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In-season trades and player moves

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32 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Guys, I'm just so torn with the Ferland situation. Unquestionably I would like him here, yet I know in the REAL hockey world, things don't necessarily follow our desires. On the one hand, I know the downside of keeping this player and trying to acquiesce to his demands, and what a dangerous precedence that sets for future negotiations. Added to that is his recent ? concussions, and possibility these recur. Keeping him also risks losing him for nothing? BUT Ferland does bring a grit factor that the team has lacked (can I say craved) for way too long.

 

However, throw in that our favorite ogre, JR, is actively rumored to be sniffing around, and I'd just be damned if I'd give him the satisfaction of poaching a player who would compete against us in our division and could even be instrumental in edging us out of the playoffs that he sold this team down the road oh so many years ago, putting us into this playoff limbo going on a decade now.  Besides, what does Pittsburgh even have to offer up in a trade that would help us? No way do I want to see that smug Sidney Crosby's face gloating over another gift from Carolina, even if Ferland walks for nothing? 

 

Well articulated.  Mega-dittos.

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I would not feel good about trading Ferland to Pittsburgh. For me it has nothing to do with JR.

 

Clearly they would have to give up their first rounder at least. But while they are currently a cutline team, their history, their studs, and their goal differential, suggest that they will not miss the playoffs, and once in, could go deep (of course). This drops our draft pick down the board.

 

Plus, at least at present we are directly competing with them for a playoff spot. 

 

Ideally we trade him West to a cutline team we think might fall back. Gets him out of the conference, and a better shot at a higher pick. (Maybe Colorado would trade us Ottawa's pick! I keed. Though maybe for some sort of package. No. But in all seriousness, they have two picks and might trade theirs, which could still end up being a mid rounder). I don't know if they need D, but one of those West teams on the bubble would be ideal.

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I put this here because it relates to us being able to move a roster D man. It also would allow us to shift salary by adding lower salaried young D men.

 

Jake Bean is on fire. He has 4 goals in his last 4 games, but going back a bit, he has been on a .79 ppg run for 28 games now, with 22 points in 28 games, 8 of them goals. This rate of production would be #5 in ppg in the AHL, but even just looking at his current point totals for the entire year (not just the 28 most recent) he is #10 in points and #6 in goals in the AHL. 

 

Hayden Fleury is also more than ready for at least a bottom pair role. 

 

Adam Fox remains the #1 offensive D man in NCAA and #3 point per game of all players (including forwards). 

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33 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Faulk is beginning to show up in some trade chatter again.

Between Faulk, Dougie, and Pesce, I believe 2 outta 3 won’t be here in a month...and I hope we keep Pesce.

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13 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Between Faulk, Dougie, and Pesce, I believe 2 outta 3 won’t be here in a month...and I hope we keep Pesce.

I think until Fox proves he is ready, we are taking a huge risk moving more than 1 RHD. We move one then tell fox he has to beat TVR for RHD #3.  

 

TVR is either an expensive #7 defender or it would be easy to move him. Although i go option one as fox insurance.

Edited by gocanes0506

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4 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

History top, were they close or just teammates?

I don't know, but even "just" teammates is different when you've won two Cups together. And for a guy with retirement starting to peek over the horizon, Quick has to see the advantage$ of Raleigh compared to the cost of living in LA. Plus he's a Connecticut native... maybe his family is still "back east"?

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
extraneous word
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1 hour ago, OBXer said:

Faulk is beginning to show up in some trade chatter again.

 

^

I saw this on TSN last night as well. 

 

They also said that Carolina would like to move Ferland sooner rather than later because of injury concerns/risk of getting nothing, or a diminished return if Ferland gets hurt (again). 

 

😣

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Both Martinook and Brind'Amour were on XM today (separately). First post Martinook and a key factor on Brindy IMO.

 

Martinook: Fits here, likes it and is all in on being a part of the future that he sees as bright. Mentioned Roddy has maintained a mostly very positive tone with the team, even during the worst stretch. I think this is key and part of why the team responded the way it did. 

 

Brind'Amour said before the season began that his philosophy was to stay positive, even when young guys make mistakes, because it builds confidence and increases their ability to relax enough to make plays. I wondered if he'd kept at it when things got tense. Apparently he did, and at least in the last 13 games it seemed to work as the team started scoring.

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21 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Dooo wuuuttttt?!?!

