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Come one and all to "discuss" the Skinner Trade (and only here)

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8 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

I don't revel in his or Buffalo's misery (well maybe a little in Buffalo's).

 

I spent an hour doing it, but I have a lot of friends in upstate NY and friends who are transplants from there,  and when the trade happened, and during his great run at the beginning of the season I took a lot of grief.  I was a good sport about it but I don't mind them getting hit by the karma bus a bit.

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Looks like all of those Skinner goals just got them a worse draft pick. Hmmm. Seems like I've read that book.

 

We could of course just give them Pu back, oh wait, we traded him. Never mind.

 

The big question now: will Buffalo quadruple down and pay Skinner Fat Stacks to stay? That's the part I'm glad we're not dealing with.

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Skinner popped in 2 goals in his last game to reach 40 and actually went a +3 over his last 3 games to finish even in plus/minus, his first non-minus year since his rookie season.  He’ll have his big payday coming, be interesting where and how much.

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3 hours ago, Red_Storm said:

Skinner popped in 2 goals in his last game to reach 40 and actually went a +3 over his last 3 games to finish even in plus/minus, his first non-minus year since his rookie season.  He’ll have his big payday coming, be interesting where and how much.

 

I took a peek and that's an even +- for Skinner on a Sabres team with a 45 goal deficit for the season.  On the one hand, Skinner was mostly playing on Eichel's line, but on the other, Eichel ended up at -11.  Tough to figure out what to make of Skinner's overall impact given the intangibles we're sensitive to, but you're right, he will get paid somewhere.

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Hey, Skinner had a great year. Now though is the sticky part that I think was a big part of what the committee wanted to avoid. 

 

Skinner is going to not only get paid but get term. Paying Skinner a lot of money for a long term, and watch, he will get some kind of NTC, is very risky. Not just the concussions, but the fact that he can fade into an offense-only game pretty quickly, and he is tough to match linemates with, but with what he's going to get paid, it will be hard not to have him in your top 6. 

 

Skinner is a very special and unique talent. I can remember going to games mainly to see what magic he might bring. But his magic never seemed to translate into sustained winning. I am much more optimistic that the games of the new stars of this team will translate into winning. Aho, Svech, TT, Nino, even Necas play both ends and make the plays that lead to winning. 

 

I will miss Skinner's sizzling talent, but I sooo glad we are not going to be the ones signing his checks for the next 7-8 years.

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14 minutes ago, remkin said:

I will miss Skinner's sizzling talent, but I sooo glad we are not going to be the ones signing his checks for the next 7-8 years.

 

 

Agreed, but i wish we had signed them for another year, considering all we got in exchange for him was a year's supply of Rice-a-roni.

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On 11/29/2018 at 9:24 AM, bluedevilcane said:

I agree with Rem. We look foolish right now, and maybe we were. But we are looking at a 25 game sample size. And you can’t ignore the concussion history and Jeff’s tendency to run hot and cold. Also, I think management may have known he had no intention of re-signing here. If he had stayed, who would be centering him and who would be on his line? Nothing close to Eichel. I just don’t think he would have anything like 19 goals if he was still here. As bad as the trade looks, it might be worse that we didn’t go out and get linemates for Skinner to maximize his talents. 

Honestly, I am surprised Jeff Skinner is getting one ounce of attention on this Canes forum.  The Canes were determined to bring a change of culture to a team that had not made the playoffs in 9 years, when it tried all summer to unload him.  They must have been looking to supplant one dimensional players such as Skinner with players with a more physical make-up such as Martinook, Ferland, and later, Nino.  It wouldn't matter if Skinner scored 60 goals.  The end result, without him, is a team that earned 99 points;  amazing!  They were only giving up one season, as they had no intention of resigning him.  While they have moved Pu on, maybe something will come from the picks, as one of them is early in the 2nd round.

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1 hour ago, realmdrakkar said:

Agreed, but i wish we had signed them for another year, considering all we got in exchange for him was a year's supply of Rice-a-roni.

