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Good points about Ferland. I don’t expect them to pay super star money but please don’t let him walk without a reasonable offer. Also please do not trade him to the Pens or Sluggs. 

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I have to agree @cclifford10

 

Ferland is not the player you overpay for.  I could go to 4yrs 18 million at the most.  I can’t see how you go above that when we wouldn’t pay Lindholm 5 million per. To me 4.5 per is an overpayment for Ferland. 3.75-4 is more like it.  

 

You get uncomfortable when paying for Simmonds or Duchene. You know you come in with an overpay but feel good with it  for Stone or Panarin.  You sell your soul for Matthews.  Point being you overpay for top line guys.  Ferland isn’t a top line guy. He is a top 6 guy or an awesome top 9 guy on a deep team.

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4 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

From Elliotte Friedman's 31 thoughts - here 

 

6. Carolina is not in a position to allow its potential unrestricted free agents to walk for nothing. They are far, far apart in negotiations with Micheal Ferland, so it looks like “when” not “if” for him. Pittsburgh makes sense, and so does Edmonton, but there will be others. ..... They are trying to re-sign another good depth winger, Jordan Martinook.

 

More of the same. The reason Ferland ended up here is we were far apart with Lindholm and Hanifin. The guy is a 20 goal scorer who plays a physical game. That’s 2 things in short supply on this team. They need to get him signed. We could run the risk of overpaying him so much that we climb to 30th in payroll. They traded 2 #5 overall picks to get this guy, and they’re going to let him walk after 2/3 of a season? They should have locked him down with a 2-3 year extension before the season started. Calgary signed both of the guys they got from us before they played game #1. But Calgary has an actual GM.

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Michael Smith addresses trade rumors including touching on why Ferland and Hamilton  names are surfacing Tweetmail

Quote

Yes, there will likely be trades made prior to the Feb. 25 deadline. Now, whether the Canes are buyers or sellers remains to be seen

 

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43 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

Ferland brings the kind of game the Canes need - the ability to score and some physicality.  He's also cooled down since October, tallying 9 points in the past 23 games.  A month or so of solid scoring got Rask a cushy contract here and look at him now.  I'd make Ferland part of the core for next season, but i wouldn't give him Tavares money.  Waddell, meet agent.  Agent, meet Waddell.  Put it together.

Yes he has cooled down, but he had the concussion, and then has not been reunited with Aho and TT, who apparently benefit more from playing with Brock McGinn, who should be a fourth liner, or marginal 3rd liner. Surely our braintrust is not keeping Ferland off the top line to drive down his numbers and try to lower the cost of re-signing him. If he believes that latter is the case, I doubt he would re-sign here for any price.

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This run's going to be absolutely gut wrenching if Ferland's leaving in February. No way the run continues without him and at that point the mushy middle will be well established. A decision might need to drop sooner if not very soon. If we can't afford to play ball with FA's then we need high draft picks to try to build a team Chicago style and hopefully save the fanbase that way. Maybe with a few winning seasons TD would invest long term in those draft picks.

 

Or of course it could go Edmonton style, but I prefer to point out Chicago.

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Building with high draft picks is how teams are built for the long term.  However, eventually they need to get paid.  Herein lies the problem for the Canes. Apparently they don’t want to pay anybody anymore.

 

So, after enduring the growing pains of developing the players for 3 or 4 years, you trade away two 5th overall picks, and the 7th overall pick in one offseason instead of paying them.

 

These players should’ve been the foundation the team was built on. The Canes has 5 top 10 picks recently.  3 are gone, 1 is in the minors, and only Svechnikov is currently with the team.

 

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2 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

More of the same. The reason Ferland ended up here is we were far apart with Lindholm and Hanifin. The guy is a 20 goal scorer who plays a physical game. That’s 2 things in short supply on this team. They need to get him signed. We could run the risk of overpaying him so much that we climb to 30th in payroll. They traded 2 #5 overall picks to get this guy, and they’re going to let him walk after 2/3 of a season? They should have locked him down with a 2-3 year extension before the season started. Calgary signed both of the guys they got from us before they played game #1. But Calgary has an actual GM.

