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In-season trades and player moves

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42 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

You may be right as well.  Like i said, if Pesce brings back a Draisaitl, you have to do it.  I just don't have the faith many GMs look past the bright, shiny object known as 'offensive defenseman'.

Yup we are all just guessing. Would be nice to sit in on a day with a FO and see it work un filtered without all the standard "keeping it close to the vest" stuff

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1 hour ago, beboplar said:

Since I keep reading how much chance is involved in the draft and who we could have drafted in the years we drafted Dmen such as Murphy, Fleury, Hanfan, and Bean in the 1st round (as opposed to Faulk, Slavin and Pesce in later rounds), let me just say that getting a mid to late 1st round draft pick for Ferland does not impress me.  

That is a fair point to be sure. It's a matter of playing the odds. The higher the pick the more likely they will be good, but exceptions to the rule are everywhere. That's in part, though, because so many players are drafted. 

 

Slavin and Pesce are huge outliers, even for this team. Hanifin may not be a World beater yet, but then neither was Lindholm. Many years of dissing him and now he's at the top of the league. Not many of our 4th rounders are. Bean and Fleury are yet to be determined. D men take longer. (Slavin and Pesce played multiple years in college before getting here). Bean is coming on strong in Charlotte with 4 goals in 4 games and #6 in goals in the AHL. Murphy. Saaaawinnnnng and a miss! For sure. Its still too soon to bail on Gauthier too. 

 

But that first rounder can in theory be traded too. 

 

Mid first rounders are the mushy middle of huge hits and misses. Lower first rounders start to get into the second round more misses than hits. But 1/4 second rounders has any decent NHL career and 12% of the combined 3,4,5,6,7 play 200 NHL games.

 

2015 Draft was full of stars drafted mid-mid late. Rantanen 10, Barzal 16, Conner 17, Chabot 18, Besser 23. And at the top, McDavid, Eichel, Marner, Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski, Meir. 2015 third and fourth round? I don't recognize any names not in our system. 

 

Anyways the point of drafting being hit or miss is entirely valid though. Also, it gets much harder later in the first round. Frankly if we end up with a late first round pick, I'd strongly lean to going goalie since that almost always gets you the most promising goalie in the draft. 

 

We have been drafting better though IMO. Since Murphy there have been no clean misses (Gauthier still pending), and we've drafted Aho, Necas, Svech, Fleury, Lindholm, Foegele (3rd rounder), Pesce, Slavin, Hanifin, McGinn and Bean all in the NHL, or going to be, and some decent prospects on top of that. 

 

And again, it's very hard to pull off, but if it's me, I would just love to combine say the #18 and #14 pick and even one of the second rounders, and move up. 

 

Anyways, I'm all for keep Ferland if at all possible. So long as we can sign Aho, sign a #1 goalie, pay the difference between the D moving out and the elite forward moving in, and pay Necas and Svech three years from now? Then keep him. 

 

Finally this is supposedly a fairly deep draft, especially through about #15, so a first rounder is better than a kick in the cods.

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8 minutes ago, sleekfeeder said:

Welp, Pens made their move. Scratch another potential trade partner off the list.

Very weird deal.  Bjud is big dude but kind of slow. Did almost score 20 though.  What we thought Z was going to be.

 

panthers cap dumping for the future?  They got two expiring contracts and 3 picks.

 

JR really knows how to keep a farm down.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, sleekfeeder said:

Welp, Pens made their move. Scratch another potential trade partner off the list.

 

There is some speculation Florida might flip Brassard before trade deadline. I wonder if we might be interested?

 

Quote

 

*Breaking News* As per sources Trade Sheahan ,Brassard, 2nd & 2 4th Rd Picks in 2019 to for Bjugstad & McCann.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Derailed75 said:

Dont know if I agree or not. The All-star voting is a little different because fans like goals so its smarter to put offensive D in the ASG but I am sure GM's realize what a good D Dman is worth and also value consistency. I think GM's value that pretty highly. You might be right but I think the return for Pesce would be more then either Faulk or Hamilton. Personally I would rather keep 22 but again think he would bring more back. 

