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TSN HNIC folks are saying that Ferland will get at least Tom Wilson contract numbers: which is 6 x $5.166M

I'd actually be ok with that.

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Goodness gracious 30 million for Ferland. Again if we cannot justify paying Lindholm that much even though they have similar points and Lindholm is a center, how can we do that for Ferland?

Edited by gocanes0506

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TD has not signed one player on the existing roster to an extension since buying the team a year ago. Seems we are always “far apart” with everyone. I don’t know why he bought the team if he did not understand the long term issue with this franchise is it has been underfunded. He was supposed to be the answer to that. To date, he has cheaped out on every hire and signed no one. Paying Ferland might send a message to Aho and TT that they will not spend their entire Canes career looking for a compatible line mate like Skinner and Staal did. Even a first round draft pick that might help us 3 years from now is not equal to what Ferland can provide now. If we can’t sign guys we have exclusive negotiating rights with, why would we think we can sign UFAs when we are bidding against multiple other teams. Yes we signed De Haan. That’s one guy. We need more than one guy.

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12 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

Goodness gracious 30 million for Ferland. Again if we cannot justify paying Lindholm that much even though they have similar points and Lindholm is a center, how can we do that for Ferland?

He makes the team better. We need to get to the point where we start paying the going rate for good players. Ever since they won the Cup, they have either traded guys for low return, or let them walk rather than pay them. They have made the playoffs once since then, and most fans have been frustrated by the fact that very little money has been spent. If this team wants to attract better players, they need to show that they will spend the money to keep the players that make the team better.

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1 hour ago, caniac6 said:

He makes the team better. We need to get to the point where we start paying the going rate for good players. Ever since they won the Cup, they have either traded guys for low return, or let them walk rather than pay them. They have made the playoffs once since then, and most fans have been frustrated by the fact that very little money has been spent. If this team wants to attract better players, they need to show that they will spend the money to keep the players that make the team better.

I get we need to spend money but paying Ferland 5 million over 6 is too much. 4.5 is more than enough and no more than 4 years.  

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2 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

TSN HNIC folks are saying that Ferland will get at least Tom Wilson contract numbers: which is 6 x $5.166M

I'd actually be ok with that.

 

You do realize that he has exactly 1 20 goal season?  4x4 is top for Ferland.

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21 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

I get we need to spend money but paying Ferland 5 million over 6 is too much. 4.5 is more than enough and no more than 4 years.  

IDK gocanes, I just know I'm just glad I'm not the guy (or committee) having to make this decision. I understand that it seems to be a fine line we're walking here, but why can other teams routinely do this and find ways to circumvent the system? At some point it just seems we've got to take another chance despite getting burned by HWSNBN and Darling. Ferland has demonstrated both with Calgary, and now us this year, that he brings a key element for which we've been reaching it seems since E Cole. Maybe not quite the scorer but more rugged and raises that bar above what we've had for awhile. If we had anyone in our system that seemed to be trending in that way (Goat or Roy maybe), than I could see risking letting him (Ferland) go, but do we? And if we don't, can we go after someone comparable, particularly if we show so little respect for a quality player that $500K would be the difference in resigning them. No, I fear that with the trend we seem to be screaming out to the hockey, that of being a CHEAP organization, we just have got to show that we are not. 

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7 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

I get we need to spend money but paying Ferland 5 million over 6 is too much. 4.5 is more than enough and no more than 4 years.  

So you're saying, let him walk. The guy is 26 and on pace for the best year of his career, despite missing time with a concussion. At some point performance proves potential, and I think in Ferland's case it does, in spades. If he is not exactly the kind of player our committee is on record saying it wants I don't know who is.

 

$5 million is right in line for top-line wingers (on TBL alone, Palat, Gourde, and Johnson will be at 5.3, 5.1, and 5 next season, respectively). At 26, Ferland is in his prime. He immediately found chemistry with our two top guys coming in the door, then found it immediately again after the injury. When those three are together, we score goals, period. And Ferland's numbers are right in line with both of Stamkos' wingers, so why shouldn't his contract number be, too? 

 

Getting Ferland, Aho, and TT signed, IMO, is TD's make-or-break deal, at least to this point in his ownership. If Aho gets his $8 million and TT gets 6, Ferland at 5 would put our top line's payroll right in line with TBL's--and its anchor (Aho) is waaaaaay younger, meaning we save big time if you project out a few years when salaries have continued to climb. If TD can't get these three into the barn, players around the league will have every reason to think he is all talk--and so will Canes' fans.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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7 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

IDK gocanes, I just know I'm just glad I'm not the guy (or committee) having to make this decision. I understand that it seems to be a fine line we're walking here, but why can other teams routinely do this and find ways to circumvent the system? At some point it just seems we've got to take another chance despite getting burned by HWSNBN and Darling. Ferland has demonstrated both with Calgary, and now us this year, that he brings a key element for which we've been reaching it seems since E Cole. Maybe not quite the scorer but more rugged and raises that bar above what we've had for awhile. If we had anyone in our system that seemed to be trending in that way (Goat or Roy maybe), than I could see risking letting him (Ferland) go, but do we? And if we don't, can we go after someone comparable, particularly if we show so little respect for a quality player that $500K would be the difference in resigning them. No, I fear that with the trend we seem to be screaming out to the hockey, that of being a CHEAP organization, we just have got to show that we are not. 