He is a one time 20 goal scorer...compare his career stats to Rask and then tell me what we should pay.

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Well Sara got a one-on-one with TD.  Not a lot in the article. Tom defended himself through most of it based on opinions that have manifested about him.

 

he did say he wont allow the past to mess up what they are building. He wont go make a move to make a move because we haven’t made the playoffs in 9 years.

 

No mention of money that is going to be spent on FAs, ours or otherwise.

 

I put this here because of the previous talk about her content.

Edited by gocanes0506

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2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

He wont go make a move to make a move because we haven’t made the playoffs in 9 years.

Well, I guess we can write this season off...

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4 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

Well, I guess we can write this season off...

He didn’t say he wouldn’t make a move. Just said that he cannot let the past dictate their moves now.

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"what they are building" is a bit fuzzy to me.  The only thing we know for sure, from TD's mouth, "Aho."

 

Apparently, after the luck of the lottery draw, add "Svetch." 

 

So, what are they building?

Edited by wxray1

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8 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Well Sara got a one-on-one with TD.  Not a lot in the article. Tom defended himself through most of it based on opinions that have manifested about him.

.......

I put this here because of the previous talk about her content.

 

I'm not sure you understand how click bait works.  You complain about everybody being click-baiters while clicking in the article and reading it.  Too funny.

 

Again, if you don't like the content that folks in good faith put here for info, don't click on it.

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40 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

I'm not sure you understand how click bait works.  You complain about everybody being click-baiters while clicking in the article and reading it.  Too funny.

 

Again, if you don't like the content that folks in good faith put here for info, don't click on it.

I didn’t read the previously mentioned Friedman’s article and typically don’t read his stuff.

I don’t believe I said Sara was click-baiter material. I did say her content wasn’t what I hoped for in a subscription service.  But she did get a 1 on 1 with TD, which was unfortunately short on content.  Again, half of it was TD explaining his business practices because of the loud rumors of him being a puppet master.  

Although in the comments section she plans on writing another article on TD’s comments about their options to make hockey successful here. As expected, posters were saying ‘uh, successful hockey, duh.’ Sara back with ‘look out for my article later.’  That may be a nice piece.

 

Too funny, I guess. 

 

 

Edited by gocanes0506
edited the last sentence

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3 hours ago, wxray1 said:

"what they are building" is a bit fuzzy to me.  The only thing we know for sure, from TD's mouth, "Aho."

 

Apparently, after the luck of the lottery draw, add "Svetch." 

 

So, what are they building?

Yeah, the ancient Roman Appian Way took less time to build than our hockey team?

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15 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

The only thing about using an A for Skinner is that I'm guessing Rod and TD specifically wanted Willy to assume a much more direct leadership role.  But what if Skinner had the "loyalty" of a lot of the younger Canes who were here before Willy came on board? Thinking out loud here, not arguing the point . . .

Yes, but (thinking out loud also) it could have worked the other way: On a team this young, give the kid who was challenged to change his game and did and was successful because of it the C, and let Willy back him up. I think in the end organizational nostalgia won out, and wouldn't be surprised if the inevitability of that is what prompted BP to move on.

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26 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Yes, but (thinking out loud also) it could have worked the other way: On a team this young, give the kid who was challenged to change his game and did and was successful because of it the C, and let Willy back him up. I think in the end organizational nostalgia won out, and wouldn't be surprised if the inevitability of that is what prompted BP to move on.

Hmmm, makes sense top.

 

On another note, looks as if Bobrovsky is ruffling feathers in Columbus? He did look off the other night, and wonder if that is indication of a prelude for a trade? Could we step in to help out, or is this an indication of permanent skill erosion?

 

Just pondering further your thoughts on the Skinner "C" thing, top, from you've been unwavering, and this occurred to me. Do you think that it was as you put it, "organizational nostalgia", or flat out "man crush" of owner for a hockey semi-legend (Brind'Amour)? Just a further thought on this troubling mess?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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As to the trade deadline and Ferland. I think he's a special case. Is there a risk of him becoming the next Rask contract? Yes. There is risk in every contract though. Is there a risk via concussions? Yes, but how many NHL players are actually permanently out of the league due to concussions? We rightly worried about concussions and Skinner and he's doing all right. Lots of players have concussions unfortunately, but keep playing.

