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legend-1

TT re-signed five years, 27 million

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38 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Don't get me wrong, I love Ferland and the increase in toughness overall on the team. Ferland does make his line mates better and it is proven from a stat perspective. I'm just looking at it from a GM perspective that his stats and sustained performance do not merit a pay raise and term over TT. Another note is that he is two years older than TT and there is signs of injuries that may be of some concern. He had a shoulder injury last year and concussion issue this year. His style of play leads to more possibility of injury. I hope they resign him but a 5 year deal over 5.2 mil is a tough ask. I have no doubt he may get it in the UFA market but to the Canes it may not go through. Supposedly the committee has a list of 12 players they wanted to consider and I wish I was privy to that list as it may come into play on who their next target may be and how much they can afford on Ferland.

As you do, I love to spend other people's money, but hey, that's what we do here, isn't it?  I am originally from Hartford, so two of my teams are the Canes (from their Whaler days) and the Yankees.  I am constantly trying to spend the Yankees money judiciously, and by that I don't mean throwing money at every free agent out there.  They took themselves out of the Machado/Harper sweepstakes last winter when they acquired Stanton, but their moves and monies spent this winter have been A+.  As a small market team, the Canes have to compete on a different level, and financial mistakes are not allowed too often.  They made a huge one with Alexander Semin.  Scott Darling is a disappointment, and a relatively expensive one.  Victor Rask too.  I loved them extending Slavin and Pesce, and they have a stable of young players.  I think not signing Ferland will not only have a negative effect on TT and Aho, but it will trickle down to the rest of the lines.  With Fleury/Bean/Mckeon/hopefully Fox on their way, unload the monies invested in Hamilton, Faulk, and try to attach Darling's to on of those deals.  Manage the money by moving the money.  Without even considering what, if anything, is received in return, the team is better off with the same money being spent on Ferland than Hamilton, Faulk, or Darling, considering their replacement options.

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Turbo’s actual salary breakdown:

6.25, 4.25, 5.875, 4.75, and 5.875 in millions each year starting ‘19-20.

 

interesting we didn’t go heavy on the 2nd year as well in order to keep the last 3 a little lower as Svech and Necas will need to be paid.

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50 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

That's cool but his career stats to date do not match TT. He has numerous intangibles that increase his value and raise his line mates play but my GM hat is raising questions. I'll be more than happy if they sign him at or above TT, just think the committee may have some issues.

I'm more concerned about TT having them, but he doesn't seem to have an egotistical bone in his body--much like Ferland. So maybe 5.4 becomes the meeting point. Here's hoping.

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1 hour ago, beboplar said:

I don't live back there and don't get to see them play much, but I am quite surprised to read the comment about Lindholm.  He was asked to wear several hats in Carolina, moving back and forth between RW and C, playing specialty teams and on multiple regular lines.  I think the explosion you see out him this year is from playing a regular role with the same line mates.  I don't think at any time of their respective careers, and this is no slight to TT, I would have taken TT over Lindholm.  To boot, Lindy is a RH shooter, of which this team hosts exactly 1 forward, Justin Williams.

 

I actually was sad when Lindholm was traded, because I thought he was the type of player that CAR needed.  However, he would showed to be the player we see now in CGY, and then would just go on walkabout for long stretches.  It could be the juggling linemates.  But the blame for that goes on the coach, who is now playing him consistently on the same line in CGY.  Perhaps Peters learned from his mistakes in CAR and is doing the right things.  Too bad for us it was a year late.

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37 minutes ago, ironman87 said:

 

I actually was sad when Lindholm was traded, because I thought he was the type of player that CAR needed.  However, he would showed to be the player we see now in CGY, and then would just go on walkabout for long stretches.  It could be the juggling linemates.  But the blame for that goes on the coach, who is now playing him consistently on the same line in CGY.  Perhaps Peters learned from his mistakes in CAR and is doing the right things.  Too bad for us it was a year late.