I think you’re looking at yearly average only. I looking at total money.  Guaranteeing 30 million for a guy that has concussion concerns and has only put up 40+ points when playing on a top line.  I’d do 5 per over 4 years, although feel uncomfortable about it.  

 

Ferland has had 2 good years playing on top lines with Aho and Gaudreau. Would we keep him playing with Aho level players for the 6 years?  Or would we project Svech to be the guy?  If we bump him down and he isn’t getting to 40 points?  We are already overpaying for 40-45 points.

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10 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Goodness gracious 30 million for Ferland. Again if we cannot justify paying Lindholm that much even though they have similar points and Lindholm is a center, how can we do that for Ferland?

 

Maybe they need to figure out salaries are going up in the NHL at a high rate, and they shouldn't chase a mistake.  Bottom line is you can't be a playoff team with any consistency and constantly be the team with the lowest payroll.....just doesn't happen.

 

Now just spending money to spend it will not make a difference.  They have to get the right players.  I think Ferland is worth the risk.  Yes he has had concussion issues, and yes he has not been a top goal scorer his entire career.  Lindholm was not either until this year.  There is no denying Ferland makes this team better and tougher.  If you do make the playoffs you have to be able to play different game than the Candy Canes of the past.

 

If I were King I would pay him TW money.  I am betting someone else will if we don't (probably a team serious about winning), and they will be happy with their investment.

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We have a hard time attracting free agents. Ferland brings what we need and IMO deserves Wilson like money if that’s what it takes to keep him.  

Edited by Canes06cup17
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1 hour ago, gocanes0506 said:

Or would we project Svech to be the guy?

Why can't both be the guy?

 

We've got Svech essentially for free these next two years, meanwhile Ferland is at the perfect age to peak those same couple of years. Use that now and until it diminishes, if it does. Playing with top talent tends to lift one's game. (*coughSkinnerandLindholmcough*) If he gives you two good years at least, you win. All the while he's showing Svech how to play, and the two can become interchangeable if the top line has a slack period. If he peaks or three or four, you have a maturing Svech as a second line center, which can only be a good thing; it means your top six is filling out. Every extra year this one player gives you anywhere in your top six (Tyler Johnson is currently skating on the second in TB), you buy another one for the multiple wingers developing in CLT. And steady flow of fully developed wingers is you fill out your top six now and keep it full as guys age through. 

 

Based on his trend and total games played, Ferland strikes me as a late bloomer who needed a change of scene, just like the guy we moved to get him. He's closing in on 290 NHL games across four and a half NHL seasons; Lindholm has 420 in six.

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The cost to sign players is going up. And if we want to sign them we have to pay. We cant sign discount players and hope to do anything.

 

I can see the hesitance to pay him that money that long. IMO Ferland would probably perform well 3-4 years out of the 6 and then maybe start to taper off. I think of him as a Cole/Ruutu type player. That physical type of play is hard to sustain. But how many years have we spent looking to replace those guys? We have one, lets keep him. Also paying a guy like Ferland makes guys like Aho and TT better. Good player + good player = 2 players playing to potential. But with Lindholm and Skinner look what happened - Carolina put these players with lesser talent and they underperformed.  We trade them and they play with skilled players and they EXPLODE. Losing Ferland will likely result in other players underperforming IMO.

 

Honestly if we lose him and Hamilton its obvious the MGMT has no clue what they are doing (we need scoring, lets trade it all away!) This team is several trades/signings away from being in the mix. Losing Ferland only means we have THAT MUCH MORE work to do. If we could get one more goalie, trade 1-2 D for O then I say we look a lot better. Lose Ferland and now you have to make 3-4 moves (difficult IMO) as opposed to 2-3 (hard but doable). If we cant get one move done how can we expect to pull 3-4 off?

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5 minutes ago, cane-addict-1 said:

The cost to sign players is going up. And if we want to sign them we have to pay. We cant sign discount players and hope to do anything.

 

I can see the hesitance to pay him that money that long. IMO Ferland would probably perform well 3-4 years out of the 6 and then maybe start to taper off. I think of him as a Cole/Ruutu type player. That physical type of play is hard to sustain. But how many years have we spent looking to replace those guys? We have one, lets keep him. Also paying a guy like Ferland makes guys like Aho and TT better. Good player + good player = 2 players playing to potential. But with Lindholm and Skinner look what happened - Carolina put these players with lesser talent and they underperformed.  We trade them and they play with skilled players and they EXPLODE. Losing Ferland will likely result in other players underperforming IMO.

