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Come one and all to "discuss" the Skinner Trade (and only here)

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Getting him off the books ASAP because that was more-important than losing him for absolutely nothing after another season of him being our only pure goal-scorer.  I'd agree with it had the Canes got anything substantial for him this summer, but since they pretty much got nothing anyway, i'm still shaking my head.

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Trading Skinner for a bag of Puu was the 1st indicator that or new owner and Waddell the “price club shoppers” GM. (Or loaded and unwilling to spend it)  Skinner definitely got the last laugh. (Makes me nauseous) 🤬

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Two more goals, including another game winner. 2nd behind Ovie in goals. Tied still for the league lead in +/- at + 21. 

 

Right there with him? Lindholm with 17 goals and I believe also +21. Our problem is not putting complementary players with our guys. Hopefully they learn as Svech develops or we’ll be watching him still on the third line four years from now with career AHLers.

Edited by caneswincup
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5 hours ago, caneswincup said:

Our problem is not putting complementary players with our guys.

This.

 

This org has been stuck on trying to duplicate the un-duplicatable since '06, when a bunch of - sorry - has-beens, who were hungry and tired of not getting over the mountain, seasoned with a couple of young stars with finish, not only climbed said mountain but conquered it. I don't like it when it people (okay... Canadians...) use the word "fluke" to explain it away, because it was more like destiny.

 

But ever since, key leaders of this org with an intimate connection to that year have kept themselves handcuffed by the idea that the right mix of experience and talent and "playing the right way" can repeat that climb. They have waited (too) patiently for those elements to materialize and coalesce in another long, fine, improbable flash--despite ample evidence that NOT SPENDING, PARTICULARLY REFUSING TO PAY GUYS TO DO WHAT THEY DO BEST, is the problem. 

 

Yeah, let's give Skinner away. Sure, let's move Lindholm and Hanifin. Along with anybody else who wants to get paid... because we certainly can't have THAT! Or any other Nice Things. Whalers jerseys, yeah. Siren crankers, sure. $8 dollar beers, absolutely. 

 

Cheaters. Gimmicks. Never. Win.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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:goodpost: top-shelf's first this morning.  Second one too, except I hate to read it because it ticks me off.  :)

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

This.

 

This org has been stuck on trying to duplicate the un-duplicatable since '06, when a bunch of - sorry - has-beens, who were hungry and tired of not getting over the mountain, seasoned with a couple of young stars with finish, not only climbed said mountain but conquered it. I don't like it when it people (okay... Canadians...) use the word "fluke" to explain it away, because it was more like destiny.

 

But ever since, key leaders of this org with an intimate connection to that year have kept themselves handcuffed by the idea that the right mix of experience and talent and "playing the right way" can repeat that climb. They have waited (too) patiently for those elements to materialize and coalesce in another long, fine, improbable flash--despite ample evidence that NOT SPENDING, PARTICULARLY REFUSING TO PAY GUYS TO DO WHAT THEY DO BEST, is the problem. 

 

Yeah, let's give Skinner away. Sure, let's move Lindholm and Hanifin. Along with anybody else who wants to get paid... because we certainly can't have THAT! Or any other Nice Things. Whalers jerseys, yeah. Siren crankers, sure. $8 dollar beers, absolutely. 

 

Cheaters. Gimmicks. Never. Win.

 

Where are those 8 dollar beers? Mine have been running 13 dollars.

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44 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

Try this one in for size.  Skinner is no longer a part if the team.   It is time to let it go and move on.

AMen to that-  Living in the past keeps you there.  OMG I agree with you BD58.  Merry Christmas.  LOL

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23 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Where are those 8 dollar beers? Mine have been running 13 dollars.

Thems the baby beers

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Guys,

Has it occurred to any of you that there stood a good chance that Skinner, Hanifin and Lindholm...had they not been traded...be here doing the same mediocre play here this season as they’ve been doing the past few seasons?  But instead, they’re playing with chips on their shoulders (see: Vegas, last year) this season because how dare someone trade them.  It’ll be next year and the season thereafter that will make the difference...and frankly, I think Skinner has a significant drop off next season after scamming a team into massively overpaying him...just like he did to us years ago.

 

But yah, being mad at the return on his trade is legit...cause that was an abject disaster.

Edited by AWACSooner
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As for the Lindholm-Hanifin trade, right now, if we take it straight up, we look to be on the wrong side of it. But it doesn't help that Ferland is out, because that guy was scoring goals at a 36 goal pace, and hitting things hard, and bringing a great attitude. Hamilton has looked like old Faulk so far but I'd still say it's too early to throw the towel in on him. But that guy Fox is the key to decimating that trade from our end. He surely appears to be that rarest of things that we have never really had, a truly elite all around offense creator from the back end. In some ways, the signing or failing to sign Fox (and IMO by extension, moving a roster D man for O and to make room) will likely be the major pivot in how this committee looks down the road. 

