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canes2017

Dundon Suspends operations in AAF

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1 hour ago, canes2017 said:
lbert BreerVerified account @AlbertBreer
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Perception inside the AAF is that Hurricanes owner Tom Dundon bought a majority stake in the league simply for the gambling app being developed. Source: "Dundon got the technology he wanted and he's now minus one rather large headache."

if that is true, it must be an awesome APP.  70 million for an APP?  Im sure he could have built something better for a 35th of the cost.  

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2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

if that is true, it must be an awesome APP.  70 million for an APP?  Im sure he could have built something better for a 35th of the cost.  

Could also be media ties and the value of getting the "first foot in the door" of the legal sports betting phenomenon.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/sports/football/alliance-of-american-football-betting-aaf.html

"the A.A.F. has agreements with CBS Sports’s networks, TNT and Turner’s B/R Live streaming service."

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This move by Dundon smells. He is putting 100s if not thousands of people out of work. At least let the season play out, reaccess and them let in other investors if you want out. Reports had stated other investors were being courted before Dundon hopped aboard. This would make me worry about the Canes staying in Raleigh, he could just pull the plug at a moments notice. Hopefully, the AAF will not fold, but this smells bad.

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58 minutes ago, runyon27 said:

This move by Dundon smells. He is putting 100s if not thousands of people out of work. At least let the season play out, reaccess and them let in other investors if you want out. Reports had stated other investors were being courted before Dundon hopped aboard. This would make me worry about the Canes staying in Raleigh, he could just pull the plug at a moments notice. Hopefully, the AAF will not fold, but this smells bad.

You say this because you don’t have skin in the game.  I wouldn’t shell out millions to keep something running for a season just to cut anyways.  

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I wonder if it could be a heavy handed negotiating ploy?  Wasn't the league trying to forge agreements with the NHL Players Association that they felt were necessary for success?

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

I wonder if it could be a heavy handed negotiating ploy?  Wasn't the league trying to forge agreements with the NHL Players Association that they felt were necessary for success?

 

That is a red herring.

 

 Yes, he was trying to get NFL practice squad players to be allowed in AAF- but as that is a "collective bargain" part of the CBA with owners- nothing could be done about it until the next CBA in 2 years- surely nothing was going to happen in weeks.

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22 hours ago, runyon27 said:

This move by Dundon smells. He is putting 100s if not thousands of people out of work. At least let the season play out, reaccess and them let in other investors if you want out. Reports had stated other investors were being courted before Dundon hopped aboard. This would make me worry about the Canes staying in Raleigh, he could just pull the plug at a moments notice. Hopefully, the AAF will not fold, but this smells bad.

That’s just occurring to people now? I predicted the day he bought us that he was playing a long game, Target Houston.

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Tech acquires companies all the time. Partially for its assets (physical and human), but largely for the preferred contacts/contracts.

Edited by caneswincup

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13 hours ago, caneswincup said:

Tech acquires companies all the time. Partially for its assets (physical and human), but largely for the preferred contacts/contracts.

 

Agree for tech world- but Sports is different. It's an extremely Specialized field, with no recourse like a tech company to get another job in field. Dundon basically wiped up the dreams and aspirations of 1,000's  for a preferred contract/app. That is IMO pretty cold hearted and the stories hearing about how players came back from meeting all their stuff in lobbies, no money for rides home, vendors still owed millions, just does not sit well. He easily could have finished season. 

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51 minutes ago, canes2017 said:

 

Agree for tech world- but Sports is different. It's an extremely Specialized field, with no recourse like a tech company to get another job in field. Dundon basically wiped up the dreams and aspirations of 1,000's  for a preferred contract/app. That is IMO pretty cold hearted and the stories hearing about how players came back from meeting all their stuff in lobbies, no money for rides home, vendors still owed millions, just does not sit well. He easily could have finished season. 

By comparing it with tech companies I meant that he may well have made the acquisition solely to get access to the app and/or business connections. Of course, in tech, reputable companies often put in a freeze with regards to eliminating staff from acquired company for a set amount of time. Based on his tenure here, I don’t think he looks at anything other than how it affects him, so not surprised how people were treated.

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On 4/4/2019 at 7:40 AM, caneswincup said:

By comparing it with tech companies I meant that he may well have made the acquisition solely to get access to the app and/or business connections. Of course, in tech, reputable companies often put in a freeze with regards to eliminating staff from acquired company for a set amount of time. Based on his tenure here, I don’t think he looks at anything other than how it affects him, so not surprised how people were treated.

 

No doubt..and that is why doesn't sit well or IMO bode well for negotiations with NC state and centennial for a new lease at PNC arena. If he just wanted APP, i bet the Original owners may have even split off the assest and sell League to Someone who wanted league to keep running and give Dundon the APP.( he was not the only one bidding for the league when made the deal)

Edited by canes2017

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Should rename this thread to "Tin-foil hats for sale". 

 

You are basing him moving the Canes to Houston from an article that leads with the word "Perception" on an opinion tweet, from what would be considered disgruntled employees, that the boss spent $70 million so he could get an app that processes data quickly.  Gee, I bet nobody else could write an app to do the same thing, with more features in about 4 months and a couple of hundred thousand dollars.

 

:wacko::facepalm:

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Uh only person in thread mentioning moving to houston was you bambam- may want to check where that "tin foil hat" is located.

 

The "point" of thread actually nothing to do with houston- had to do with the cold hearted way, dundon  shuttered an entire league 2 weeks from end, after buying it just a month before claiming " I bought this league and now they are in sound financial position for the next 3 years".. and the perception only bought the league for the gambling APP

Edited by canes2017

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On 4/3/2019 at 5:30 PM, caneswincup said:

That’s just occurring to people now? I predicted the day he bought us that he was playing a long game, Target Houston.