 

Don’t forget, we got Buffalo’s second round pick this year, with their bad record, is fifth overall (and 2 more picks in 2020).  Canes scouting and drafting has improved, so that Rice-a-Roni may become a decent Prize Showcase yet...

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51 minutes ago, beboplar said:

Honestly, I am surprised Jeff Skinner is getting one ounce of attention on this Canes forum.  The Canes were determined to bring a change of culture to a team that had not made the playoffs in 9 years, when it tried all summer to unload him.  They must have been looking to supplant one dimensional players such as Skinner with players with a more physical make-up such as Martinook, Ferland, and later, Nino.  It wouldn't matter if Skinner scored 60 goals.  The end result, without him, is a team that earned 99 points;  amazing!  They were only giving up one season, as they had no intention of resigning him.  While they have moved Pu on, maybe something will come from the picks, as one of them is early in the 2nd round.

I agree with your points about Skinner, and posted my mea culpa about a lot of Waddell’s moves in another thread. But you do realize the quote you responded to was from November 29th, when Buffalo was on a tear, we couldn’t score goals and were not on anywhere near a 99 point pace. Interesting thing from my November 29 post is that Skinner already had 19 goals, and after scoring 2 in Buffalo’s last game, he finished with 40. So he had 19 in the first seven weeks of the season, and 21 in the remaining 4+ months. It is pretty clear Rod considered Skinner a one dimensional player we were better off without, and the results from the entire season proved him right. Wonder if Buffalo sees the same thing? It will be interesting to see if they pay him megabucks to re-sign, or if he hits the open market, what he gets. If we couldn’t get a first round pick for him, that tells me a lot of GMs saw the same player that Rod didn’t want.

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4 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

I agree with your points about Skinner, and posted my mea culpa about a lot of Waddell’s moves in another thread. But you do realize the quote you responded to was from November 29th, when Buffalo was on a tear, we couldn’t score goals and were not on anywhere near a 99 point pace. Interesting thing from my November 29 post is that Skinner already had 19 goals, and after scoring 2 in Buffalo’s last game, he finished with 40. So he had 19 in the first seven weeks of the season, and 21 in the remaining 4+ months. It is pretty clear Rod considered Skinner a one dimensional player we were better off without, and the results from the entire season proved him right. Wonder if Buffalo sees the same thing? It will be interesting to see if they pay him megabucks to re-sign, or if he hits the open market, what he gets. If we couldn’t get a first round pick for him, that tells me a lot of GMs saw the same player that Rod didn’t want.

The Canes had the For Sale sign on the front lawns of 3 properties last summer:  Skinner, Rask, and Faulk.  Not much interest in any.  I have been following this team since the Whalers were in the WHA, and I can tell you I have never been more surprised by ANY deal they have made in that time than the Nino/Rask trade.  They have a lot of flexibility this off season to build on what has been a great transition year.  I'm so excited I am buying my grand daughter some Whalers gear for her 1st birthday!

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6 hours ago, Red_Storm said:

Don’t forget, we got Buffalo’s second round pick this year, with their bad record, is fifth overall (and 2 more picks in 2020).  Canes scouting and drafting has improved, so that Rice-a-Roni may become a decent Prize Showcase yet...

 

Had forgotten that Red, thanks.

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10 hours ago, beboplar said:

The Canes had the For Sale sign on the front lawns of 3 properties last summer:  Skinner, Rask, and Faulk.  Not much interest in any.

 

 

Funny thing about the Rask and Skinner deals - had we traded Rask for Pu & 3 non-1st round picks and Skinner for Nino, i'd be smiling and profiling.  It's a head-scratcher to me that of the two, Rask returned the top-line player while Skinner returned spare parts.

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11 hours ago, beboplar said:

The Canes had the For Sale sign on the front lawns of 3 properties last summer:  Skinner, Rask, and Faulk.  Not much interest in any.  I have been following this team since the Whalers were in the WHA, and I can tell you I have never been more surprised by ANY deal they have made in that time than the Nino/Rask trade.  They have a lot of flexibility this off season to build on what has been a great transition year.  I'm so excited I am buying my grand daughter some Whalers gear for her 1st birthday!