 

 

At the risk of looking like a conspiracy theorist, i still wonder if Peters wasn't micro-managed to the point where he couldn't make certain decisions, up to and including some of the line decisions.  It might be that rather than learning from his mistakes, he's simply no longer required to be a puppet for his GM.  I could be wrong, but we all know he spoke up on more than one occasion asking for changes that were never made, plus we all know he hinted at Skinner being captain only to have the co-captaincy farce rolled out and see Skins saddled with 3rd- and 4th-liners all season.  I'm not convinced any of that was Peters' doing either.

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1 hour ago, beboplar said:

They made a huge one with Alexander Semin.

 

Grab the razor and the shaving cream. 

 

On second thought, skip the shaving cream.

 

Who wants to do the honors?

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I’m really glad Turbo is signed. The committee may have a list of potential players they like but IMO they need to pay Ferland. He’s already here, brings what we need, and WANTS to be here. Get it done committee. Please! 😬

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2 hours ago, beboplar said:

They made a huge one with Alexander Semin. 

 

Welcome to the Canes board.  That being said, never, and I do mean NEVER, use that name around here again.  He is referred to as HWSNBN (he who shall not be named)

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I'm more concerned about TT having them, but he doesn't seem to have an egotistical bone in his body--much like Ferland.

 

I'm kinda afraid to ask, but when you get off the phone with Donnie, fill us in on that one.

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Hey, say it loud and say it proud. Alexander Semin. I’m pretty sure this is the last year we actually pay him his buyout. Do not bury your head in the sand and pretend that mistake never happened. Because it did and we have to learn from it. Semin. SEMIN!!! Is this triggering anyone? SEMIN!!!!!!!

 

Anyways, interested in the weird payouts, not surprised to see a big first year in the 6m range. TT has been one of the best acquisitions we’ve made in the last decade and it’s a bit of a calming thing to have at least one of those three pending UFAs extended. Also probably helps our case with extending Aho. It’s been really exciting to watch Teuvo Teravainen consistently improve that last few years and now seems to be our best winger, definitely top-6. 

 

This was a good day for us

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7 minutes ago, SuckaPunchd said:

Hey, say it loud and say it proud. Alexander Semin. I’m pretty sure this is the last year we actually pay him his buyout. Do not bury your head in the sand and pretend that mistake never happened. Because it did and we have to learn from it. Semin. SEMIN!!! Is this triggering anyone? SEMIN!!!!!!!

 

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33 minutes ago, SuckaPunchd said:

Hey, say it loud and say it proud. Alexander Semin. I’m pretty sure this is the last year we actually pay him his buyout. Do not bury your head in the sand and pretend that mistake never happened. Because it did and we have to learn from it. Semin. SEMIN!!! Is this triggering anyone? SEMIN!!!!!!!

 

 

Sadly, the payout is through and including the 20-21 season.  I'm sure it pokes TD and DW in the ribs every time they open their spreadsheets.

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2 hours ago, wxray1 said:

 

Sadly, the payout is through and including the 20-21 season.  I'm sure it pokes TD and DW in the ribs every time they open their spreadsheets.

That appears to be the case.  Sports franchises make mistakes.  The Red Sox have made HUGE ones signing Carl Crawford for $144M and Panda for $95M and still gone on to success from there.  It is imperative with small market sports franchises to not make too many of these.  Semin's was one for sure.  Rask's was pretty darn bad, but never say never, they were able to unload it. Now Darling's looms as the loser.  I say send it the way the Red Sox did with Crawford's;  they packaged it with Adrian Gonzalez's good deal and sent him packing to the Dodgers.  Package Darling with either Hamilton or Faulk and subtract for the return of talent.

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We will have to give away a pretty good player, as Chicago did with Turbo, to get anyone to take Darling’s contract, which would be a straight salary dump. The difference is Chicago was over the cap and needed to dump a bad contract, and we are still near the floor. I do see signing Turbo as an omen that Aho wants to be here. Both Finns and played on a line together 2 years. 