@canes2017 - You want to re-read the thread?

 

He is a businessman, not a charity.  He fronted the money to keep them running, when it became clear they were not going to get rights to NFL contracted players, he bailed and rightly so.

Edited by bambamcanefan

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4 hours ago, bambamcanefan said:

@canes2017 - You want to re-read the thread?

 

He is a businessman, not a charity.  He fronted the money to keep them running, when it became clear they were not going to get rights to NFL contracted players, he bailed and rightly so.

 

That point, that they weren't going to get the rights to NFL practice-squad players, should have been patently obvious to anyone with the few minutes to check with a sports lawyer (they have 'em, you know, and TD as an NHL team owner probably has a few on staff) to see if that point was in the CBA.

 

To me, it seems like that would have been the first thing TD asked the AAF founders. If he didn't, he didn't do his due diligence properly. If he did, it sounds like he saw an opportunity to obtain some asset if the league came to no good end. Otherwise, why insist that one be given ownership for one's investment? The idea of "silent partners" who invest in a business but don't take part in managing it isn't exactly a new, revolutionary idea.

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16 hours ago, bambamcanefan said:

@canes2017 - You want to re-read the thread?

 

He is a businessman, not a charity.  He fronted the money to keep them running, when it became clear they were not going to get rights to NFL contracted players, he bailed and rightly so.

 That was one person not everyone..

 

And as I posted before, that NFL argument a red herrring-  The size of the NFL Practice squad and their ability to play elsewhere, part of the CBA of the NFL- so of course you could not have that until 2022 under  the new NFL CBA. ( or if the union could get the owners to agree to a change in by-laws before- and good luck with that)

 

Now if you want to say Dundon did not realize this when bought the league- well then shame on him and his lawyers for not doing proper due diligence- 

Edited by canes2017

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13 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Pretty shakey investment. How could you not know the NFL was a huge hurdle and that you were not going to own the technology?  Players left on the hook for housing cost and medical expenses.https://deadspin.com/the-aafs-sudden-collapse-left-players-high-and-dry-with-1833813021

 

That's the real sad thing about this - as a developmental league, the AAF didn't pay much, compared to the NFL (all players were on standard, three-year $250K contracts, as I understand it), but they did provide housing and medical insurance. Now, those players are unemployed, presumably without the insurance that was promised to them, and without the safety net of a huge contract to cushion the impact of injuries.

 

The real issue, one that maybe the Ebersols and the other founders of the AAF should have thought about, was trying to start a developmental league in the current environment. The recent attempts to start alternative football leagues have been pretty dismal failures, mainly because the NFL is the 900-pound gorilla in the room. Yes, the CFL exists, but I can't see them chipping in much to make a developmental league stable (even though many of the AAF players might be able to make a go of it above the border) since they're barely stable themselves. That leaves the NFL, and you just know that the NFL owners would rather have college football be their developmental league(s) so they don't have to spend any money on player development.

 

Unless something smacks the NFL in the face and gets their attention in a way that affects the league and the owners personally (like in the pocketbook), nothing will change.

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4 minutes ago, JonKerfoot said:

 

That's the real sad thing about this - as a developmental league, the AAF didn't pay much, compared to the NFL (all players were on standard, three-year $250K contracts, as I understand it), but they did provide housing and medical insurance. Now, those players are unemployed, presumably without the insurance that was promised to them, and without the safety net of a huge contract to cushion the impact of injuries.

 

The real issue, one that maybe the Ebersols and the other founders of the AAF should have thought about, was trying to start a developmental league in the current environment. The recent attempts to start alternative football leagues have been pretty dismal failures, mainly because the NFL is the 900-pound gorilla in the room. Yes, the CFL exists, but I can't see them chipping in much to make a developmental league stable (even though many of the AAF players might be able to make a go of it above the border) since they're barely stable themselves. That leaves the NFL, and you just know that the NFL owners would rather have college football be their developmental league(s) so they don't have to spend any money on player development.

 

Unless something smacks the NFL in the face and gets their attention in a way that affects the league and the owners personally (like in the pocketbook), nothing will change.

Agreed and the point that the technology was never TD'S to own is alarming if he thought that was part of his acquisition.

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That leaves the NFL, and you just know that the NFL owners would rather have college football be their developmental league(s) so they don't have to spend any money on player development.

 

Spot on- that is why the NFL doesn't want/help a "minor league" or development league, College football is that and as both hugely successful- why rock that boat? Unless something drastic happens that no one currently anticipates- the college/pro system will continue to reap their billions and remain the same

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35 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Pretty shakey investment. How could you not know the NFL was a huge hurdle and that you were not going to own the technology?  Players left on the hook for housing cost and medical expenses.https://deadspin.com/the-aafs-sudden-collapse-left-players-high-and-dry-with-1833813021

 Those stories so Sad.. shame on Ebersol, Polian, Dundon and whoever else headed this mess. To not have the class to at least foot the hotel bills, help players get back home, after screwing them on ending the season, just cold hearted and bad business IMO.

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And now the multiple lawsuits start- that usually only end up with the lawyers making money..

 

Former AAF employees allege defunct pro football league violated labor law

 

heir suit charges that the federal Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification, or WARN, Act required a large business such as the AAF to give at least 60 days’ notice before making mass layoffs. There was no such notice before the AAF’s abrupt suspension, said Byron Perkins, one of three Birmingham employment attorneys representing Robeson and Swope in the suit.

“This is exactly what the WARN Act was designed to prevent — a company just coming in and shutting down without giving their employees any warning whatsoever,” Perkins said.

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/04/10/former-aaf-employees-allege-defunct-pro-football-league-violated-labor-law/

 

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