All I know is that we have plenty of data showing that Pesce and Slavin are both better together than with any other partner. The fact that some are okay with moving Pesce but not Slavin makes no sense. By splitting them up at all, you are giving up the only shutdown pairing this team has. Stupid, any way you slice it.

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1 hour ago, OBXer said:

This trade just doesn't make sense or does it? Has to be more coming.

It doesn't to me. Pitt getting two centers? Rumors were Pitt was sniffing around Ferland. If it is known internally we cant sign him do we get something from Pitt?

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4 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

It doesn't to me. Pitt getting two centers? Rumors were Pitt was sniffing around Ferland. If it is known internally we cant sign him do we get something from Pitt?

 

Maybe. We have a lot to keep us guessing over the next few weeks.

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

All I know is that we have plenty of data showing that Pesce and Slavin are both better together than with any other partner. The fact that some are okay with moving Pesce but not Slavin makes no sense. By splitting them up at all, you are giving up the only shutdown pairing this team has. Stupid, any way you slice it.

The only thing that makes me ok with it was the stretch early in the season when Pesce was out. Despite the team not scoring the D played just as good without him as it did with him even Slavin. Maybe it was just a "stepping up" thing IDK but he wasnt missed on the ice in that stretch.

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13 minutes ago, Derailed75 said:

The only thing that makes me ok with it was the stretch early in the season when Pesce was out. Despite the team not scoring the D played just as good without him as it did with him even Slavin. Maybe it was just a "stepping up" thing IDK but he wasnt missed on the ice in that stretch.

I hear ya, but he and Slavin are both on great deals. It's a crime that we still have Faulk, but it was somewhat understandable given the crappy D-side work he had done for the past three years. Now he's shown he can do it, he will never have more value. Let's move him before he regresses again, and make him keep proving it--to some lucky new team. And let them deal with his next negotiation.

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1 hour ago, slapshot02 said:

It doesn't to me. Pitt getting two centers? Rumors were Pitt was sniffing around Ferland. If it is known internally we cant sign him do we get something from Pitt?

Like one of those two centers they just acquired?

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2 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I hear ya, but he and Slavin are both on great deals. It's a crime that we still have Faulk, but it was somewhat understandable given the crappy D-side work he had done for the past three years. Now he's shown he can do it, he will never have more value. Let's move him before he regresses again, and make him keep proving it--to some lucky new team. And let them deal with his next negotiation.

I get that. To me its a question of what makes the team better long term. Faulk and the return for Pesce or Pesce and the return for Faulk. That all depends on what Donnie can talk the other GM out of, and we all thought that was nothing until he ripped off Minny

Edited by Derailed75

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14 minutes ago, Derailed75 said:

I get that. To me its a question of what makes the team better long term. Faulk and the return for Pesce or Pesce and the return for Faulk. That all depends on what Donnie can talk the other GM out of.

And I take your point too. I just know that this team has not had a shutdown pair in so long it has forgotten how to use one. Literally: Just look at today's line combos. Put Pesce with Slavin instead of splitting them up, and you could roll that top line of Svech, Aho, and TT, and still have complete confidence that your backside is covered. This is a game against a goalie with minimal NHL experience. It could be a gift: If you come out fast, it could be over by the first intermission. Instead we're "spreading the talent"--on home ice, where we get the last change? Sure, let's get the best return we can--but for Faulk. If that forces Roddy to use his shutdown pair like it was intended to be used, the result will be more goals, no matter who is comes back.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Like one of those two centers they just acquired?

Well Bjugstad has been around 50 % on FO. Adds more beef in the center and can chip in a few goals. 

Edited by slapshot02

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

And I take your point too. I just know that this team has not had a shutdown pair in so long it has forgotten how to use one. Literally: Just look at today's line combos. Put Pesce with Slavin instead of splitting them up, and you could roll that top line of Svech, Aho, and TT, and still have complete confidence that your backside is covered. This is a game against a goalie with minimal NHL experience. It could be a gift: If you come out fast, it could be over by the first intermission. Instead we're "spreading the talent"--on home ice, where we get the last change? Sure, let's get the best return we can--but for Faulk. If that forces Roddy to use his shutdown pair like it was intended to be used, the result will be more goals, no matter who is comes back.

