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gocanes0506

Come one and all to "discuss" the Skinner Trade (and only here)

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The quickest path will more than likely still be with us. He would still need to play another year with Harvard before we lose his rights. I would assume he would then sign with a team promising him open day roster availability.

 

with us, he can sign after his college season. He can come in and try to prove himself in camp.  He would be the first RHD call up. Which is still quicker than playing another year at Harvard.

Edited by gocanes0506

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One more conspiracy theory. Maybe at the 3nd of last season Skinner just told TD at al that he is completely fed up with playing in 3rd line with AHLers, not playing in OTs, with that captaincy stuff (and I think he had rights to question those decisions) and made it clear he will not sign with Canes. And because of that committee decided to trade him ASAP regardless of return.

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2 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

I'm not buying that the Hanifin / Lindy trade was primarily money related.  

Respectfully disagree. Who has TD paid? Okay, de Haan. Not for top managers or proven coaches. Not Lindholm, Hanifin or Skinner. No extension for Aho or Turbo. Ferland is a UFA after this year. Let’s wait and see how that works out. And with our logjam at RHD and organizational flaws (like no playoffs and not getting top young players signed), I wouldn’t bet Fox is chomping at the bit to sign here. If Fox doesn’t sign and Ferland walks as a UFA, how’s that trade going to look? If I didn’t miss something, our “braintrust” traded away the 3 highest drafted players in the organization before we drafted Svech. In other words the 3 most likely to fetch the biggest paydays as they matured as players.

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I would agree that we need to sign Ferland and that could get dicey. Hopefully not, but he has been putting together a breakout season for us, and that will up his price tag. But in response to bluedevilcane, if Fox does not sign and Ferland goes UFA it becomes Hanifin and Lindholm for Hamilton, and at least right now, that would not tilt our way.

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11 hours ago, cc said:

AMen to that-  Living in the past keeps you there.  OMG I agree with you BD58.  Merry Christmas.  LOL

 

George Santayana, the Spanish-born American philosopher/essayist/poet/novelist, said in 1905 -

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 

Sounds like Hurricanes' management to a T.

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2 hours ago, Bonivan said:

One more conspiracy theory. Maybe at the 3nd of last season Skinner just told TD at al that he is completely fed up with playing in 3rd line with AHLers, not playing in OTs, with that captaincy stuff (and I think he had rights to question those decisions) and made it clear he will not sign with Canes. And because of that committee decided to trade him ASAP regardless of return.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if this were true. It fits with the "you're with us or you're against us" mentality that TD has espoused in the past.

 

Most of us in what we think of as "real life" don't have the ability to say "hey, you're not treating me right" and accept a trade to a different employer. When you're in a position to have that advantage, one would be foolish to not exercise it.

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3 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

Respectfully disagree. Who has TD paid? Okay, de Haan. Not for top managers or proven coaches. Not Lindholm, Hanifin or Skinner. No extension for Aho or Turbo. Ferland is a UFA after this year. Let’s wait and see how that works out. And with our logjam at RHD and organizational flaws (like no playoffs and not getting top young players signed), I wouldn’t bet Fox is chomping at the bit to sign here. If Fox doesn’t sign and Ferland walks as a UFA, how’s that trade going to look? If I didn’t miss something, our “braintrust” traded away the 3 highest drafted players in the organization before we drafted Svech. In other words the 3 most likely to fetch the biggest paydays as they matured as players.

 

Well, we're both speculating. TD has said he'll invest in on-ice talent. I agree that we haven't seen it yet, but consider the following.

 

  • As far as UFAs last summer, who else except deHaan was worth signing?  We need to spend wisely, not spend just to spend.  Given the quality of last year's crop of UFAs, most would have been in the latter category imo.  Next summer will be the real indicator.
  • This season Hamilton-Ferland are cheaper than Hanifin-Lindy.  But if we re-sign Ferland we'll probably end up paying more for the duo we got than the duo we gave up. Now, if we don't re-sign Ferland, sure, that will support your position, but that's still to be determined . 
  • Fox has reportedly said he wants to play in the NHL as soon as possible.  That's 1 year sooner with the Canes than going the FA route.  Again, we'll find out soon. 
  • The Skinner move made so little sense to me that I've got to believe there was more involved than just $.  Personalities, culture, whatever, but I'd be surprised if TD was just looking to shed $6m in salary this year, especially after giving a defensive defenseman $4.5m . But who knows?
  • As far as I know there hasn't been talk of problems with extending Aho or Turbo.  Until it becomes a distraction (or we get close to next season), I'm not ready to assume it's going to be an issue.  The fact that Turbo hasn't been signed yet may be a good thing; he's playing "cheaper" this year than last.  And if we had to pay Aho based on his first 10 games this year we'd be in trouble.