 

On the flip side he's special case because:

 

1. We are so far below the cap that we can't even see it, even with the dead weight contracts of Mongo, Rask and HWSNBN. Want to save money? Trade Rask for a bag of pucks at the deadline. Same with Mongo, or more likely buy him out.  Use some of that money to pay Ferland, Aho, and McE. (not their full salaries, just enough to bump them to the high range). 

 

2. Like it or not, we traded our two #5 overall picks for this guy. We have not signed Fox, and there have even been mentions of trading Dougie (in the tweetmail I think). 

 

3. Ferland is not Rask. For one he hits hard. For two he has more finish, and has been more consistent at it. I will concede that Ferland seems to thrive on the top line (who wouldn't?) well actually he is that guy who finishes and can play with top line players where many others have struggled. Also, if you want to spread out the scoring, being able to slot a Ferland on the top line allows that, and finally, top lines usually benefit from one guy who will do the dirty work, can play with the skilled guys even if not elite himself, and can finish when the elite guys create. Ferland is all of that. 

 

4. Even looking past the actual trade he was the return for, losing a guy like him to UFA reflects poorly on us.

 

5. Unless the return is a first rounder, which is not likely, we don't need another 3rd rounder just to say we didn't let him go for nothing. That's the stuff of mushy middle.

 

So trading him at the deadline won't return enough, and letting him walk is even worse. If we took him in trade knowing we only had him for part of one year, then, well we better sign Fox and he better be all of that.

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My hope would be that we could still find a deadline deal that is long term. Yes, the rentals are the main story, but every now and then a hockey trade can happen too. Probably not with a playoff team ironically. But another team that is out of it. 

 

I keep thinking about Ottawa. They gave up their first rounder to the Avs. They have to be reeling about that. Maybe giving them one of our second rounders, a prospect and a D for a signed Stone, or Duchene? Or the Blues. I don't know, but seems possible if unlikely. A team completely out of it might make a hockey trade. A team in it might trade an elite prospect for a D man. 

 

I don't see us picking up a rental unless we have climbed all the way back. But we do have a couple of extra second and third round picks if we were in it. Keep this run going and who knows?

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If we are in contention as trade deadline approaches why move Ferland. He will probable get you futures but not address the need for primary scoring coming back. If we are in contention and I know that is still a big if then even if you were to lose him to FA why not just keep him as he is probable as good or better than any other rental you would get in a trade.

 

If we are out of contention and especially if indications are Ferland won't sign then you have to move him. Although I would do everything in reason to re-sign him because we have been a better, tougher team with him if the writing is on the wall that Ferland can't be signed the only choice is to move him.

 

If we are in that no mans land somewhere in between a contender and a doormat the decision gets tough. I would still try and sign him and only move him as a last resort.

 

Hamilton is a different story. The return he would bring could dictate a move we can't pass up. Business decision not emotional.

 

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12 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Yes, but (thinking out loud also) it could have worked the other way: On a team this young, give the kid who was challenged to change his game and did and was successful because of it the C, and let Willy back him up. I think in the end organizational nostalgia won out, and wouldn't be surprised if the inevitability of that is what prompted BP to move on.

For the record.  I like everyone here I think was not happy about giving up skinner for very little return.  I didn’t think he would be here but in a contract year he might score some goals for us elevate his play like maybe even score 30 goals by mid January or something g 😀.    

I can tell you he didn’t seem to want to be here. And people used to comment to me about how he was apart from the  team and not engaged In practice.  Heard many things like this.  

I get that conspiracy theories are fun but come on , you think Williams wouldn’t want skinner here?   when they did get the chance to play on the same line they were great together.  IMHO you are way off base with all your speculations.  Maybe Jeff just simply said I want out.  Maybe he wanted to leave.  Tired of being on the wrong line and not having more opportunity to score and wanting to get a plus 8 mill contract and knew he would not have the chance in this team.  who knows?  