There was interest in Skinner but Skinner controlled where he went. If I remember correctly, there we two teams he wanted to go to and one had cap issues and the other was Buffalo.  My assumption is the cap issue team was Toronto. The cap concern, presumably, was keeping him long term.

 

We were stuck with Buffalo with no negotiating power.  

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1 hour ago, gocanes0506 said:

There was interest in Skinner but Skinner controlled where he went. If I remember correctly, there we two teams he wanted to go to and one had cap issues and the other was Buffalo.  My assumption is the cap issue team was Toronto. The cap concern, presumably, was keeping him long term.

 

We were stuck with Buffalo with no negotiating power.  

Yep gocanes, that's how I recall it. So to set the record straight despite all the vilification and verbiage which surrounded this transaction, Don Waddell it seems was the victim of a "Perfect Storm" in this scenario. He inherited a player with a restricted "movement clause", thanks to a previous well meaning but delusional GM, who was a decidedly one way player, that could not or would not buy into a two way game, and because of this, had fallen into the dog house with the newly chosen Head Coach. Apparently the feeling  was that despite said player's huge fan appeal combined with his gifted scoring abilities, Waddell's new head coach, who BTW was tacitly anointed by his new team owner, felt like the oft demonstrated inability to get two way play from this offensively gifted player would taint his message of "defensive responsibility" to his team? Thus Waddell had to act in a less than favorably trade environment, ergo Pu and a 2nd + 3rd for this 40 goal scorer, and scorn from at least 50% of the fan base? In a perfect world, yes, holding out for a 1st or better player in the trade would have been the ideal thing to accomplish, but at that time, the stakes were greatly slanted against Waddell, and in favor it seems of Skinner/Buffalo?

 

Retrospectively (almost always the preferred and inerrant way to view), and btw the negotiating shoe has yet to fall, it appears that Waddell's unpopular move worked out for the best of our team? Sure, if he'd held out a LITTLE BIT longer, he could have gotten more, but I thought then and still do that to get, what 60%, new players on board and pulling in the same direction necessary for an admittedly overall subtalented team, that the distraction that is Skinner had to be eliminated. To my admittedly narrow minded view of my profession, I've always maintained that if a patient questions the way his/her physician renders their treatment, than it's time to change physicians. Ergo, if a head coach's decisions are coming into enough question, than it's time to get a new coach? 

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My Executive Opinion/Summary:

I think they took a huge gamble on the concept that they wanted, what they thought would bring this franchise back to being a winning franchise, and a perception of said player that they thought was preventing this. In the end, it worked. We are there. Would it have happened with the roster that started the season with gone said player and no other changes (hello Nino)? Who knows. It's a what have you done for me lately league. What has GM Wads done for us lately? Well, we are still playing, and playing for the greatest prize in sports. We would be having a much different conversation if BUF and us were switched in the standings. 

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There was a point in this season where it looked like Buffalo and the Canes would dogfight for the last slot and it would have been a bitter pill to swallow if they Skinnered their way into the playoffs at our expense.

 

The way it turned out made it much more palatable and now most can see there can be more to a situation than what the numbers say.  It can be debated of course, but still... the way it turned out means there is a debate.  If it didn't end up this way there wouldn't be a debate and it would have gone ugly to the nth degree.

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4 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

There was interest in Skinner but Skinner controlled where he went. If I remember correctly, there we two teams he wanted to go to and one had cap issues and the other was Buffalo.  My assumption is the cap issue team was Toronto. The cap concern, presumably, was keeping him long term.

 

We were stuck with Buffalo with no negotiating power.  

Ah, yes. The dreaded NTC/NMC. That's a good point and why I dislike those, especially for guys signing as RFA's. Probably torpedoed the return. It's not really fair to hold Skinner responsible for exercising his right, but doesn't mean I can't like him a little less for killing the return.

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After all that has happened we are still talking about Skinner. 😞

 

I’m just glad he’s gone and we are moving onward and upward.

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Can we lock this thread?  Skinner is dead to us now.  There is a "Once they were Canes" thread.

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