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In-season trades and player moves

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53 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

While we’re discussing trading D-men...Fleury?  Not impressed with him

The other teams might not be too impressed, either.

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17 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

Maybe there is a sucker out there at the trade deadline that would take Staal.  If so, and he would agree, that would be lovely.

JR moved Fat Kaberle. Time for DW to earn his chops.

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6 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

We don’t get the media coverage to be linked to anyone.  Unless we are actively targeting a Leaf or Canadien we wont here anything.  Nothing about the Calgary trade before it happened. 

 

Sara is too busy blasting the entire male species (as if we collectively did something wrong) than actually doing a good job covering the Canes. The subscription seems like a waste at this point (the other teams I follow don’t get adequate coverage either and their writings are more blog-ish than inside knowledge.) 

 

One tweet defines your whole Sara Civ experience? Yikes. That's unfortunate for you.

 

Her articles are great imo. If you enjoy something different, you should definitely subscribe.

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11 minutes ago, canesfan06 said:

One tweet defines your whole Sara Civ experience? Yikes. That's unfortunate for you.

 

Her articles are great imo. If you enjoy something different, you should definitely subscribe.

No just one example. I am not a fan of the blogger twitter type approach of her writing.  Usually you get subscriptions to get more than a regular internet browser would. Example the article back during the draft with the writer inside their draft room.  CanesCountry provides more content than Sara does and they only charge a few annoying ad clicks that happen when the page “changes” due to content sizing and you happen click the ad instead of the article or comments bar.

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9 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

No just one example. I am not a fan of the blogger twitter type approach of her writing.  Usually you get subscriptions to get more than a regular internet browser would. Example the article back during the draft with the writer inside their draft room.  CanesCountry provides more content than Sara does and they only charge a few annoying ad clicks that happen when the page “changes” due to content sizing and you happen click the ad instead of the article or comments bar.

 

Fair enough, it's definitely not your typical writing style. I was just excited to get some coverage outside of local media.

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9 minutes ago, canesfan06 said:

 

Fair enough, it's definitely not your typical writing style. I was just excited to get some coverage outside of local media.

Its coupled with my existing distaste for DOB that does the coverage for the Braves. The Braves GM has that staff on lock and his writings are typically only opinions as well.  ECU doesn’t get coverage.  So it’s basically a waste outside of an article here and there.

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15 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Thank you Lake for this, and I am very much in agreement with this sentiment. Further, IMVHO, there are a very few pseudo-experts on here who have an opinion and then tend to run with it, conscripting scenarios that are half reality, but otherwise are figments of their views of this team. True, TD may turn out to be PK clone, but we need to see more of his actions to really form that opinion? Unfortunately for us, we currently see a cacophony of an owner in Peter Karmonos who was in the twilight of his waning years of curmudgeonry ownership, a GM who sold us out for status in the NHL, a present owner who seems more fixed on image than substance, and a GM who seems to be a "yes man"? Add to that, a past HOF GM who despite accumulating a wealth of players could not seemingly convert them into NHL strength and was unceremoniously replaced by the present GM who was linked to a sold out franchise, and a coach who has limited experience. And we wonder why we are presently where we are?

 

As much as anything, I am of the belief that this franchise suffers from two things. The 1st is the attainment of the epitome this sport offers in reaching the Stanley Cup championship in just a few(10) short years.The 2nd is the collective expectation this region(i.e. the ACC) has for championships. Combined, we here have very limited patience for not being a winner. Not being a dyed in the wool aficionado, I can only imagine what struggles these players go thru to get their name on one of those rings, but how rare it is I can only imagine. 

 

So, I guess what I am attempting to say is that I believe the jury is still out on how the current ownership will fashion this team? His choice for GM and HC were definitely not sexy, and definitely could be perceived as being "cheap", but in his position, maybe they were more seen as "safe choices" for someone new to the game?

 

I like most would love to have seen both the 1C and the Vezina goalie this franchise has needed for 10 years picked up this past offseason, but the real question is, Were they available? Most rational analysts I've read said they were not. As much as I have willed them to be there for us, the question still remains, was that reasonable? Time, and admittedly I'm tired of being told to be patient, but it will tell? 