But at the least it’s still gut wrenching that the team ir management or whoever didn’t make his situation whatever the real details end up better for the team.   Very disappointing.   Also a bit scary as we have all the upcoming players to be signed.  

 

Facts: we let him go at the wrong time and got very little.  Now he is scoring like we knew he could.  It sucks.  He will get a monster contract because of it.  Good for him.  

Move on.  

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10 minutes ago, caryhurricanes said:

 

Facts: we let him go at the wrong time and got very little.  Now he is scoring like we knew he could.  It sucks.  He will get a monster contract because of it.  Good for him.  

Move on.  

 

McKenzie talked about it a bit last night on NHL Live on NBCSN.  He figures Skins is up for a many multi year contract at mid 7's.  He thinks that 8 is obtainable if he keeps up this torrid pace.

Edited by wxray1

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caryhurricanes, I think you make some good points, BUT I think we all have to resign ourselves to the fact that as long as our Canes team seems to remain in its favorite spot of just being out of playoffs, but not bad enough to usually not get a great draft pick, than the debate over Skinner will simmer? Add to that being a "goal starved team" and Skinner's resurgence of goal scoring on his new team, and everyone with a heartbeat will offer their opinion.

 

Skinner emotes an engaging personality which was/is impossible not to like. As far as one comment you make though, related to his being apart from teammates during warmups, I never perceived that. The image I'll personally never forget is that of him ALWAYS digging pucks out of the net to distribute to the team. Seems strange to see someone else doing that these days. And I'm not sure that any one single player does that exclusively? 

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16 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

How much would you pay

 

 

 

I'd love to re-sign Ferland but I fear that's the dilemma the Canes will be facing.   Other than money, I see little reason for Ferland to forego UFA status and sign with the Canes.   He hasn't been here long enough to develop ties, and his experience so far can't leave him with the impression that Canes are one of the best teams in the league to pursue a Cup.   So why wouldn't he demand a huge contract in order to bypass UFA, not just from a $ perspective, but also the chance to choose a team?  (not sure about GMs but I've seen a lot of other fan bases indicate that they'd love Ferland on their team)

 

If that ends up being the case, how much would you (generic you, not the 3 members I quoted) be willing to "overpay" Ferland?  Keep in mind ccliford's point that there will likely be other options out there for next season like Stone, Duchene, etc. who would also need an "overpayment" in order to land.

 

I first thought re-signing Ferland would be a  no brainer, but the more I think about it, the more problematic I'm thinking it might be.    

It is hard to form an opinion when I don't  know what Ferlands ask is. I love his style of play but if his ask is absurd, I pass and save the money for higher talented UFA's. It is one reason I'd  prefer to have TT,Aho signed quickly so we know what our further opportunities might be from a financial aspect. TD's internal budget may be limited after signing TT and Aho making high end UFA's out of his price range. If that is the case then Ferland may be a cheaper option even if it is an overpay.

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24 minutes ago, OBXer said:

If we are in contention as trade deadline approaches why move Ferland. He will probable get you futures but not address the need for primary scoring coming back. If we are in contention and I know that is still a big if then even if you were to lose him to FA why not just keep him as he is probable as good or better than any other rental you would get in a trade.

 

If we are out of contention and especially if indications are Ferland won't sign then you have to move him. Although I would do everything in reason to re-sign him because we have been a better, tougher team with him if the writing is on the wall that Ferland can't be signed the only choice is to move him.

 

If we are in that no mans land somewhere in between a contender and a doormat the decision gets tough. I would still try and sign him and only move him as a last resort.

 

Hamilton is a different story. The return he would bring could dictate a move we can't pass up. Business decision not emotional.

 

I agree with all of this. The only way I let Ferland go is if we are out of it AND he won't sign, or will only sign for some insane contract.  In both cases it is still a loss and reflects on that trade. I do think Dougie is coming on, but I would trade ANY of our D men except Slavin* if the return was right.

 

*of course Slavin too, but the return would have to be big overpay, which is not going to happen.

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