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coffeedawgs

New Downtown Arena??

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If there is an Arena downtown, I will not go to games.   It is already a nightmare to go to downtown Raleigh.  Downtown Durham though, as top shelf would say, it is more trendy and hipsterish.   Would go there.

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1 hour ago, coffeedawgs said:

"When is it irresponsible to be here?" - Tom Dundon

 

Should I/we read this as the writing on the wall???

 

And certain posters think that posting move-related items is "trolling...."

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1 hour ago, coffeedawgs said:

"When is it irresponsible to be here?" - Tom Dundon

 

Should I/we read this as the writing on the wall???

Well he didn’t do anything to quiet the cynics who think he only bought the team to relocate it. I assume he came to Raleigh and figured out the arena was not downtown before he bought the team. He might also want to consider that the building was conceived and built originally for N.C. State, which is in West Raleigh, not downtown. 

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17 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

If there is an Arena downtown, I will not go to games.   It is already a nightmare to go to downtown Raleigh.  Downtown Durham though, as top shelf would say, it is more trendy and hipsterish.   Would go there.

I'd go downtown Raleigh but obviously an arena could not be built overnight. TD isn't completely stupid and if he wants to pursue it he better start immediately. The location and assesibility including off highway road construction would have to be built to handle the mass transit overload.The conception,planning an building would take years and probably take us right up to the end of our existing lease. If he wants to take on that endeavor go for it. Just realize it would be 2025 before that plan is realized. TD is it cheaper to have a new arena built in Raleigh or Texas by 2025? Might not even be a consideration as in his own words how long can he stay in the game with his financial losses and team losses before he cant take it anymore. A better solution would be to increase your profitability by increasing the on ice product,then worry about the pretty bells and whistles.

Edited by slapshot02

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20 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

If there is an Arena downtown, I will not go to games.   It is already a nightmare to go to downtown Raleigh.  Downtown Durham though, as top shelf would say, it is more trendy and hipsterish.   Would go there.

 

I thought you were done with our loss to Pittsburgh....

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31 minutes ago, Bonivan said:

Maybe TD thinks that it would be cheaper to build downtown arena and start earning money there then to build winning product on ice

or maybe......

He wants to get out from under the Centennial Authority (probably funding a portion of their salary) and NC State. So, we pay Centennial Authority 3 million a year.  

NC State gets first priority of the schedule, which the Canes use to have first priority

We have to deal with the state fair schedule

NC State gets their fair share of the naming rights despite only having less than half of the home games that the Canes do.

Canes pay 3 million in rent to State's 600k (seems a little off sense the home games arent at a 5 to 1 ratio)

 

 

Downtown arena would allow TD to build a Braves type complex (i say check it out if you can) that would draw business folks for revenue generation year round.  The Battery had equal grossing to the Braves last season.  At a minimum hotels and food would be close to the stadium allowing for a better fan experience.  

 

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Downtown Raleigh is 8 blocks by 6 blocks wide.  Where the heck would you put an 18000 seat arena and parking?  Cmon now, there is no where downtown that this would make any sense.  It would have to be "just oustide of downtown".  Which the current stadium pretty much is(couple miles) .  Dude really needs to focus on hyping us fans up in other ways than outdoor games and downtown arenas that will never happen.  Talk about how your willing to spend big $ this summer on FA's and how hard you are trying to make a trade asap, to keep us in it this season,  for a top scoring guy and you might get a smile out of us. 

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1 hour ago, gocanes0506 said:

 

 

 

Downtown arena would allow TD to build a Braves type complex (i say check it out if you can) that would draw business folks for revenue generation year round.  The Battery had equal grossing to the Braves last season.  At a minimum hotels and food would be close to the stadium allowing for a better fan experience.  

 

Good luck with that. The baseball market and hockey market is like apples and oranges. Hockey is 1/2 the season of baseball, and draws in a minimal fan base. It's not all roses in Atlanta, check out many of the articles regarding the fiscal disaster. Here is one sample.    If TD thinks a new stadium is a better deal and he can get a better deal financially.....go get it.   https://reason.com/blog/2017/04/15/atlanta-braves-new-stadium-is-a-disaster

 

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/qkyk3v/cobb-county-and-the-braves-worst-sports-stadium-deal-ever

Edited by slapshot02

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28 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

It could be a TD negotiating ploy to make sure the Centennial Authority comes through with the upgrades he wants in a timely manner.  Who knows? 

Bingo. This is much more feasible. Remember we couldn't even get investors to invest in the team prior to TD's purchase.  Invest in a new stadium?  And as Danimal38 points out as well... where would this be?  I guess we could dig up some cemetery's. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Downtown,+Raleigh,+NC/@35.7690991,-78.6536707,10180m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ac5f1350474ae3:0x6c27d122fcc22910!8m2!3d35.7822393!4d-78.6285252

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1 hour ago, slapshot02 said:

Good luck with that. The baseball market and hockey market is like apples and oranges. Hockey is 1/2 the season of baseball, and draws in a minimal fan base. It's not all roses in Atlanta, check out many of the articles regarding the fiscal disaster. Here is one sample.    If TD thinks a new stadium is a better deal and he can get a better deal financially.....go get it.   https://reason.com/blog/2017/04/15/atlanta-braves-new-stadium-is-a-disaster

 

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/qkyk3v/cobb-county-and-the-braves-worst-sports-stadium-deal-ever

That blog is that, a blog. The stadium deal might be bad from a negotiating standpoint.  The Battery which is restaurants and shopping located with business lunch driving distance of the IT hub of ATL.  It grossed 300 million in its first year because people come to eat outside of game days throughout the year.

