The 1st is the attainment of the epitome this sport offers in reaching the Stanley Cup championship in just a few(10) short years.The 2nd is the collective expectation this region(i.e. the ACC) has for championships. Combined, we here have very limited patience for not being a winner. Not being a dyed in the wool aficionado, I can only imagine what struggles these players go thru to get their name on one of those rings, but how rare it is I can only imagine. 

 

So, I guess what I am attempting to say is that I believe the jury is still out on how the current ownership will fashion this team? His choice for GM and HC were definitely not sexy, and definitely could be perceived as being "cheap", but in his position, maybe they were more seen as "safe choices" for someone new to the game?

 

I like most would love to have seen both the 1C and the Vezina goalie this franchise has needed for 10 years picked up this past offseason, but the real question is, Were they available? Most rational analysts I've read said they were not. As much as I have willed them to be there for us, the question still remains, was that reasonable? Time, and admittedly I'm tired of being told to be patient, but it will tell? 

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As we have control of every NHL defenseman in our organization through next year (Fleury is a RFA that will not get more than 1M per), we should not make any moves on D unless it is moving one out for legit NHL scoring. We are over-invested in D right now.  We should have a top-4 and ride them heavily, with the bottom pairing playing 12-15 minutes a night tops. Right now, we have 5 top-4 defensemen.  One needs to be moved.  Let's see what Dundon does the rest of this year and the off-season.  If nothing is done, perhaps I will buy a pitchfork as well...

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One thing I've been kicking around is Faulk. This guy has utterly fixed his game. Is it DeHaan? Maybe, but Faulk was the bad Faulk with Sekera and other good stay at home D men too. Faulk has clearly re-evaluated his game (or been coached well) and is now a nice  puckmover who plays decent to good defense and can bomb an occasional PP goal.

 

He is closing in on Skinner land in terms of his contract, where he'll be down to one year next  year. 

 

I am liking Faulk enough to actually be ok with keeping him. But I wonder if he's raising his trade value enough to let us keep Pesce. 

 

I guess just mainly pointing out how well Faulk has been playing this season.

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46 minutes ago, ironman87 said:

As we have control of every NHL defenseman in our organization through next year (Fleury is a RFA that will not get more than 1M per), we should not make any moves on D unless it is moving one out for legit NHL scoring. We are over-invested in D right now.  We should have a top-4 and ride them heavily, with the bottom pairing playing 12-15 minutes a night tops. Right now, we have 5 top-4 defensemen.  One needs to be moved.  Let's see what Dundon does the rest of this year and the off-season.  If nothing is done, perhaps I will buy a pitchfork as well...

We are going to have to move at least one RHD if we are to convince Fox he has a shot at the league soon.

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Can we please just be linked to someone for crying out loud? Anything? Whipspers? Drunken Tweets? We've been screaming about it might be to late, or it is too late, and just when it seems like the opportunity at the playoffs (although it is still remote) has passed us by and it is too late, we go on this mini run to bolster our hopes. I feel like this is going to play out like recent years past. We scratch and claw our way to the precipice, and look over our shoulder for reinforcements, with no help to be found. 

Edited by sleekfeeder

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9 minutes ago, sleekfeeder said:

Can we please just be linked to someone for crying out loud? Anything? Whipspers? Drunken Tweets? We've been screaming about it might be to late, or it is too late, and just when it seems like the opportunity at the playoffs (although it is still remote) has passed us by and it is too late, we go on this mini run to bolster our hopes. I feel like this is going to play out like recent years past. We scratch and claw our way to the precipice, and look over our shoulder for reinforcements, with no help to be found. 

We don’t get the media coverage to be linked to anyone.  Unless we are actively targeting a Leaf or Canadien we wont here anything.  Nothing about the Calgary trade before it happened. 

 

Sara is too busy blasting the entire male species (as if we collectively did something wrong) than actually doing a good job covering the Canes. The subscription seems like a waste at this point (the other teams I follow don’t get adequate coverage either and their writings are more blog-ish than inside knowledge.)

 

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Please keep Ferland. I think negotiaions will make us all uncomfortable until we sign someone. Also, Hamllton is now scoring goals. So we got that goin' for us.

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Please keep Ferland. I think negotiaions will make us all uncomfortable until we sign someone. Also, Hamllton is now scoring goals. So we got that goin' for us.

I agree.  The additions of Ferland and Martinook have added a degree of toughness to the lineup that was missing.  Of course Skinner and Lindholm would have to be having career years in scoring goals to make last offseason look gloomy, BUT I think this team is one additional goal scorer plus a good version of Jordan Staal away from being a good team.  Do not trade Ferland.  Package a RH defenseman, preferably either Faulk or Hamilton, with Rask, and get a top 6 scorer back in return.  If it is a center, fine.  If it is a winger, bring up Necas.  If the Calgary trade is going to have a happy ending, signing Fox and resigning Ferland are musts.  So divesting themselves of some RH defense and creating financial room both lean towards the type trade I suggested above.

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I just can't help but think Skinner would have adapted and at least have pumped in 15 goals here by now and  we'd be at the cut line. At least with Lindholm and Hanifin we got something back, 

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1 hour ago, beboplar said:

I agree.  The additions of Ferland and Martinook have added a degree of toughness to the lineup that was missing.  Of course Skinner and Lindholm would have to be having career years in scoring goals to make last offseason look gloomy, BUT I think this team is one additional goal scorer plus a good version of Jordan Staal away from being a good team.  Do not trade Ferland.  Package a RH defenseman, preferably either Faulk or Hamilton, with Rask, and get a top 6 scorer back in return.  If it is a center, fine.  If it is a winger, bring up Necas.  If the Calgary trade is going to have a happy ending, signing Fox and resigning Ferland are musts.  So divesting themselves of some RH defense and creating financial room both lean towards the type trade I suggested above.

I like the notion, but Rask will bring the return down, not up.  No one would touch that contract at this point, unless we were taking a bad contract in return.  I would be OK with a change of scenery trade involving Rask for someone else's underperformer.  But yes, we need to trade a D for an O.  I would even consider trade Slavin were I the GM, though the other team would have to overpay to get him (top line forward would be my starting point).

Edited by ironman87
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15 minutes ago, ironman87 said:

I would even consider trade Slavin were I the GM,

 

Well now the unspoken has been spoken. If you are a GM you owe it to yourself to listen to any offer but I can't imagine another team offering enough to pry Slavin away from us. Although we are deep in Dmen we are thin on the left side.  Unless you think deHann and Faulk can be as good of a top pair as Slavin and Pesce I wonder where you get that top pair Dman to replace Slavin.

 

Bean looked close too me but that would be a third pair Dman I'm sure. Carrick the same.

 

ironman  I'm not saying you are wrong, in fact quite the opposite at least as far as consideration by the GM goes but how would you replace him?

 

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12 minutes ago, OBXer said:

but how would you replace him?

By getting what you need to overcome the goals that would be made without him. I.e gotta put more in than gets put in on ya.  I know Im a simpleton.

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5 minutes ago, cc said:

By getting what you need to overcome the goals that would be made without him. I.e gotta put more in than gets put in on ya.  I know Im a simpleton.

 

Not a simpleton at all. Sometimes a the loss of a player can change the dynamic of a team. Our D is for the most part working and for sure we need a scoring forward but I would be cautious about giving up a player like Slavin.

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6 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

While we’re discussing trading D-men...Fleury?  Not impressed with him

We need cheaper defenders.  He hasn’t been given much of a shot this year when not injured.

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