 

Honestly if we lose him and Hamilton its obvious the MGMT has no clue what they are doing (we need scoring, lets trade it all away!) This team is several trades/signings away from being in the mix. Losing Ferland only means we have THAT MUCH MORE work to do. If we could get one more goalie, trade 1-2 D for O then I say we look a lot better. Lose Ferland and now you have to make 3-4 moves (difficult IMO) as opposed to 2-3 (hard but doable). If we cant get one move done how can we expect to pull 3-4 off?

Extremely well said, c-a-1.

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9 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Why can't both be the guy?

 

We've got Svech essentially for free these next two years, meanwhile Ferland is at the perfect age to peak those same couple of years. Use that now and until it diminishes, if it does. Playing with top talent tends to lift one's game. (*coughSkinnerandLindholmcough*) If he gives you two good years at least, you win. All the while he's showing Svech how to play, and the two can become interchangeable if the top line has a slack period. If he peaks or three or four, you have a maturing Svech as a second line center, which can only be a good thing; it means your top six is filling out. Every extra year this one player gives you anywhere in your top six (Tyler Johnson is currently skating on the second in TB), you buy another one for the multiple wingers developing in CLT. And steady flow of fully developed wingers is you fill out your top six now and keep it full as guys age through. 

 

Based on his trend and total games played, Ferland strikes me as a late bloomer who needed a change of scene, just like the guy we moved to get him. He's closing in on 290 NHL games across four and a half NHL seasons; Lindholm has 420 in six.

I agree with the premise. My point was are we going to overpay for 40-45 points of production on the top line just to take him off the top line? Which would make the overpayment look worse. 

 

We are already overpaying Staal and Rask for little production and have to buy out Darling/ trade him at 50% retain.  That is a lot of wasted money for a small market team.

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7 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

 

We are already overpaying Staal and Rask for little production and have to buy out Darling/ trade him at 50% retain.  That is a lot of wasted money for a small market team.

 

Unfortunately these are sunk costs.  Looking back doesn't necessarily direct the path looking forward.  

While I don't want to see spending to be done just to spend, one still has to make the team better going forward.

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13 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

I agree with the premise. My point was are we going to overpay for 40-45 points of production on the top line just to take him off the top line? Which would make the overpayment look worse. 

 

We are already overpaying Staal and Rask for little production and have to buy out Darling/ trade him at 50% retain.  That is a lot of wasted money for a small market team.

So package both. No takers? Put Rask on waivers--someone (named Bill Peters) will pick him up (much as that pains me to say, because he's lately shown signs of full recovery and re-assimilation). Voila, just paid for Ferland, and then some.

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2 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

So package both. No takers? Put Rask on waivers--someone (named Bill Peters) will pick him up (much as that pains me to say, because he's lately shown signs of full recovery and re-assimilation). Voila, just paid for Ferland, and then some.

I like the plan. Count me in.

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12 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Goodness gracious 30 million for Ferland. Again if we cannot justify paying Lindholm that much even though they have similar points and Lindholm is a center, how can we do that for Ferland?

5.1 seems a little high but is that his initial ask? If so I think Ferland would give a home town discount if TD got close. As Top pointed out,we have some dead wood that if traded or bought out would pay for this in a short period of time.

Edited by slapshot02

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21 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

5.1 seems a little high but is that his initial ask? If so I think Ferland would give a home town discount if TD got close. As Top pointed out,we have some dead wood that if traded or bought out would pay for this in a short period of time.

 

Just curious SS, why do you think Ferland would give the Canes a hometown discount at this point?  He's only been here half a season, it's not near his hometown, and from a team perspective the season so far would seem to be more frustrating than satisfying for him (Calgary currently sits with the 2nd best record in the league).   I'm thinking the opposite; this is probably his one chance to cash in, and I'm guessing it will take an overpayment to get him to pass up the UFA market.  Now, if the Canes are able to continue the turnaround and become legitimate playoff contenders, and he's a big part of it, I could see him us generating more loyalty.  But until and unless that happens  . . .

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Since TD took over, every time you hear anything about contract negotiations with the Canes, the player and then team are far apart.  

 

I recall all when he took the reign he said something along the lines of never losing a player if the money was close.

 

I took this as a positive.  However, we are now beginning to realize the Canes are never close on money so his previous statement never comes into play...

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As for Ferland, he is exactly the kind of player the team identified as needing to change the culture of the team.  All the committee talked about was becoming a tougher team to play against.  

 

Eventually, the team needs to pay somebody.  We are barely at the cap floor right now and the team is competing for the playoffs despite all that has gone wrong this year.  

 

Instead of recycling Checkers recalls, maybe the committee should look into beefing up the team with some proven NHL players to give the team a legit shot at the playoffs.  

 

Its called investing in your business...

 

The current crop of players deserve a shot at the playoffs.  They have played hard just about every game despite being over matched talent wise most nights.  Reward their effort and get them some help.

 

that was the problem with Francis.  The team would be hanging around in contention.  He would wait to long to get some help.  The team would fade and by trade deadline, the team would be out of the playoff race.  So he would have to dump players for picks.

 

Get this team some help now!!! Never mind moving players for futures.  

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