 

Fleury is down there because we have 7 NHL defenders and he is the only one that is waiver exempt.  Should we just give away NHL talent to make sure he has a NHL spot?

 

Gauthier and Bean are close to ready. They are developing.  Neither seemed ready a the beginning of the season. Both are making a case for next season.  

 

Just because 3 number ones are in Charlotte doesn’t mean they are flops yet. It surely doesn’t mean that we should shy away from more 1st rounders.

Go back and read my post. I never said they were flops. I said, or meant to say, that 3 years after they were drafted (4 in Fleury’s case) they were in Charlotte and not contributing at the NHL level. Thus, a first round pick for Ferland would likely also take 3 years or more to impact the Canes. My point was we need to package other assets with Ferland if possible and get an NHL ready player with upside. Or if we trade for a pick, we need to look to leverage it with other assets to fill an immediate need. Fleury should be playing in Raleigh, IMO, but for whatever reason we have not been able to trade our surplus of D for the kind of offensive player or goalie that we need. 

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Brind'Amour's interview: Think the team has played well all year with the exception of about two games, but just couldn't buy a goal. The difference lately, the puck has been going in. He praised the goaltending, but deflected a question about the long term plan at goal. Said TD wants to win badly. Had a plan for a longer runway, but senses he might make a move sooner, especially if the team shows it can stay in the hunt over the next "little while". Justin Williams has the coach's ear and will come in and tell truth to power as to his read on things. Brind'Amour said he couldn't imagine a better leader for this team. He praised his team saying that they always play to compete (except the aforementioned two games). 

 

I think he has the guys playing loose and confident. Can we pick this up after this long break? If so, our chances are better than they seem. That will tell the tale. 

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13 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

Go back and read my post. I never said they were flops. I said, or meant to say, that 3 years after they were drafted (4 in Fleury’s case) they were in Charlotte and not contributing at the NHL level. Thus, a first round pick for Ferland would likely also take 3 years or more to impact the Canes. My point was we need to package other assets with Ferland if possible and get an NHL ready player with upside. Or if we trade for a pick, we need to look to leverage it with other assets to fill an immediate need. Fleury should be playing in Raleigh, IMO, but for whatever reason we have not been able to trade our surplus of D for the kind of offensive player or goalie that we need. 

not all first rounders are built the same or contribute the same.  

 

This is the year we look to trade for a top 6 forward for a defender and possibly sign another (not as risky as Ferland) in FA. Use all assets to restock the youth and assess what ya have over next season. 

Edited by gocanes0506

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14 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

I said, or meant to say, that 3 years after they were drafted (4 in Fleury’s case) they were in Charlotte and not contributing at the NHL level. Thus, a first round pick for Ferland would likely also take 3 years or more to impact the Canes. My point was we need to package other assets with Ferland if possible and get an NHL ready player with upside. Or if we trade for a pick, we need to look to leverage it with other assets to fill an immediate need. Fleury should be playing in Raleigh, IMO, but for whatever reason we have not been able to trade our surplus of D for the kind of offensive player or goalie that we need. 

 

Turning assets into better assets hopefully is always the plan.  The Canes haven't been in position to do much of that for a long time.  On Ferland's return, it's being widely reported he should bring a first.

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2 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

Turning assets into better assets hopefully is always the plan.  The Canes haven't been in position to do much of that for a long time.  On Ferland's return, it's being widely reported he should bring a first.

I hope he does. It’s looking less like there’s much chance of him staying here, and no contending team is going to trade us the kind of player we need. I guess stockpiling a first round pick gives us more ammo to trade for what we need later. 

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I don't want to trade Ferland. I still hope we can work something out. But we can't over-term him, and someone probably will, and he should take that. 

 

But a first rounder is a very good return, especially if it ends up being mid round. 

 

Apparently in 2016 and 2017 no one gave up a single first rounder in a deadline deal. Last year a bunch moved, but I'm not sure any were for rentals? Maybe they were, not sure. Still, over the past 3 years combined teams have been very stingy about giving up first rounders for rentals. 

 

I do agree that late first rounders really start to get more dicey, almost like second rounders, but then again, at some point we could add that pick into a bigger deal for a better player too. I've loved the idea of packing two picks and trying to move up, but that seems to be easier said than done. 

 

If we can get a first rounder though, it will be tough to pass up.

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33 minutes ago, remkin said:

Last year a bunch moved, but I'm not sure any were for rentals? 