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Skinner and Lindhom's success, I mainly agree with points made, but take slight issue with a trope. I think their success points to the theory of having multiple high skilled players and putting them together to let them play at each other's high level for a scoring synergy. I'm not sure if we really had the guys for that. We've been high end talent 'o penic for a while. I'll continue to argue that the cup team was not a fluke. Maybe guys were all at their peak, but also it was the synergy of multiple talented guys on the same team on the same lines. Ray Whitney was not a grinder the guy put up 83 points that year, but put up 77 twice more including at 40 years old (or almost).  Stillman in his prime was a very slick player who actually had a better year the year before. Justin Williams? Rod Brind'Amour, Eric Staal in his prime, Eric Cole? Our third line center Matt Cullen is still playing at 42 for crying out loud. And that's before adding Marc Recci and Doug Weight. Come on.

 

My point is that Skinner is playing with generational talent Eichel, and Lindholm with two elite players. We really didn't have that. Aho is arguably there, but neither guy seemed to mesh with him, and he was still rising. I don't know if they could have this year. In Lindholm's case he had 5 years, 45 points max, never hit 20 goals, and was -70. We got Hamilton and Ferland. So that one is at least tolerable. Skinner though, we got what might amount to literally nothing (or it might not), for a guy who had one bad year out of the last 3. 

 

So yes, the namesake of this thread is making that look really really bad. Would his supposedly bad habits have dragged this whole team down this year more than his guaranteed at least 24 goals? I doubt it. But that was the idea. I guess it's unprovable, but I'd say that even if he would not have busted out here, and "only" put up 24 goals, this team could really use those and this remains a very questionable move at best.

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25 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Has it occurred to any of you that there stood a good chance that Skinner, Hanifin and Lindholm...has they not been traded...be here doing the same mediocre play here this season as they’ve been doing the past few seasons?

 

 

I'm still not down on the trade with Calgary because it was a classic "hockey" trade, but concerning Skinner, i'd gladly take his mediocre play of 24, 37, and 28 goals over the past 3 seasons right about now.

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2 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

I'm still not down on the trade with Calgary because it was a classic "hockey" trade

It was, but I'm down on it because of the motivation behind it. If we'll only make "classic hockey trades" when the guys we want to move are asking to get paid--and thus far I've seen little evidence to the contrary--it ceases to be a classic hockey trade, and instead becomes a public hosing. 

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6 hours ago, wxray1 said:

:goodpost: top-shelf's first this morning.  Second one too, except I hate to read it because it ticks me off.  :)

Thanks xray. I aims to please. NOT.

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I'm not buying that the Hanifin / Lindy trade was primarily money related.  There were 3 primary needs identified offseason.

  1. Goalie
  2. Increased toughness
  3. Increased scoring

Hamilton was presumably one of the premier scoring d-men in the league.  Ferland looked to score a bit more than Lindy, but more importantly bring the toughness that the Canes have been so badly lacking.  Getting those 2 was going to require nothing less than a true hockey trade.   I can see where contract impasses may have contributed to Hanifin and Lindy becoming the players used to get what we were after, but not as the primary reasons they were traded.

 

Now, Skinner?  :wacko::facepalm2::dizzy: 

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Regarding Skinner, I find it humorous several on here posted that this was an addition by subtraction and the right move.  The thought was that because Skinner was gone there would be less goals scored against us.  Then the scoring stops and these people change their tune. Very interesting. 

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Top, I agree that Hanifin was likely moved because his asking price seemed to indicate an attitude of entitlement, or so the discussion on these boards seemed to indicate. But, I got the impression that Lindholm was the piece we gave up to make the deal happen and balance the trade. Unless I have missed something Ferland only plays wing where Lindy can play center and had been showing some good defensive chops and hard work. He was redundant with Jordan and Victor on the books and became the piece Calgary wanted. I wouldn't take an injured Rask over him and Staal has a NMC.

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7 hours ago, remkin said:

But that guy Fox is the key to decimating that trade from our end. He surely appears to be that rarest of things that we have never really had, a truly elite all around offense creator from the back end. In some ways, the signing or failing to sign Fox (and IMO by extension, moving a roster D man for O and to make room) will likely be the major pivot in how this committee looks down the road. 

 

As far as the Calgary trade, Peters was pushing hard to acquire Lindholm as well, and I thought at the time it was believed he "evened" out the deal.  Too early to say if the trade turns out to be even or lopsided either way.  I agree, Fox is an incredible talent and could really move the needle on that trade.  Hope we get him signed. 

Edited by coastal_caniac
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The key to getting Fox signed is the quickest path to the league. He has disputed the rumors of going to the Rangers.

 

to satisfy the quickest path to the league we’d have to move 2 RHDs.  

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2 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

The key to getting Fox signed is the quickest path to the league. He has disputed the rumors of going to the Rangers.

 

to satisfy the quickest path to the league we’d have to move 2 RHDs.  

Agree, That's what I've been prattling on about. I think that has been the plan, but we've been thusfar unable to execute it. 

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