 

A non-hockey observation about the part I enlarged above.  In a previous life I was given the opportunity of some management-leadership training.  One concept that was covered was termed "self reinforcing, self limiting preconceptions".  It goes like this: for whatever reason, someone arrives at a certain perception.  Human nature is to look for evidence that supports it.  But the harder one looks for confirmation, the more likely one is to "find" it (confirmation bias).  Which reinforces the perception.  Which makes one even more sensitive to further evidence that "supports" it.  And so on, and so on, in a loop.  The concept makes a lot of sense once one is aware of it, but I suspect most aren't.  I know I wasn't before it was laid out for me.  I suspect that's what's happening at times in this forum and is what you described above.

 

As far as the Canes part of your post, I'm with you.  I think the jury is still out as to whether TD will invest in players.  He has specifically said he'll spend for on-ice talent, just not foolishly.  Now, he hasn't done so yet, and  I can see where he's economizing on "non-ice" parts of the franchise.  So I share your question as to whether we haven't upped our on-ice talent because there hasn't been a reasonable opportunity yet, or whether he's really not going to invest.  The opportunities will be there next offseason, so we'll know for sure by the time next season starts. 

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17 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Thank you Lake for this, and I am very much in agreement with this sentiment. Further, IMVHO, there are a very few pseudo-experts on here who have an opinion and then tend to run with it, conscripting scenarios that are half reality, but otherwise are figments of their views of this team. True, TD may turn out to be PK clone, but we need to see more of his actions to really form that opinion? Unfortunately for us, we currently see a cacophony of an owner in Peter Karmonos who was in the twilight of his waning years of curmudgeonry ownership, a GM who sold us out for status in the NHL, a present owner who seems more fixed on image than substance,

So my question is how much time do you give the owner and GM before you make a decision on their skills,desire and ability to turn the Franchise back into a winning organization?

 

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13 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

So my question is how much time do you give the owner and GM before you make a decision on their skills,desire and ability to turn the Franchise back into a winning organization?

 

I see opportunities coming up this year that weren't available last year.  So, for me, the answer is till the start of next season.  Others are obviously already fed up.

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3 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

But the harder one looks for confirmation, the more likely one is to "find" it (confirmation bias).  Which reinforces the perception.  Which makes one even more sensitive to further evidence that "supports" it.  And so on, and so on, in a loop.  The concept makes a lot of sense once one is aware of it, but I suspect most aren't.  I know I wasn't before it was laid out for me.  I suspect that's what's happening at times in this forum and is what you described above.

 

Hockey Example: Rod with Skinner

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10 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

We are going to have to move at least one RHD if we are to convince Fox he has a shot at the league soon.

You've got the tail on the wrong end of the dog. Fox needs to convince us he's ready for the league soon. Ignoring RHD with professional development under their belt to make room for RHD with none is what we did with Hanifin, and we all saw how that worked out.

 

I really hope the days of anointing guys to the NHL based on impressive performances in lesser leagues (*coughNecasAndALongListOfOtherscough*) are over, no matter how hard their agents or families push for it.

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5 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

Maybe there is a sucker Rutherford out there at the trade deadline that would take Staal.  If so, and he would agree, that would be lovely.

Fixed. That's a move with classic JR-PR stink all over it: Returning hero will get us back to the promised land. Although I doubt the Pens have the cap space.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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2 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

So I share your question as to whether we haven't upped our on-ice talent because there hasn't been a reasonable opportunity yet, or whether he's really not going to invest. 

Aho. TT. Ferland. All seem like clear and present opportunities to me, and with your team struggling (again) to stay relevant past January, and starved for fans (again), what better time to pull the trigger and signal your commitment by getting them all signed?

 

Call it confirmation bias if you like, but until TD actually stops giving me sound reasons for holding my biases - about who he's hired and paid, and more pointedly, who he hasn't - and why, I'll hold onto them like grim death. It seems to me that once he got schooled by the rest of the NHL that you can't come in and make insulting skilled execs your first order of business, he had a choice: eat some crow and make a big splash by hiring a non-vanilla GM and letting him do the job, or do what he did: form some nebulous "committee," and double down on mediocrity, to avoid choking down all that ketchup and feathers.

 

It is still early, I'll give you that. But nobody held TD at gunpoint and told him to say things, upon acquiring the team, like "I want to win now AND long-term." HE said that. HE traded Skinner for nothing. HE elevated to HC a guy with zero HC experience at ANY level, let alone this one. HE pressed Waddell to be GM until he screamed "Uncle!" And while you're right that, outside of Tavares, it wasn't a great class of FAs last off-season, his statements about their uselessness, long before FA season had opened, are pretty indefensible and only represent more crow that he'll have to eat, should he opt to pursue one seriously at any point in the future.