To me the verdict is still very much up in the air and this summer will show whether TD is willing to back up his words with actions.  Sure, it could go either way.  But one thing I bet we do agree on is that we both hope that the lack of spending so far is more due to factors other than just TD being cheap.  The last thing we need is an extension of the latter JR years!

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9 hours ago, slapshot02 said:

I just can't drink watered down beer.

The first time I ordered a Sierra Nevada in Mrs. Shelf's presence was about six months after we'd met. We were in Ocracoke and had just come from the beach. Shortly after our drinks arrived, she leaned across the table and whispered, "Baby, do you smell that? It's like somebody just got off the basketball court and took their shoes off!"

 

I didn't say a word, just slid my my beer over to her.

 

"Oh my God! How can you drink that??" 

 

"Take a sip," I invited her.

 

After she gagged, wiped her tongue on a napkin, drank a glass of water, and returned to nursing her Girls--er, Coors--Light, I assured her that it's an acquired taste, but once acquired, you never look back.

 

Thirteen years later, Mrs. Shelf loves a good IPA. When they did the "Dilly-Dilly cam" at Friday's game, we just looked at each other and shrugged, like, "Really?" 

 

To this day, in our house, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is known as "stinky feet beer."

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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12 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

I'm not buying that the Hanifin / Lindy trade was primarily money related.  

 

12 hours ago, DevildogKodi said:

But, I got the impression that Lindholm was the piece we gave up to make the deal happen and balance the trade.

No, and no. How soon we forget:

https://www.canescountry.com/2018/6/22/17493312/report-carolina-hurricanes-and-elias-lindholm-still-far-apart-on-contract-extension-rumors-trade-nhl

 

Further, IIRC, Lindy's ask here and what he eventually agreed to in Calgary were a few hundred grand different. Which tells me Mr. Dundon doesn't understand the finer points of negotiation, i.e., "We're starting here, you're starting there, and the result will be somewhere between those extremes."

 

Others (bluedevilcane most prominently, I believe) have mentioned his M.O. in building Santander into a behemoth in subprime auto lending as perhaps explaining his no-nonsense approach, and until lately, I've refused to buy it. But when I look at his short but already very ugly track record here--moving Lindy after mere weeks (if that) of talks, his ridiculous comments about UFAs never being worth the price (never is a long, long time), moving Skinner for absolutely nothing, his bluster about "never" drafting D high again (again, never is...), and now months of not committing to arguably the most skilled player (let alone the most dynamic duo) this org has ever seen--I'm beginning to wonder if the only "sports" this guy has paid any attention to is whatever game's on his TV, and maybe the $5 Nassau he plays with his buddies every weekend in Houston.

 

Whether Tom Dundon likes it or not, once you buy into the Bigs, there's a game played at the bargaining table too, and as Steve Forbert put it...

 

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

The first time I ordered a Sierra Nevada in Mrs. Shelf's presence was about six months after we'd met. We were in Ocracoke and had just come from the beach. Shortly after our drinks arrived, she leaned across the table and whispered, "Baby, do you smell that? It's like somebody just got off the basketball court and took their shoes off!"

 

 

She calls you "Baby"?   :)

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On 12/18/2018 at 6:00 PM, gocanes0506 said:

The key to getting Fox signed is the quickest path to the league.

Great, let's do that again (coughHanifincoughNecascough).

 

Will the Canes ever learn that guaranteeing an NHL roster spot to someone totally unproven at this level is folly? Maybe. But apparently, not yet.

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Great, let's do that again (coughHanifincoughNecascough).

 

Will the Canes ever learn that guaranteeing an NHL roster spot to someone totally unproven at this level is folly? Maybe. But apparently, not yet.

Yet they sent Necas back down before he burned his contract year.  Necas also played in the Czech league last season.  That point seems mute. His situation is different than Hanifin’s and Lindholm’s.