 

On Ferland, if he is looking for more than 5 years, that’s a problem. But I would feel like we lost Lindholm for very little if we don’t get him signed. I think one difference between Lindholm here and in Calgary is they slotted him between 2 guys already producing like top line players (including the one we should have drafted instead of Lindholm) after he had a few years to mature. Now that we have Aho and TT playing at a top line level, Lindholm on that line might have blossomed here. But he was never given the chance to play with first line players. Heck, except for E. Staal at his peak years (before Lindy was on the team), we didn’t have a center the equal of Monahan, and I’m not sure we’ve had a winger equal to Gaudreau, including Skinner. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

At the risk of looking like a conspiracy theorist, i still wonder if Peters wasn't micro-managed to the point where he couldn't make certain decisions, up to and including some of the line decisions.  It might be that rather than learning from his mistakes, he's simply no longer required to be a puppet for his GM.  I could be wrong, but we all know he spoke up on more than one occasion asking for changes that were never made, plus we all know he hinted at Skinner being captain only to have the co-captaincy farce rolled out and see Skins saddled with 3rd- and 4th-liners all season.  I'm not convinced any of that was Peters' doing either.

 

It might be that the head muckity mucks in Calgary have no problem changing coaches who don't produce.

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1 hour ago, bluedevilcane said:

We will have to give away a pretty good player, as Chicago did with Turbo, to get anyone to take Darling’s contract, which would be a straight salary dump. The difference is Chicago was over the cap and needed to dump a bad contract, and we are still near the floor. I do see signing Turbo as an omen that Aho wants to be here. Both Finns and played on a line together 2 years. 

 

On Ferland, if he is looking for more than 5 years, that’s a problem. But I would feel like we lost Lindholm for very little if we don’t get him signed. I think one difference between Lindholm here and in Calgary is they slotted him between 2 guys already producing like top line players (including the one we should have drafted instead of Lindholm) after he had a few years to mature. Now that we have Aho and TT playing at a top line level, Lindholm on that line might have blossomed here. But he was never given the chance to play with first line players. Heck, except for E. Staal at his peak years (before Lindy was on the team), we didn’t have a center the equal of Monahan, and I’m not sure we’ve had a winger equal to Gaudreau, including Skinner. 

 

 

To your first point, packaging Darling with Hamilton and diminishing the return value is one option to create salary space to accommodate Ferland's extension.  

 

I am not sure a line of TT, Aho, and Lindholm would have been that effective.  There is a lot of speed and skill there, but even Wayne Gretzky needed a power forward to compliment Gretzky and whatever talented winger he happened to be playing with.  That is what has stood out this season since both Ferland and Martinook have hit the scene, and maybe shall be embellished by NN's presence.

 

The Canes need to spend wisely.  They have a bunch of NHL defensemen in Slavin, Pesce, de Haan, and TVR, and suitable guys to repack Hamilton and Faulk in Fleury, Bean, McKeown, and hopefully Fox, so that deleting over $10M in salary in potential trades of Hamilton and Faulkin order to sign Ferland is a more forward thinking strategy than trading Ferland (for what, a high draft pick?)

Edited by beboplar

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Getting TT on a team-friendly deal should help signing Ferland. Another thing is moving Darling for nothing or trying to move his salary, or more likely just buying him out. As I've posted elsewhere, moving signed NHL D men out and entry level or lower level guys up, will also move out some money. 

 

But I'd also point out that NN, using mostly Rask's money, is a relative gain in that this is one more guy we don't need to go out and sign, and we moved most of Rask's salary out. 

 

I don't know what Aho will take, but there really ought to be money to make the D for trade (s) and sign Ferland. The questions are value and Ferland's wants. If Ferland wants to play here, we should overpay him. But we can't way way overpay him. Not because we don't have the cap or money, but because it's just a bad thing to do. 

 

So, to me it's not so much the absolute cash, but the relative value can't be way off, and Ferland has to want to be here. 

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i think its not a bad deal he has tons of talent but some nights he does nothing. i would like to see him play hard like Aho you dont need to fly around hitting ppl to play hard. but dont look like ur scared to get in the play cause you can get hit. 

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