 

That was my hope we would come out full bore catch them flat and chase an unexperienced goalie. It's worth a shot for a few shifts if not for a period.

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1 hour ago, slapshot02 said:

That was my hope we would come out full bore catch them flat and chase an unexperienced goalie. It's worth a shot for a few shifts if not for a period.

The other thought though is have all 4 lines put pressure on him so he has no time to catch his breath. So you spread them out

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IMO Faulk has improved a lot and I like what he brings. I would rather see Hamilton moved. Call me greedy but don’t move Pesce either. Most teams wanting them are not going to give us a good roster player anyway. Better deals happen in the off season. 

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1 hour ago, Canes06cup17 said:

IMO Faulk has improved a lot and I like what he brings. I would rather see Hamilton moved. Call me greedy but don’t move Pesce either. Most teams wanting them are not going to give us a good roster player anyway. Better deals happen in the off season. 

 

I gave on take on this in the GDT, but basically, I agree. My only caveat is that Dougy seems to be playing better lately. I'm just guessing, but both personality and being a true offensive D man, it could take a guy longer to settle into the new team. Further, Faulk took 4 years to fix his game, Dougy might need at least a couple of months. 

 

Still, Faulk has so tightened his game, that unless he regresses, Pesce/Faulk/Fox(eventually) could anchor that right side for a long time and I'd be fine with it. Faulk needs to keep this game going. But I'm not sure why he wouldn't. 

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26 minutes ago, remkin said:

 

I gave on take on this in the GDT, but basically, I agree. My only caveat is that Dougy seems to be playing better lately. I'm just guessing, but both personality and being a true offensive D man, it could take a guy longer to settle into the new team. Further, Faulk took 4 years to fix his game, Dougy might need at least a couple of months. 

 

Still, Faulk has so tightened his game, that unless he regresses, Pesce/Faulk/Fox(eventually) could anchor that right side for a long time and I'd be fine with it. Faulk needs to keep this game going. But I'm not sure why he wouldn't. 

Is Faulk looking for a 20 goal scoring defender type pay day or only a modest raise because he hasn’t shown that to be a regular possibility 

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1 minute ago, gocanes0506 said:

Is Faulk looking for a 20 goal scoring defender type pay day or only a modest raise because he hasn’t shown that to be a regular possibility 

I have no idea. I get your point though. He may be looking for a raise and only has next year left on his deal. In terms of contract situation, next year he will be Skinner. Not sure we can know what he will be looking for. 

 

I do wonder if the "rental plus one year" status lowers his trade value too though. 

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

I have no idea. I get your point though. He may be looking for a raise and only has next year left on his deal. In terms of contract situation, next year he will be Skinner. Not sure we can know what he will be looking for. 

 

I do wonder if the "rental plus one year" status lowers his trade value too though. 

 

 

Does Cliff Pu have a brother?  Trade Faulk to the team we're fighting for a wildcard spot for him this summer (rather than hold on to him and trade him for more at the trade deadline) and we're golden...

 

Sorry, my grapes are still sour.  I still think Faulk/Hamilton have the greatest trade values of all of our RHDs so do the thing.

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8 hours ago, Canes06cup17 said:

IMO Faulk has improved a lot and I like what he brings. I would rather see Hamilton moved. Call me greedy but don’t move Pesce either. Most teams wanting them are not going to give us a good roster player anyway. Better deals happen in the off season. 

Does Faulk’s contract start to become an issue the longer we wait? Just one year left. If he continues his stronger play, we may not be able to afford him, or he may feel, like Ferland, that he should go all the way to UFA since this is probably his last best chance to cash in. And will a glut of RHD keep Fox in college? All of this makes my head spin, and I don’t honestly know how to sort it out. After the Nino deal, signing Turbo, and signing Martinook, I feel a little more like our management may have a clue, so I’ll just wait to see how they sort this out. With Fleury, Bean and maybe Fox, we look to have 9 D that could be considered NHL ready next year. I hope they have a plan to maximize what we’ve got.

 

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6 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

Does Cliff Pu have a brother?  

 

You know the thing that sucks to me (well one of them) is that if we'd have gotten a minimum fair deal we'd have Buffalo's first rounder. As they fall, at least we'd have what could be a decent second pick.in the first round.

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