 

That was my point. I don’t like the downtown idea but the current situation isn’t great either.

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At one time, there was thought to put a MLS stadium, seating 22,000 people, in downtown Raleigh. So, theoretically a new NHL style arena could go downtown.

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17 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

That blog is that, a blog. The stadium deal might be bad from a negotiating standpoint.  The Battery which is restaurants and shopping located with business lunch driving distance of the IT hub of ATL.  It grossed 300 million in its first year because people come to eat outside of game days throughout the year.

 

That was my point. I don’t like the downtown idea but the current situation isn’t great either.

Yeah ok, many articles are available for your use. Cobb county took a beating. Again Dundon wants all the shiny toys but he wont pony up for them. Nothing wrong with our existing arena as it was sold out during our good years and no one was complaining about the fan experience. The winning culture drives the experience not a place to eat prior to the game. Small business is coming back within the down town area, but space is not a luxury the city has at its disposal.People complain about concession prices as it is now, add more into that for fine dining? I live 15 mins from the arena and it is very easy access. The same length commute to downtown would easily take twice as long with the lack of road access.The cost of building new roads would be millions let alone no space for an arena.

Edited by slapshot02

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35 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Yeah ok, many articles are available for your use. Cobb county took a beating. Again Dundon wants all the shiny toys but he wont pony up for them. Nothing wrong with our existing arena as it was sold out during our good years and no one was complaining about the fan experience. The winning culture drives the experience not a place to eat prior to the game. Small business is coming back within the down town area, but space is not a luxury the city has at its disposal.People complain about concession prices as it is now, add more into that for fine dining? I live 15 mins from the arena and it is very easy access. The same length commute to downtown would easily take twice as long with the lack of road access.The cost of building new roads would be millions let alone no space for an arena.

The deal from a TD perspective isn’t about how much the taxpayers take it the pants. It is about how much money you can make. In the end I don’t like the idea of moving downtown.  

 

 Luckily i get to enjoy the Braves stadium without having to pay the Cobb County taxes.  

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Exactly, TD wants all the shiny toys but doesn't want to spend a dime. Snake oil was cheap but made the peddlers a lot of money. Beware of used car salesman and snake oil promoters.

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TD would join a long list of pro owners who have conned local populations into spending massive bucks on a new stadium. I'm just totally guessing, but I thought of Lake's idea too. He is not happy with how things went on the scoreboard and probably other things, and is trying to throw some subterfuge out there to keep them off balance. 

 

Personally I think it could go downtown. Of course on the edge of downtown, but that's still downtown. It would be nice for the downtown scene and restaurants, but then it could also cut into concessions, and even the arena club restaurant. The main thing though is why. We have a perfectly good stadium. That's really not that hard to get to, and is on the Durham side of Raleigh for people coming in from that side. 

 

Attendance will not be any better downtown if the on ice product stays inferior, and will build greatly at PNC if it gets better.  The need for a new stadium is not there, and the potential benefits downtown will not exceed the cost. It's subterfuge IMO. Can't blame him for taking a shot at it, but can't see it anytime soon personally. 

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57 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Exactly, TD wants all the shiny toys but doesn't want to spend a dime. Snake oil was cheap but made the peddlers a lot of money. Beware of used car salesman and snake oil promoters.

Seems a little harsh. Every owner tries to get the community to pay as much as they can.  It means they get to pay less. 

 

I dont think TD will have too much leverage in discussions, unlike the Braves. The Canes aren’t overly successful, don’t have a strong draw, don’t create a ton of revenue for the community, and aren’t a fabric of the community.

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So for those not here in the mid 90s....  At that time, the discussion of a downtown arena was very much in the mix.  There were many people who wanted it, mostly for revitalization.  The N&O opinion writers were very much for it.  Made sense for them because they lived in a dying downtown.  For various reasons, it ended up where it ended up.

 

Now, 25+ years later, the discussion makes more sense to me.  Instead of forcing a revitalization around one building that is used only for events, the events from the building can make use of the infrastructure now built up around, and in turn, reinforce the revitalization.  All the discussions of parking, mass transit, where to build, etc. existed then too.  They aren't much different today.  There are problems, but solvable.

 

I'm personally not into it, but I get it.  For me, we just drive up Edwards Mill and to our home in a few minutes.  Downtown will be a pain.  I'm also old.  I can see how events downtown with all the new restaraunts and what have you would work great.  Kids today seem to take work less seriously (good for them!  I'm not joking!), so they cut out and enjoy a big event every now and then.  Take in life.  I like that idea.  If I weren't so damn old and sleepy, it would be something I'd be into too.

 

We'll see.  30 to 40 years seems to be the life of these structures these days (which seems crazy to me), so I could see an itch for something else around 2030.  Now is about the time to start talking about it, as long as it doesn't become a distraction or hostage situation like it has in so many other cities.

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4 hours ago, hopper915 said:

At one time, there was thought to put a MLS stadium, seating 22,000 people, in downtown Raleigh. So, theoretically a new NHL style arena could go downtown.

 

Yeah right.  And Grizzley Adams had a beard.

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Raleigh is a growing city and I think it “might” be doable in the future.  Growing up in Chicago, having to go into the city to see any sporting event was always a PITA but fans will go anywhere if you’re winning. Personally I love driving right up to PNCs front door. The pine forest campus feel (vs skyscrapers 🏙 and city traffic) has always been a nice non-traditional feel I have enjoyed with relative ease. If TD wants a more urban setting I have no issues with that either if is good the economy and levies independence from NC States scheduling.

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