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49 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

You've got the tail on the wrong end of the dog. Fox needs to convince us he's ready for the league soon. Ignoring RHD with professional development under their belt to make room for RHD with none is what we did with Hanifin, and we all saw how that worked out.

 

I really hope the days of anointing guys to the NHL based on impressive performances in lesser leagues (*coughNecasAndALongListOfOtherscough*) are over, no matter how hard their agents or families push for it.

Moving one isn’t putting the cart before the horse or the tail on the wrong end. We will still have 3 RHDs when one is moved.  Moving one allows us to show him that he can beat out TVR or a roster spot is available after TVR’s contract expires.  We will have a hard time showing the same option with 4 RHDs on the roster. The option to keep TVR if Fox flops in the AHL is always there.

 

Also at the same time we have RHD Martin that has to make a decision himself with sign with us or be a senior and sign elsewhere.

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2 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

Moving one isn’t putting the cart before the horse or the tail on the wrong end. We will still have 3 RHDs when one is moved.  Moving one allows us to show him that he can beat out TVR or a roster spot is available after TVR’s contract expires.  We will have a hard time showing the same option with 4 RHDs on the roster. The option to keep TVR if Fox flops in the AHL is always there.

 

Also at the same time we have RHD Martin that has to make a decision himself with sign with us or be a senior and sign elsewhere.

You meant McKeown, I think.

 

In my perfect world, McKeown and Fleury get two NHL roster spots next year, Faulk and Hamilton are moved out, and Fox begins an at-least-one-year tenure in the AHL, or better yet, two.

 

I think (hope) the delay in making McKeown an NHLer is grounded the a belief that you only give Dmen under 22 or 23 jobs in the NHL when you have no other choice. There is no more important place on the ice to have mature bodies that can take a beating night in and night out, and the AHL is the place to develop that physicality and physical conditioning while growing into a big frame. On top of which, by keeping a steady stream of developing and maturing Dmen in CLT, we also keep a solid core there, and that will go a long way in making that org a perennial winner. That will then bubble up to the NHL level, provided the people in charge are patient - and tough enough in laying down the development law with new prospects - to see it through. 

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3 hours ago, wxray1 said:

Who needs these mysterious writers Sara and DOB when you have Remkin and topshelf right here?

Look no further for your bandwidth usage and something to read to kill some time. We've got you covered!

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4 minutes ago, remkin said:

Look no further for your bandwidth usage and something to read to kill some time. We've got you covered!

Just "some" time?? :lol:

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As to Hayden Fleury, this is where my conspiracy ears perk up. He's a RFA next year, and if we'd be playing him more, we'd be paying him more. I still think he is will be a good NHL D man with some upside. But D men NEED NHL games. I'm glad he's getting ice time in Charlotte, but he needs NHL games too. D men are very hard to judge until they get at least 3 NHL seasons IMO, and 4 is better.

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

You meant McKeown, I think.

 

In my perfect world, McKeown and Fleury get two NHL roster spots next year, Faulk and Hamilton are moved out, and Fox begins an at-least-one-year tenure in the AHL, or better yet, two.

 

I think (hope) the delay in making McKeown an NHLer is grounded the a belief that you only give Dmen under 22 or 23 jobs in the NHL when you have no other choice. There is no more important place on the ice to have mature bodies that can take a beating night in and night out, and the AHL is the place to develop that physicality and physical conditioning while growing into a big frame. On top of which, by keeping a steady stream of developing and maturing Dmen in CLT, we also keep a solid core there, and that will go a long way in making that org a perennial winner. That will then bubble up to the NHL level, provided the people in charge are patient - and tough enough in laying down the development law with new prospects - to see it through. 

I like McKeown as well and Fleury plays well with him.  I would much prefer him being a 3rd RHD behind Pesce and a solid 2nd RHD a Faulk/Hamilton.  McKeown seems to struggle with skating though.

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49 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

I like McKeown as well and Fleury plays well with him.  I would much prefer him being a 3rd RHD behind Pesce and a solid 2nd RHD a Faulk/Hamilton.  McKeown seems to struggle with skating though.

I agree he looks like he lumbers around out there, but he's not having any trouble defending, that's for sure. He led the league in +/- last year and is already at +16 this season, one less than his total scoring points. 

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