 

As i explained in the post, his path with us is still quicker, even if he goes to the AHL first, than trying to go the FA route.  Quickest route to the NHL doesn’t equal playing in the league this season or even the beginning of next.  Could though if he is ready.  

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5 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Could though if he is ready.

Including if another team tells him he is, which our brain trust (very loosely, I'm using that term...) will match, much like the org elevated Hanifin, was my point.

 

And re my point on Necas--that we counted on him being roster ready and he wasn't, and didn't have a plan B-- is the same in that we left Han and Lindy on the roster--no plan B. i

 

(And even if it's pointless to you, it is not mute, but moot.) Unless you're Joey Tribbiani.

 

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On 12/20/2018 at 3:30 PM, top-shelf-1 said:

Including if another team tells him he is, which our brain trust (very loosely, I'm using that term...) will match, much like the org elevated Hanifin, was my point.

 

And re my point on Necas--that we counted on him being roster ready and he wasn't, and didn't have a plan B-- is the same in that we left Han and Lindy on the roster--no plan B. i

 

(And even if it's pointless to you, it is not mute, but moot.) Unless you're Joey Tribbiani.

 

 

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It would be nice if we could put this thread where it belongs in "Once they were Canes".  I for one abhor livinging in the past.

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Why couldn't we just figure out how to friggin' use this guy? :bag::pullhair:

As they give out an award for GM of the year, we should all recognize the worst as well. I think I know at least one of the nominees. 

Edited by sleekfeeder

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1 hour ago, sleekfeeder said:

Why couldn't we just figure out how to friggin' use this guy? :bag::pullhair:

As they give out an award for GM of the year, we should all recognize the worst as well. I think I know at least one of the nominees. 

We could and there were at two other seasons he deserved AS consideration. 

 

We knew how best to use him (see how he was used with legitimate players his rookie year). Our problem was we buried him in excuses because we were too cheap to put complementary players around him.

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For all interested:

 

first 35 games 25Gs, 10 As, +23

last 15 games 6Gs, 4As, -8

 

his goals per game has cut from .71 to .4

 

Back to reality for him despite playing on the top line.

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Skinner has gone 13 games without a goal.  Now a minus player.  

 

Having him not on the team, even for an under sell, seems like the right move 

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I don't think you can cherry pick when he is doing great to say it was a terrible move any more than we can cherry pick when he goes 13 games without scoring to say it was a good move. 

 

The bottom line is the teams are configured differently and he is used differently so the situations are different.  Right now the Buffalo fans want to dump everyone from owner to every single player and all layers between.  If you are someone who enjoys misery of the enemy go read some of their discussion board material.

 

In the opinion of our team he wasn't right for us anymore.  That's the bottom line.  I was on the fence with that position when we made the trade and I am still there.  But I know that I don't know the whole story so how could I really know the true answer.   So for me it's just over.  Period. 

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10 minutes ago, hag65 said:

 So for me it's just over.  Period. 

hag, that's where I sit also, so thank you. Unlike you however, I was not on the fence on this, but I guess acceptant that "the move" was more about team than + or - goals. Like the majority on here, I believe, I was enthralled with Jeff's early years, and still think he likely is the best sniper the Canes have had, Aho not withstanding. In his early years, his skating was a sight to behold, yet he evolved into a one trick pony so to speak, and became "predictable". Label it what you want, not surrounding him with complementary players, moving him down to 3rd line, undermining him in public etc, the decision was reached that his style of play and Brind'Amour's were apparently mutually incompatible. Now, it's hard to deny that his close to 40 goals, if they could have been scored in the Canes' system, would not have resulted in a higher ranking presently, YET AT WHAT COST? How would his presence have affected the cohesion of the team that appears to be so critical right now? And, there's no doubt that it's regrettable that we could not have gotten a better return, yet Jeff, with his Limited/Full NTC can't remember which, was calling the shots here.

 

But all that is water under the bridge now, and I suppose I'm being hypocritical when I occasionally snicker learning that his goal scoring has/is showing its true colors, but then I don't revel in his or Buffalo's misery (well maybe a little in Buffalo's). As long as they are not playing us, I could care less if Jeff scored a hat trick every night? In my mind, the move to trade Jeff was made for the betterment of this Canes team, and as beautiful a skater as he is, I think the move was the right one.

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