Boston to the Rags for Rick Nash...didn’t work out for them 

Vegas to Detroit for Tatar...he walked at the end of the season.

Winnipeg to Blues for Statsny...he walks to Vegas 

 

Noticing a pattern? ;)

Edited by AWACSooner

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1 hour ago, AWACSooner said:

Boston to the Rags for Rick Nash...didn’t work out for them 

Vegas to Detroit for Tatar...he walked at the end of the season.

Winnipeg to Blues for Statsny...he walks to Vegas 

 

Noticing a pattern? ;)

Tatar was traded to Montreal in the Patches swap. Tatar fell out of favor with LV during their run and was basically a cap throw in. Tatar is doing well in Montreal and makes losing Patches easy.

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18 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

Between Faulk, Dougie, and Pesce, I believe 2 outta 3 won’t be here in a month...and I hope we keep Pesce.

I wouldn't trade Pesce no way no how. Pesce is only 22 and locked in for another 5 years. One of the most underated D Men in the NHL and not even close to his prime. Faulk or Dougie I'm fine in moving for a nice return.

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Favorite player or not, if Pesce brings the return we need, you do it.  That said, i don't think he brings back what he's worth to us - i simply don't think GMs put as much value on defensive defensemen as they do offensive defensemen (see for instance 'nominations, all-star'), so i think either Hamilton or Faulk yield a bigger return.  If KGretz starts dangling Draisaitl in front of DW for Pesce, you do it, but i think it's going to take 19 or 27 to get a forward of comparable value.

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1 hour ago, realmdrakkar said:

Favorite player or not, if Pesce brings the return we need, you do it.  That said, i don't think he brings back what he's worth to us - i simply don't think GMs put as much value on defensive defensemen as they do offensive defensemen (see for instance 'nominations, all-star'), so i think either Hamilton or Faulk yield a bigger return.  If KGretz starts dangling Draisaitl in front of DW for Pesce, you do it, but i think it's going to take 19 or 27 to get a forward of comparable value.

Dont know if I agree or not. The All-star voting is a little different because fans like goals so its smarter to put offensive D in the ASG but I am sure GM's realize what a good D Dman is worth and also value consistency. I think GM's value that pretty highly. You might be right but I think the return for Pesce would be more then either Faulk or Hamilton. Personally I would rather keep 22 but again think he would bring more back. 

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15 hours ago, remkin said:

I don't want to trade Ferland. I still hope we can work something out. But we can't over-term him, and someone probably will, and he should take that. 

 

But a first rounder is a very good return, especially if it ends up being mid round. 

 

Apparently in 2016 and 2017 no one gave up a single first rounder in a deadline deal. Last year a bunch moved, but I'm not sure any were for rentals? Maybe they were, not sure. Still, over the past 3 years combined teams have been very stingy about giving up first rounders for rentals. 

 

I do agree that late first rounders really start to get more dicey, almost like second rounders, but then again, at some point we could add that pick into a bigger deal for a better player too. I've loved the idea of packing two picks and trying to move up, but that seems to be easier said than done. 

 

If we can get a first rounder though, it will be tough to pass up.

Since I keep reading how much chance is involved in the draft and who we could have drafted in the years we drafted Dmen such as Murphy, Fleury, Hanfan, and Bean in the 1st round (as opposed to Faulk, Slavin and Pesce in later rounds), let me just say that getting a mid to late 1st round draft pick for Ferland does not impress me.  First preference is to sign him, even at what the team considers a slight overpay.  When you get a player who performs and wins over the fanbase in such a short amount of time as Ferland has, that is impressive.  Second preference is to trade him for an equal asset under contract.  Third preference would be to just let him stay, play out the contract, and GO FOR IT (playoffs).  Build some culture, and maybe even continue to try and sign him after the deadline.

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50 minutes ago, Derailed75 said:

Dont know if I agree or not. The All-star voting is a little different because fans like goals so its smarter to put offensive D in the ASG but I am sure GM's realize what a good D Dman is worth and also value consistency. I think GM's value that pretty highly. You might be right but I think the return for Pesce would be more then either Faulk or Hamilton. Personally I would rather keep 22 but again think he would bring more back. 

 

 

You may be right as well.  Like i said, if Pesce brings back a Draisaitl, you have to do it.  I just don't have the faith many GMs look past the bright, shiny object known as 'offensive defenseman'.

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